Porsche 944 Lux - Am I Mad?
Discussion
Hi to all PH's, this is my first post and after reading your many brilliant Porsche related postings I need some quick advice. After searching for my first Porker (a Boxster or 911) for the last six months and being scared witless by the M96/IMS issue I have decided to use part of my budget and ease my way into Porker ownership.
I spotted this 944 on ebay and have loved these since I first saw one. Having spoken to the owner I've arranged to go and see it tomorrow. It has been well looked after with lots of work done including a head rebuild at 120k and this is reflected in the price. The only thing putting me off is the moon and back mileage at 197k. The owner is an engineer who races MGF's so knows his way around a spanner and has kept this car in good order. At this price it would be worth buying and running for a year on classic insurance as a way into the world of Porsche ownership. The money i was going to use for a warranty against a used boxter/911 would be enough to sort any issues short of a complete engine failure and I'd have plenty left from my original budget anyway. It's a round trip of 140 miles to see the car so I don't want to waste my time. Has anyone else bought a car with such high mileage or does anyone have any other advice on 944 ownership at this end of the price range?
I need answers quick guys!
original ad:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271143007680?ssPageName=...
Cheers,
Dan
I spotted this 944 on ebay and have loved these since I first saw one. Having spoken to the owner I've arranged to go and see it tomorrow. It has been well looked after with lots of work done including a head rebuild at 120k and this is reflected in the price. The only thing putting me off is the moon and back mileage at 197k. The owner is an engineer who races MGF's so knows his way around a spanner and has kept this car in good order. At this price it would be worth buying and running for a year on classic insurance as a way into the world of Porsche ownership. The money i was going to use for a warranty against a used boxter/911 would be enough to sort any issues short of a complete engine failure and I'd have plenty left from my original budget anyway. It's a round trip of 140 miles to see the car so I don't want to waste my time. Has anyone else bought a car with such high mileage or does anyone have any other advice on 944 ownership at this end of the price range?
I need answers quick guys!
original ad:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271143007680?ssPageName=...
Cheers,
Dan
Edited by betabandidos on Saturday 16th February 13:40
My wife has a 944 as a sunday car, with 27000 miles on it, she loves it, she has a new hot hatch for every day but for anything with out traffic she uses the Porsche, had it 3 years didn't get used enougth by the previous owner so had a few minor electric problem, but once it was sorted it has only needed servicing, which is done by a local specialist and is cheaper then my main dealer charges on my new Toyota, but the best bit is I have an offer on the table for 4000pound more than I paid for it, which if I sell will make it the cheapest car I've owned ever.
There are many many 944s around with displayed mileages much lower than what they've actually covered. When they came out they were arguably one of the best everyday sports cars available and could take lots of regular use pounding motorways in decent comfort. So if someone did 50,000 miles in 3 years which affected the value of car compared to a 25,000 mile example there was an obvious enticement to make it appear the same. This was all before electronic MOT records or OPC records (the network still isn't linked now!), so proving/disproving actual mileage wasn't easy, even at the time, never mind 1/4 century later.
I worked with a couple of guys who both bought 944s in 1989 - one a 1983 car with 90k and one a 1984 with 75k which he was convinced was lower than the car had actually done (although he may not have made a big point of this to the insurers when it got nicked). If those cars are still around then I'd imagine that they've done quite a few more miles in the intervening 24 years.
I think when buying it's wise to assume that any 944 without a complete end-to-end history file has had a "mileage adjustment" at some point in its life. If the car you've found has a provable 197,000 then to me that's better than any non-provable figure, but really it's irrelevant either way - condition is paramount and from the listing that looks very nice.
I worked with a couple of guys who both bought 944s in 1989 - one a 1983 car with 90k and one a 1984 with 75k which he was convinced was lower than the car had actually done (although he may not have made a big point of this to the insurers when it got nicked). If those cars are still around then I'd imagine that they've done quite a few more miles in the intervening 24 years.
I think when buying it's wise to assume that any 944 without a complete end-to-end history file has had a "mileage adjustment" at some point in its life. If the car you've found has a provable 197,000 then to me that's better than any non-provable figure, but really it's irrelevant either way - condition is paramount and from the listing that looks very nice.
Thank you for all the postings so far ladies and gents, keep'em coming. Very reassuring I have to say and a breath of fresh air after reading about blown 996 Engines for the last six months.
I knew I could rely on you guys! Any daily driver 944 owners out there who'd care to share their experiences?
I will definitely go and see the car tomorrow and let you all know how I get on plus posting some eye candy pics.
Cheers,
D
I knew I could rely on you guys! Any daily driver 944 owners out there who'd care to share their experiences?
I will definitely go and see the car tomorrow and let you all know how I get on plus posting some eye candy pics.
Cheers,
D
That's a fine looking 944, with the big belt service out of the way for a couple of years. You could pay half as much for one, but then spend the thick end of a grand on getting the belts and water pump done alone. Always worth paying a bit more up-front for a better example, and buying from an enthusiast.
The other potential large bills would be the clutch, so check how old that is, and dealing with rusty bodywork. It looks great in the pictures, but you want to look inside the sills to be certain, and get under the car on a ramp in an ideal world. You can pop the black vent in the door pillar and get a camera or phone inside to see the inside of the sills; if it's perfect inside buy it immediately. Some surface rust is usual, and easy to treat. Lots of rust would be a bigger job, and if you can see the road through the sills run a mile.
