Cat D effect on value?

[A900ss]

I'm looking at buying either a Chim or Wedge in the very near future but my budget brings me in at the lower end of Chims.

I've seen an advert for a Cat D Chim and was wondering what the issues on value of car/saleability/insurance would be?

This is, of course, assuming that the car has been well repaired.

Many thanks.

[BountyHunter]

the general rule of thumb is that adverse history either Cat C or D reduces the value by roughly 30 - 40% (people often seem to settle on around a third) over that of a similar example with no adverse history

[A900ss]

Wow.

That is MUCH more than I expected.

Thanks.

[rigga]

Add to that lots won't touch a registered car no matter how well its been repaired.or the price, so that affects resale a lot.

[New POD]

I find it quite amusing.

Have a crash early in a cars life and it's economical to repair, and there is no record that it has been bodged by an insurance approved "specialist".

Crash later, in it's life and buy back the salvage from the insurance company, and fix it with second hand parts, and put lots of love and care into it and it's Cat D or Cat C, and people won't touch it with a barge pole.

[A900ss]

rigga said:

Add to that lots won't touch a registered car no matter how well its been repaired.or the price, so that affects resale a lot.

'Lots', is that a reference to buyers or insurance companies?

Thanks.

[pjac67]

Both.

[BountyHunter]

New POD said:

I find it quite amusing.

Have a crash early in a cars life and it's economical to repair, and there is no record that it has been bodged by an insurance approved "specialist".

Crash later, in it's life and buy back the salvage from the insurance company, and fix it with second hand parts, and put lots of love and care into it and it's Cat D or Cat C, and people won't touch it with a barge pole.

I agree, also makes me smile.
same damage can cause Cat C, Cat D or just a full repair with nothing on record- all depends on the assessors mood and the age of the car.


but you say repaired with "lots of love and care"
however that can sometimes mean "in my m8s garage and took 3 yrs and was all salvaged parts" etc. - though sure not always.

[SILICONEKID350HP]

BountyHunter said:

the general rule of thumb is that adverse history either Cat C or D reduces the value by roughly 30 - 40% (people often seem to settle on around a third) over that of a similar example with no adverse history

In your dreams Pal ..There must be hundreds of unregistered C and D`s on the road ,you won`t know anything about it !

[rigga]

How would they be cat C or D daz if they weren't on the register? .....slightly contradictory.

[BountyHunter]

SILICONEKID350HP said:

In your dreams Pal ..There must be hundreds of unregistered C and D`s on the road ,you won`t know anything about it !

are you living in the same world as everyone else ?

it costs about £3 to check - and anyone spending ££££ on a TVR is mad if they dont check. Hell even when it was £20 odd to run an hpi on a car you'd still have been mad not to check if spending a lot of £££.

Oh and if you ask someone selling a car "is it on the hpi register ?"
they are legally bound to answer correctly.

Bottom line is adverse hpi history affects value - you can argue all you like, but you would be talking out of your ar$e.
Lets be honest here, who wouldnt use any legitimate advantage to knock down a cars price unless they were an idiot ???

[SILICONEKID350HP]

rigga said:

How would they be cat C or D daz if they weren't on the register? .....slightly contradictory.

Many owners have rapaired without claiming from the insurance companies so they have not been categorized! You may be buying a pig without knowing it .

At least when the car has been catergorized you know what you are getting ,they are going to be road safe .

Why would an insurance company not insure a cat C or D when it as been through stringent tests to be deemed safe?.

OK i aggree they would be worth less but not 40% ,just don`t understand the insurance companies not wanting to insure ! They could just drop the value .It`s another excuse to put the premiums up !

Edited by SILICONEKID350HP on Sunday 24th February 00:29

[gavgavgav]

A previously recorded car, when back on the road, has no impact on insurance.

[SILICONEKID350HP]

gavgavgav said:

A previously recorded car, when back on the road, has no impact on insurance.

So if the car was not declared with Cat status could they refuse to pay out ?

[BountyHunter]

SILICONEKID350HP said:

i, Many owners have rapaired without claiming from the insurance companies so they have not been categorized! You may be buying a pig without knowing it .

ii. At least when the car has been catergorized you know what you are getting ,they are going to be road safe .

iii. Why would an insurance company not insure a cat C or D when it as been through stringent tests to be deemed safe?.

iv. OK i aggree they would be worth less but not 40% ,

v. just don`t understand the insurance companies not wanting to insure ! They could just drop the value .It`s another excuse to put the premiums up !

I dont think you understand how it works - in fact from your comments im certain of it.

to answer your statements i numbered them to make it easier.

i. a categorised car goes on the register because the insurance company has written it off and paid out the owner the full value of the vehicle.
why would a car be repaired without the ins company knowing it if the damage were severe ?

ii. why would it be safe because its been categorised ?
as i stated in no i. the register and categories simply show a car has been written off and paid out in full. It has nothing to do with the repairwork whatsoever.

iii. what are these "stringent tests" ?
all you have to do is a VIC check to prove its the same vehicle.

iv. its the market that has determined that value
its not 40% as such - but more of a range of 30 - 40% depending how good someones haggling skills etc are, and ofc how desperate someone is the sell the car.

v. some insurance companies dont like insuring a vehicle that has previously been paid out as a total loss, i believe its because they consider that they could then have to pay out again on the same vehicle - like double indemnity (which in this case it really isnt)


what generally happens when a car is damaged is this.

