Discussion
phazed said:
Check all your earths Derek, remove clean and bolt up tight, cured mine.
I can't remember, have your earths been disturbed in the past?
Maybe once or twice I can't remember, have your earths been disturbed in the past?
I know my connections are all clean and tight but some of the wires look passed their best.
That darn gearbox is coming out again on Friday. Its making those nasty scrapy grindy sounds again. So another release bearing is ordered and i am keeping everything crossed the paddle clutch is ok.
Or for the electrically challenged like me you can buy the hot start kit from http://www.djbeer.hostingbt.com/id32.html
The price has just about doubled from that quoted.
The price has just about doubled from that quoted.
db418BHP said:
That darn gearbox is coming out again on Friday.
I do seem to recall you saying it was 'easy' 
As for hot start issue, a tip I got was to upgrade the wiring to slightly thicker\better insulated stuff. I had my hot start issue on the drive back from collecting her, my heart sank when she wouldn't restart at the services
The hot start kit is just like fitting a relay to drive a set of spotlights. The relay coil is fed from the solenoid wire that WAS connected to the starter. The other side of the coil goes to ground. The first switch contact goes to a good 12v supply with a nice thick wire- back of the alternator is a good point and a 10 amp fuse inline is not a bad idea. The second switch contact goes to the the now free solenoid connection, again with a decent bit of wire. Job done.
I still don't understand (and others have said the same) why this kit could work. If the car starts from cold, the wiring has sufficient cross section to provide the necessary current. Sure the wire may get a little warm whilst the starting current is flowing and that puts its resistance up a little but this would drop again after a minute or two. If the above temperature rise was enough to prevent starting, I would expect to have problems on Summer days too.
When my car has done the above, it was a restart after driving for 20 minutes. The wires would have cooled after that long.
I have also heard from people that have fitted the kit and still had problems. It is odd though how some people fit the kit and say it rectified the fault.
I have to laugh at the link where it says, even if you haven't got the fault, you should fit this kit anyhow ! Brilliant !
Looking at the linked thread above, regarding fitting a negative cable in place of the chassis return. Remember that whilst the chassis is steel, it has a much, much larger cross section than any cable you are going to fit. Measure the resistance with a micro-ohmmeter between any two points on a chassis and you'll have a job to beat it with a cable. Earth (chassis) return is perfectly acceptable as long as the connections to anf from it are of good quality and you have the benefits of reduced weight.
I think the 'hot start issue' is more likely Carl Baker's suggestion that TVR fitted the relays in the immobiliser incorrectly and this has resulted in contact burn, which occasionally causes them to stick.
When my car has done the above, it was a restart after driving for 20 minutes. The wires would have cooled after that long.
I have also heard from people that have fitted the kit and still had problems. It is odd though how some people fit the kit and say it rectified the fault.
I have to laugh at the link where it says, even if you haven't got the fault, you should fit this kit anyhow ! Brilliant !
Looking at the linked thread above, regarding fitting a negative cable in place of the chassis return. Remember that whilst the chassis is steel, it has a much, much larger cross section than any cable you are going to fit. Measure the resistance with a micro-ohmmeter between any two points on a chassis and you'll have a job to beat it with a cable. Earth (chassis) return is perfectly acceptable as long as the connections to anf from it are of good quality and you have the benefits of reduced weight.
I think the 'hot start issue' is more likely Carl Baker's suggestion that TVR fitted the relays in the immobiliser incorrectly and this has resulted in contact burn, which occasionally causes them to stick.
Edited by taylormj4 on Tuesday 19th February 13:07
blitzracing said:
The hot start kit is just like fitting a relay to drive a set of spotlights. The relay coil is fed from the solenoid wire that WAS connected to the starter. The other side of the coil goes to ground. The first switch contact goes to a good 12v supply with a nice thick wire- back of the alternator is a good point and a 10 amp fuse inline is not a bad idea. The second switch contact goes to the the now free solenoid connection, again with a decent bit of wire. Job done.
This kind of talk frys my tiny brain but thankyou anyway.I am much better with pictures
taylormj4 said:
I still don't understand (and others have said the same) why this kit could work. If the car starts from cold, the wiring has sufficient cross section to provide the necessary current. Sure the wire may get a little warm whilst the starting current is flowing and that puts its resistance up a little but this would drop again after a minute or two. If the above temperature rise was enough to prevent starting, I would expect to have problems on Summer days too.
