2000 era Celica - Any good as a track/B-Road car?

[NotDave]

As per title really folks, I've been looking for a cheap fun replacement for the Mondeo and noticed that 99-2003 Celica VVTi 140s are dirt cheap as long as you don't want the body-kitted specials.

140bhp, leather seats, climate control and a comfortable cabin all appeal.

Plus they're dirt cheap to insure for me for some reason, MPG ain't too shabby and providing it hasn't had "1 lady owner" they seem to last well.

I'd use it for a minimal commute (5miles a day) and then at weekends it'd be B-road blasting and maybe 4 track-days a year.

Are they cheap for a reason, or over-looked by the masses and a bit of a bargain?


Thanks in advance.

[danjama]

I would definitely say bit of a bargain.

I've never owned one, but been in one a couple of times.

Decent acceleration and noise, quite low and tidy handling. Nice to look at too.

Saying all of that, there are cars i'd pick over one.

Such as an MR2!

[RedAndy]

they aren't SLOW, but then they aint fast either. I think everyting that is said about the GT86 is true of the Gen7 Celica too. It is a great handling car though... you start to take roundabouts at 50 thnking ooh that's quick.. then 60, then 70 and it doesn't come unstuck.

Needs revs to move and keep it moving though - it has no torque.

190 is better as it has TC (and more power obviously).

and yes I had a 140!

for the price they are it's a steal!

[johnyboy1976]

140 version is painfully slow - yes handling is decent but they are just not fast enough and a total lack of tuning parts for the 1ZZFE engine means getting more out of it is very difficult.
190 - 2ZZGE engine is better but you have to rev the knackers off of it to get anywhere as " lift " doesnt happen till 6200rpm and its painfully short of torque. But thanks to se7en motorsport there is a plethora of tuning options for this engine. Quite a few cars over on celica club run S/C conversions and one is putting out nearly 420bhp. But then you need new brakes , coiloers list goes on and on.
Good cars for the money but deff not track cars as by the time you have spent ££££ getting it sorted you could have had something more fit for purose.

[NotDave]

Thanks chaps.

MR2 are a as at 6ft7 I just can't fit

Celica make sense as they're cheap & plentiful.... Plus insurance is easy!

A 190 is a as I need a "snotter" so to speak not something showy.

Would probably just run a 140 as it came but on good rubber & brakes!

Rev happy appeals as that's what I like

[JohnDuh]

I've been driving a 190 for the last 7 years, actually 2 since i re-bought one after the first on got crushed by a freelander.

They are indeed hard to unstuck, have a nice rear axle that digs in in corners giving you a bit of a rear drive feel.
Engine wise, i'd personally go for the 190 since the VVTI-L is really nice and makes the car acceptably fast :-)

The only downside to the car is it's FWD, but that's a personal preference.

So in any case go for it an enjoy

[NotDave]

Thanks, FWD doesn't bother me at all, as long as there's not too much under steer.

190 is a no go as most are out my budget and too good to use for what I want.

Was thinking of leggy 140 with plenty of papers, then put it on a diet.

[cornet]

Great car, love mine although I have the T-Sport but below 6200RPM it's pretty much the same power as the 140.

Good points:

• Excellent driving position
• Handles great for a FWD car
• Good fun on B-Roads
• Fast enough for most things

Bad points:
Watch out for Oil consumption on pre 08/2002 models due to a problem with the piston ring design. Using good quality Oil and servicing it regularly will help keep this at bay. If you can find post 08/2002 (i.e. the facelift) then you won't have to worry as they made some changes to the engine.

Brakes feel a bit spongy stops fine, just quite a bit of travel. I currently run EBC Red Stuff pads on mine which were much better than stock however I've just bought and fitted one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Celica-2000-2005-ZZ... and it's made much more difference than I expected. If you email the guy direct he'll send them out for $49.99 delivered - PM me and I'll send over the details.

[NotDave]

Thanks, when we say painfully slow, how bad are we talking?

Re: seating position, they good even at 6ft7?

[NotDave]

Just had a scout on eBay... 2002 190s for £1500-£1900

[cornet]

NotDave said:

Thanks, when we say painfully slow, how bad are we talking?

Specs are : 0-60 is 8.7 seconds, top out 127 MPH.

I wouldn't say they are painfully slow at all (but then it depends on what you're comparing it against)

Plenty of power for overtaking on motorways and I often overtake on B-Roads in my T-Sport without having to hit 6200RPM. If anything the 140 is slightly quicker than the 190/T-Sport when it's below 6200RPM.

NotDave said:

Re: seating position, they good even at 6ft7?

I'm 6'2" and don't have the seat right back. I would imaging it would be fine for you but maybe worth going and test driving one to find out.

NotDave said:

Just had a scout on eBay... 2002 190s for £1500-£1900

Not bad at all. Check that the aggressive cams kick in at 6200RPM and also replace the lift bolts if they haven't been done. £2.50 worth of parts about 30min work.

Edited by cornet on Tuesday 19th February 18:52

[NotDave]

Thanks very much, I'd heard good things about the seating position.

Re: power.. Small & revvy is my preferred type.

Previously had 200sx running low 300bhp, a MG ZR with 125bhp from the 1400cc lump.

Celica would replace the current snotter, an 1800cc petrol mk3 Mondeo.

[Mastodon2]

I'd definitely go with a 190. I work with a bloke who has one and it's a nice car, the engine isn't as good as a Type R unit, but it's still decent. As with Type Rs, ignore the "it has no torque" stuff, it won't pull like a train from 1800rpm in any gear like a big V8, but use the gearbox and the rev range properly and you'll have no problems at all.

Fit a decent exhaust and induction kit for extra grins, they don't sound too bad, these Toyotas.

[NotDave]

Thanks, will see if there's much insurance difference.

Bugger all torque doesn't worry me, what I'm used to.

Exhaust/induction mods were always a plan.

[RedAndy]

MrT got the exhaust and induction pretty spot on... "improving them" will normally lead to less power... it certainly did on the gen 6, and as these engines are very highly developed, I would imagine it's the same. tbh the 140 has a nice tip and a fruity sound, so wy would you want to change it anyway?

go for the 6 spoke fondmetal wheels as they are the nicest - not IMHO, just fact!!!

It also looks gash without a spoiler, but avoid the TRD high wing, avoid the standard boomerang, hunt out the uncommon pointy cornered one as it really suits the angles of the car.

as I said, it has no torque, but youhave to ride the wave of power at high revs... if you do it is quite nippy.

i think you mentioned understeer. lols, not in a Gen 7 unless you are REALLY flying!

you're spot on though - it's a cheap car but a great satisfying thing to steer. and the prices make it a bargain. what you waiting for?!

190 option: can you get software to adjust the lift timing like you can with a VTEC?

[cornet]

RedAndy said:

MrT got the exhaust and induction pretty spot on... "improving them" will normally lead to less power... it certainly did on the gen 6, and as these engines are very highly developed, I would imagine it's the same. tbh the 140 has a nice tip and a fruity sound, so wy would you want to change it anyway?

Some exhausts can make it sound a bit nicer but you would get any extra power out of it

RedAndy said:

i think you mentioned understeer. lols, not in a Gen 7 unless you are REALLY flying!

They will understeer if provoked but then most FWD cars will. I've found tyre choice to make a massive difference, currently running Conti-Sport 3s on mine.

RedAndy said:

190 option: can you get software to adjust the lift timing like you can with a VTEC?

I believe it's possible but not advisable. Toyota set the engine up perfectly, you won't get any more power without fitting a supercharger to it and that's not a cheap option.

If you go the supercharger route the these are the people to talk to http://www.se7enmotorsports.co.uk/

[NotDave]

Thanks, so in essence a post 2002, 190bhp car without the frills ... Plenty of history and be open re:spec, colour, miles...

That the best plan?

[cornet]

NotDave said:

Thanks, so in essence a post 2002, 190bhp car without the frills ... Plenty of history and be open re:spec, colour, miles...

That the best plan?

If you're going for the 140bhp then get post 08/2002 (the facelift). If it's the 190 then don't worry about age


For reference here is the difference difference between the pre/post facelift:



Facelift version is on the right.


Happy hunting

[NotDave]

Thanks, think insurance & budget will be deciders

[Neith]

I owned one of the 140s as my first car. Handling is brilliant, it feels like an oversized go kart through the bends. Built pretty well (but avoid pre-facelift 140s like the plague if possible, they can develop a death rattle due to a design that was revised for the facelift models). Having said that, mine was a pre-facelift with six-figure mileage and it never let me down once.

Don't expect any kind of performance though, 0-60 is over 8 seconds. I used to find that to overtake on dual carriageways I'd need to drop a gear or two otherwise it'd struggle.

Comfortable enough for longer journeys and they're not that thirsty either. Running costs for mine were pretty low, as is tax on the older ones.

The only reason I sold mine was that I wanted more power

Good cars though, I'd recommend them to anyone (especially so if you can't run something faster as these are dirt cheap to insure!).