car is inspected by garages and loss adjuster
insurance company and loss adjuster then determine pre accident value and repair costs - if they go above a certain percentage of the value* then the car is written of as "beyond economical repair"

if they repair the vehicle then thats the end of it, it doesnt go on the hpi register.

if they refuse to repair it, then its given a category
in theory the category depends on severity of the damage, however thats not always the case. Its repair cost vs car value that determines the category.

once they have paid out full value that car is forever on the hpi register - and will always be subject to less value.

the damaged cars are then sold in one of two ways
either offered back to the previous owner for a percentage of his or her payout
or
sold by salavage auctions

any repairs that happen to them are not "stringently observed"
they simply have to pass a VIC check and an MOT

there are no unregistered cat c or d vehicles running around, except perhaps the odd one or two that due to paperwork errors at insurance company never made it onto the register

• btw one reason they choose a percentage of the value rather than the actual value is that they consider that sometimes a repair could increase the value of the vehicle (eg a car with paint defects that suffers a front end crash could end up being resprayed and given back to an owner in better than pre accident condition)

[Julesprivate]

30 to 40% is a good rule of thumb. it is possible to get the car removed from the register and moved to a "Cat Inspected" instead which then does not show up on the cheaper HPI checks and there is no legal obligation to inform prospective buyers.


some insurers will not touch a Cat C or D but many will. the same is true of buyers, some seem really adverse to them, some don't care. I am firmly in the latter camp. mine it's a Cat D but as soon as the repair work from my little mishap with the Beemer is complete I plan on having it inspected and removed from the register.


if the 30-40% figure is correct then my spending £250 on the inspection should be a great investment LOL

[New POD]

BountyHunter said:

New POD said:

I find it quite amusing.

Have a crash early in a cars life and it's economical to repair, and there is no record that it has been bodged by an insurance approved "specialist".

Crash later, in it's life and buy back the salvage from the insurance company, and fix it with second hand parts, and put lots of love and care into it and it's Cat D or Cat C, and people won't touch it with a barge pole.

I agree, also makes me smile.
same damage can cause Cat C, Cat D or just a full repair with nothing on record- all depends on the assessors mood and the age of the car.


but you say repaired with "lots of love and care"
however that can sometimes mean "in my m8s garage and took 3 yrs and was all salvaged parts" etc. - though sure not always.

Oh god, I was thinking that those were extremes of care.

Of course the real extremes are "danny" fixing it in the road with stolen parts, or a TVR specialist who has the moulds, and ex factory workers.

All I was saying is, just because a car isn't registered Cat C or D it doesn't mean it's not been in a massive crash. And just because it's a Cat C or D does not mean it's had a particularly big smash.

[Goaty Bill]

I well remember visiting a TVR specialist repairer after a 'blind' woman had scratched the side of my all but new Chimaera.

In the main workshop there were 6-8 bays + 2 paint booths, all occupied.
In the back yard were over 30(ish) Chimaeras and Griffiths.
Many with damage to all 4 corners, some with entire front, rear or side sections missing.
All were waiting to be repaired.

Upon asking if that little 'collection' in the back was 'normal', the garage owner told me it would get much worse when the winter started, but 25-35 cars waiting was about average for 8-9 months of the year.
That was one workshop in Surrey, on one day in the early autumn. Do the maths...

15 years ago, when the average value was between 25k and 36k, writing one of these off took some pretty extreme damage.
You could pretty much tear the front and rear off in a spin, and still end up having it repaired.

I suspect there are a lot of well damaged, and quite well, to excellently repaired TVRs out there. Far more than current owners would ever be aware of.

[Andav469]

Goaty Bill said:

I well remember visiting a TVR specialist repairer after a 'blind' woman had scratched the side of my all but new Chimaera.

In the main workshop there were 6-8 bays + 2 paint booths, all occupied.
In the back yard were over 30(ish) Chimaeras and Griffiths.
Many with damage to all 4 corners, some with entire front, rear or side sections missing.
All were waiting to be repaired.

Upon asking if that little 'collection' in the back was 'normal', the garage owner told me it would get much worse when the winter started, but 25-35 cars waiting was about average for 8-9 months of the year.
That was one workshop in Surrey, on one day in the early autumn. Do the maths...

15 years ago, when the average value was between 25k and 36k, writing one of these off took some pretty extreme damage.
You could pretty much tear the front and rear off in a spin, and still end up having it repaired.

I suspect there are a lot of well damaged, and quite well, to excellently repaired TVRs out there. Far more than current owners would ever be aware of.

That is exactly the point, buying a categorised car carries an element of risk, the risk being, as the car gets older and the value is not so high, there is a risk that the car will be repaired on the cheap, however, the same car could have been bought by an enthusiast and repaired to a higher standard than pre accident.

The same issue arises with service history, if the car doesn't have some 'TVR Specialist' service history, the rule of thumb is for the car to command a lower value, however, an enthusiast may well service/maintain their car to a greater extent.

In the real world a categorised car will be worth less than an unregistered car but if you know what your doing or happy to have an in depth inspection prior to purchase, then there can be some nicely prepared examples to be had at bargain basement prices.

[Aussie John]

With regard to heavily damaged but not on the register, say a driver over the limit stuffs it [or had some uninsured driver crash it] if no other car is involved then these cars are then repaired but not through insurance hence no hpi listing.