Other than that it's just a fairly simple old car, so as long as it starts, goes and stops well then it should be a safe bet.
We used to suggest keeping a grand back as a contigency fund on a Lux. Any car nearing 30 years old will have some issues, but the 944 is arguably the best-built car of it's period, as well as a cracking drive and more practical than a 911/Boxster. Loads more info on the PCGB and Tipec forums more specific to the cars as well.
Oh, the mileage? So long as the current condition and recent history are good then forget it. It'll soon be over the 200K mark, which might put a few buyers off in the future, but as has been said many have uncertain mileages, and a car with lower miles could easily be in worse condition. Mechanically they go on for ever if looked after, and parts are plentiful and cheap. The big expense will be restoring a rusty shell, and repainting it, so that's the key to buying a good one.
The other potential large bills would be the clutch, so check how old that is, and dealing with rusty bodywork. It looks great in the pictures, but you want to look inside the sills to be certain, and get under the car on a ramp in an ideal world. You can pop the black vent in the door pillar and get a camera or phone inside to see the inside of the sills; if it's perfect inside buy it immediately. Some surface rust is usual, and easy to treat. Lots of rust would be a bigger job, and if you can see the road through the sills run a mile.
Other than that it's just a fairly simple old car, so as long as it starts, goes and stops well then it should be a safe bet.
We used to suggest keeping a grand back as a contigency fund on a Lux. Any car nearing 30 years old will have some issues, but the 944 is arguably the best-built car of it's period, as well as a cracking drive and more practical than a 911/Boxster. Loads more info on the PCGB and Tipec forums more specific to the cars as well.
Oh, the mileage? So long as the current condition and recent history are good then forget it. It'll soon be over the 200K mark, which might put a few buyers off in the future, but as has been said many have uncertain mileages, and a car with lower miles could easily be in worse condition. Mechanically they go on for ever if looked after, and parts are plentiful and cheap. The big expense will be restoring a rusty shell, and repainting it, so that's the key to buying a good one.
That's extremely helpful Paul especially the point about the sills, I'll be sure to check them over.
Really looking forward to seeing the car now after all of the positive feedback. Main thing I'm worried about now is a local PH'er swooping in and buying her now I've posted the eBay link. I'm sure you guys wouldn't stiff a newbie PH'er though!
Keep the advice coming though everyone, still time before I schlep across in the morning.
Cheers,
D
Really looking forward to seeing the car now after all of the positive feedback. Main thing I'm worried about now is a local PH'er swooping in and buying her now I've posted the eBay link. I'm sure you guys wouldn't stiff a newbie PH'er though!
Keep the advice coming though everyone, still time before I schlep across in the morning.
Cheers,
D
Art0ir said:
I actually came into the Porsche forum for the first time to find some information on these after just spotting one of these advertised locally! Its 1983 so I'm very interested to see how your viewing goes. Are they a reasonable daily?
Personally, I'd go for a leter "oval-dash" series two Lux with the power steering if it was an everyday car, but if you don't mind heavier parking work then they are a steal at current prices.As an alternative to an early Lux, also look for a 924S; it's the same running gear in a lighter body, and they sell for peanuts. A realy nice one would be just as good as an early 944 lux.
I've had my S2 for 14 years as a daily driver and it's now up to 210,000 miles with no major issues. On average it costs me £1k-£1.5k a year on servicing and repairs depending on what my mechanic advises and it just keeps ploughing on in all weathers. I know several other owners in the Club who have cars well over 200,000 miles, they are built to be used and are hewn from solid rock.
The car in your ad sounds like a good one but you won't know until you see it in the flesh. As others have said, inspect the sills and wing bottoms carefully. Spend money on it when it needs it and it will keep on running and not lose you any money like a modern unreliable Porsche will
The car in your ad sounds like a good one but you won't know until you see it in the flesh. As others have said, inspect the sills and wing bottoms carefully. Spend money on it when it needs it and it will keep on running and not lose you any money like a modern unreliable Porsche will
Guys you are the best! Brilliant feedback and for a spanner novice like myself some awesomely easy tips on what to check the 944 for to ensure it is not a lemon.
Trucking over there in the morning with wife and sprogs to check it out, so I'll post a full inspection report tomorrow night whether I buy it or not.
Cheers for the feedback to all.
Dan
Trucking over there in the morning with wife and sprogs to check it out, so I'll post a full inspection report tomorrow night whether I buy it or not.
Cheers for the feedback to all.
Dan
People say look at the sills, but this wont necessarily help you. Sills which show only slight signs of rust mean a car which will need a lot of work.
Better to look inside the sills fitst. Do this by removing the grille in the trailing door shut. It clicks out although it may be difficult to remove. When this is out look inside and towards the rear. Use a small powerful torch and your eyes, or a borescope, or even a mobile phone held inside to take photographs.
The second important area to look at is the rear of the sill under the car, where the torsion tube mounts. You can only check this by getting underneath the car, but you have to because corrosion here can be terminal. The area is difficult to describe, so I have edited a photo that I found on the internet.
Better to look inside the sills fitst. Do this by removing the grille in the trailing door shut. It clicks out although it may be difficult to remove. When this is out look inside and towards the rear. Use a small powerful torch and your eyes, or a borescope, or even a mobile phone held inside to take photographs.
The second important area to look at is the rear of the sill under the car, where the torsion tube mounts. You can only check this by getting underneath the car, but you have to because corrosion here can be terminal. The area is difficult to describe, so I have edited a photo that I found on the internet.
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