When my car has done the above, it was a restart after driving for 20 minutes. The wires would have cooled after that long.
I have also heard from people that have fitted the kit and still had problems. It is odd though how some people fit the kit and say it rectified the fault.
I have to laugh at the link where it says, even if you haven't got the fault, you should fit this kit anyhow ! Brilliant !
Looking at the linked thread above, regarding fitting a negative cable in place of the chassis return. Remember that whilst the chassis is steel, it has a much, much larger cross section than any cable you are going to fit. Measure the resistance with a micro-ohmmeter between any two points on a chassis and you'll have a job to beat it with a cable. Earth (chassis) return is perfectly acceptable as long as the connections to anf from it are of good quality and you have the benefits of reduced weight.
I think the 'hot start issue' is more likely Carl Baker's suggestion that TVR fitted the relays in the immobiliser incorrectly and this has resulted in contact burn, which occasionally causes them to stick.
You are missing some vital bits form the reasoning. Its not the wires getting hot, but the solenoid that is directly under the exhaust. A few hundered turns of thin copper wire getting hot will have a much greater effect on the total resitance. As the resistance goes up, the required voltage to make the soleniod work also goes up. The hot start kit simply ensures you get a good 12 volts at the solenoid that will still work when it gets hot. Its also true that you can loose a few volts through the imobiliser and increased wiring lengths, but this only happens at the high currents the soleniod draws, it wont happen on a relay coil at less than 1 amp.When my car has done the above, it was a restart after driving for 20 minutes. The wires would have cooled after that long.
I have also heard from people that have fitted the kit and still had problems. It is odd though how some people fit the kit and say it rectified the fault.
I have to laugh at the link where it says, even if you haven't got the fault, you should fit this kit anyhow ! Brilliant !
Looking at the linked thread above, regarding fitting a negative cable in place of the chassis return. Remember that whilst the chassis is steel, it has a much, much larger cross section than any cable you are going to fit. Measure the resistance with a micro-ohmmeter between any two points on a chassis and you'll have a job to beat it with a cable. Earth (chassis) return is perfectly acceptable as long as the connections to anf from it are of good quality and you have the benefits of reduced weight.
I think the 'hot start issue' is more likely Carl Baker's suggestion that TVR fitted the relays in the immobiliser incorrectly and this has resulted in contact burn, which occasionally causes them to stick.
Edited by taylormj4 on Tuesday 19th February 13:07
I agree with that (wonders will never cease 
) but although that's part of the problem the main reason is that TVR used the relay in the Meta Alarm to power the starter and it's just not up to the job so it gets burnt out. Adding the second relay in the circuit takes the load off the alarm relay and hopefully cures the problem. It all just depends on how much damage has been done to the alarm relay as to whether it's a permanent fix.
) but although that's part of the problem the main reason is that TVR used the relay in the Meta Alarm to power the starter and it's just not up to the job so it gets burnt out. Adding the second relay in the circuit takes the load off the alarm relay and hopefully cures the problem. It all just depends on how much damage has been done to the alarm relay as to whether it's a permanent fix.
blitzracing said:
You are missing some vital bits form the reasoning. Its not the wires getting hot, but the solenoid that is directly under the exhaust. A few hundered turns of thin copper wire getting hot will have a much greater effect on the total resitance. As the resistance goes up, the required voltage to make the soleniod work also goes up. The hot start kit simply ensures you get a good 12 volts at the solenoid that will still work when it gets hot. Its also true that you can loose a few volts through the imobiliser and increased wiring lengths, but this only happens at the high currents the soleniod draws, it wont happen on a relay coil at less than 1 amp.
This For those who already have symptoms of "the hot start" problem then i will bow to the knowledge of others in explaing ways to fix.
For anyone else before you have this problem, or if you decide to fit a new starter...........fit a heat shield around or between the starter and the exhaust manifold and it should never happen to you.
Im sure the wiring could have been better /thicker quality, but it is I.M.O the heat from the exhaust manifold that fries the solenoid.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff