"getting the back end out"
Discussion
How often do people actually do this. I have an mx5 which is renowned for it's handling and ability to get the back end out but however hard I drive I've never done it! I have driven plenty of RWD cars an never done it - other then really hammering it on a roundabout or out of a wet corner.
Say for example driving great roads around Scotland and the lake district etc, I can drive fast and hard but the back end never goes out!
The way I see it, without any throttle input a RWD car is no more likely to get the backend out than a FWD car. It's using the throttle to spin the wheels by hammering it out of the corner that causes the back end to step out....I just must not be hitting it hard enough! However considering the limited power of a 1.6 mx5 you've not got much opportunity to spin the wheels! doing a trackday soon so I'm sure it'll all become clear but so far, on the road, I've not been anywhere near!
Can imagine piss taking but I can't be the only one!
Say for example driving great roads around Scotland and the lake district etc, I can drive fast and hard but the back end never goes out!
The way I see it, without any throttle input a RWD car is no more likely to get the backend out than a FWD car. It's using the throttle to spin the wheels by hammering it out of the corner that causes the back end to step out....I just must not be hitting it hard enough! However considering the limited power of a 1.6 mx5 you've not got much opportunity to spin the wheels! doing a trackday soon so I'm sure it'll all become clear but so far, on the road, I've not been anywhere near!
Can imagine piss taking but I can't be the only one!
Pretty much any conventionally set up relatively low power road car is going to need more than just excess throttle to cause significant oversteer. Usually, a large sudden and significant handwheel input (know colloqually as "the send" ;-), a bump in the road, or other sudden unweighting, knackered rear tyres, or a f-off monster engine will be required.
The only time I get the back end out in the Caterham or in my old MX5 is on track days.
Occasionally I'll 'tease an angle' at a low speed on a damp, clear sighted roundabout or pulling out of a T junction, but those instances are very few and far between. IMO 11/10th driving is not really possible on public roads unless you are 100% sure you are own your own / an idiot / a driving god.
The Jag has never had it's back end out with me at the wheel, it just wouldn't be dignified.
Occasionally I'll 'tease an angle' at a low speed on a damp, clear sighted roundabout or pulling out of a T junction, but those instances are very few and far between. IMO 11/10th driving is not really possible on public roads unless you are 100% sure you are own your own / an idiot / a driving god.
The Jag has never had it's back end out with me at the wheel, it just wouldn't be dignified.
Edited by Matt UK on Thursday 21st February 21:35
The 350Z I briefly owned was good for this although only with the traction control off (obviously). I only did it a few times and only on a big, empty roundabout. Certainly brightened up my commute.
I once got the back end out in my very first VX220 too, then back in again, then back out, then 'whack' into a sign at the side of the road. Once you feel the back end of those cars 'getting out' it's normally too late
I once got the back end out in my very first VX220 too, then back in again, then back out, then 'whack' into a sign at the side of the road. Once you feel the back end of those cars 'getting out' it's normally too late
In my old nissan i always used to shift lock down into corners to get a bit of slip angle on.
in my current metro im always provoking the back end to dance so that i can get the front end turned in due to it being on super skinny ditch finders
im enjoying the challenge in a FWD shopping rattle box
in my current metro im always provoking the back end to dance so that i can get the front end turned in due to it being on super skinny ditch finders
im enjoying the challenge in a FWD shopping rattle box
Er it is very easy to do in an MX5
not saying you should, but definitely saying you could.
A little provocation on a well chosen bend perhaps, but easy to control.....well with an LSD at least. 1.6 cars might not have one, or only the viscous type that may now just be an open diff.
Don't really recommend a track day to practise drifting, this may get you exiting the track day pretty sharpish, but there are many "car control" days that will allow you to play with weight transfer and practise sliding in a safe environment, or do as the youth do and pop down to Tescos at 3am.
not saying you should, but definitely saying you could.A little provocation on a well chosen bend perhaps, but easy to control.....well with an LSD at least. 1.6 cars might not have one, or only the viscous type that may now just be an open diff.
Don't really recommend a track day to practise drifting, this may get you exiting the track day pretty sharpish, but there are many "car control" days that will allow you to play with weight transfer and practise sliding in a safe environment, or do as the youth do and pop down to Tescos at 3am.
I had a 1.6 MX5 too, and soon after I bought it, with normal use, the tyres ended up, erm, a bit bald. In the wet the car became hilarious, getting the back end out even at seriously low speeds if provoked.
However, although it taught me a lot about driving, throttle control and weight transfer/smoothness etc, it wasnt exactly clever (or legal) and new boots went on. The difference was huge, and it was very, very hard to go into banzai drift-o mode unless being a tool on a roundabout.
I've got a new model 3 series M-Sport now which has "Sport+" mode on the TC. It lets you have some fun without killing yourself. The super-torquey diesel does allow some roundabout exit sidewaysiness, however it does become a bit more scary with TC switched right off, and as for oversteering my way round a B road bend, forget it, I don't have the balls for that, and if we're honest, it's probably not sensible road behaviour anyway...
However, although it taught me a lot about driving, throttle control and weight transfer/smoothness etc, it wasnt exactly clever (or legal) and new boots went on. The difference was huge, and it was very, very hard to go into banzai drift-o mode unless being a tool on a roundabout.
I've got a new model 3 series M-Sport now which has "Sport+" mode on the TC. It lets you have some fun without killing yourself. The super-torquey diesel does allow some roundabout exit sidewaysiness, however it does become a bit more scary with TC switched right off, and as for oversteering my way round a B road bend, forget it, I don't have the balls for that, and if we're honest, it's probably not sensible road behaviour anyway...
Only done it once in the OH's MK1 1.8 MX-5 and that wasn't on purpose - patch of black ice sent me scrabbling for opposite lock whilst the Fiesta I was following sailed around the corner without a problem. Certainly didn't need a coffee that morning! I think the tired original shocks and springs didn't help hence it now sits on Sachs shocks and Eibach springs and is much better behaved. If your MX-5 doesn't have an LSD I think you will struggle to 'power slide', the standard open diff will just spin the power away on the inside wheel if it breaks traction.
In the wet the Zed will easily get the back end out in 2nd gear corners at less than full throttle. In fact it'll spin the wheels in a straight line in 2nd in the wet with traction control off obviously. But as mentioned above its rarely a good idea on public roads. It can go from a slide to a tank slapper to binning it into a car on the other side if the road quite quickly.
I used to commute in a Dolomite Sprint. I confess I did end up with a bit of oppo on the big roundabout on the way to work once or twice a week.
Also when borrowing a friend's MGB there was a particular corner that could only be taken without reversing if the back helped with the steering a bit.
Generally though sliding the rear means you are going more slowly than you could. But it's important to know how to correct a slide, and practice does make perfect after all.
Also when borrowing a friend's MGB there was a particular corner that could only be taken without reversing if the back helped with the steering a bit.
Generally though sliding the rear means you are going more slowly than you could. But it's important to know how to correct a slide, and practice does make perfect after all.
Mine will generate some slip angle at low speeds on a slippery surface, but I rarely do it on purpose and the electronics soon sort it out. I have, like the OP, alway been intrigued though as to how I would handle TC off oversteer....not really willing to put the Aston in a hedge though!
standardman said:
I drive a Capri (Nuff said ?)
Know what your saying there, I had a Nissan 200, that had an LSD and it was easy to get the back end out but only if you wanted, I got good at drifting it around corners, the 330ci I drive Ive never really tried, I certainly notice the lack of LSD and to be honest its more of a cruiser, im going to try donugting it and drifting it this weekend.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff