Lost 7 stone....now what? Abbs or size?
Discussion
Two years ago I was 22 stone, 44" waist (at least!)
After lots of diet/jogging/weights I am now just 15 1/2 with a 34" waist.
I now need to decide what to go after...my plan was to start to see good stomach definition (not a full on 6 pack) then put on size. However, I am getting a lot of people remark how "skinny" I am. Now there may be a lot of reasons for this - my clothes are too baggy, these people have seen me at my biggest so its a huge contrast and I'm 6ft6 so the 15 stone is very spread out!
So, at prob 15% body fat - do I hit the fat loss hard for 4/5 more weeks...get the levels down, put up with the "skinny" jokes then try to put on some bulk for summer.......or do I bulk now, not worry if the fat % rises a little and then cut in the summer?
I'll stick up a pick soon....may help!
After lots of diet/jogging/weights I am now just 15 1/2 with a 34" waist.
I now need to decide what to go after...my plan was to start to see good stomach definition (not a full on 6 pack) then put on size. However, I am getting a lot of people remark how "skinny" I am. Now there may be a lot of reasons for this - my clothes are too baggy, these people have seen me at my biggest so its a huge contrast and I'm 6ft6 so the 15 stone is very spread out!
So, at prob 15% body fat - do I hit the fat loss hard for 4/5 more weeks...get the levels down, put up with the "skinny" jokes then try to put on some bulk for summer.......or do I bulk now, not worry if the fat % rises a little and then cut in the summer?
I'll stick up a pick soon....may help!
Main thing is ... CONGRATULATIONS DUDE, that is one seriously good effort.
As for what to go for, totally up to you. Getting defined is far from easy, and bulking up ... also not easy. But if you put the same work into either as you've put into weight loss, then you'll do it regardless.
As for what to go for, totally up to you. Getting defined is far from easy, and bulking up ... also not easy. But if you put the same work into either as you've put into weight loss, then you'll do it regardless.
If it were me, I'd skinny right down and then bulk.
The time I tried bulking I just found the extra weight gain heartbreaking after all that work... And, no offence, I was never 22 stone to start with.
Suppose it depends on where you take the most pride from; fitting into 34 jeans, or having cannon ball shoulders and a giant chest / back. Some fellas strive for the latter, I prefer the former.
Just my two cents : )
The time I tried bulking I just found the extra weight gain heartbreaking after all that work... And, no offence, I was never 22 stone to start with.
Suppose it depends on where you take the most pride from; fitting into 34 jeans, or having cannon ball shoulders and a giant chest / back. Some fellas strive for the latter, I prefer the former.
Just my two cents : )
Very well done that man! 
Personally I think it makes the most sense to get very lean before bulking. If you are carrying a bit of weight and then bulk, you just end up fat with twice the amount of fat to lose!
My advice get ripped before starting and reward your hard work with a wardrobe upgrade!
Lee
Personally I think it makes the most sense to get very lean before bulking. If you are carrying a bit of weight and then bulk, you just end up fat with twice the amount of fat to lose!
My advice get ripped before starting and reward your hard work with a wardrobe upgrade!
Lee
Well, I was going to say I'd bulk then cut as I thought that was 'easier' than trying to bulk up on a strict diet so you're only gaining muscle and keeping low body fat.
But of course, as others have said after that weight loss like that (Well done!!) it may be very demoralising putting weight back on so soon.
But of course, as others have said after that weight loss like that (Well done!!) it may be very demoralising putting weight back on so soon.
I’m going to recommend what I’m aiming for.
Be a little bulky until beginning/mid-April then diet hard and lean up. Eat just above maintenance at the moment, train a lot with heavy weights then mid-April reduce calories to just below maintenance, carry on what you’re doing and then introduce some interval stuff. I’m going to start doing hill sprints before work when it gets a little warmer and drier. It should coincide with my stricter diet so should work out well. Doing something like that will probably benefit you and plus you’ll be in good shape for the summer months (read: day!!).
If you feel a little too fat, increase the intensity of your workouts or put some form of interval cardio into your routines once or twice a week and tweak your diet – but not drastically.
If you diet too much now to lose weight further, you will risk losing too much muscle and end up not looking how you want.
Remember, once you reach a decent amount of muscle mass, you turn into a calorie burning machine. So just sitting there doing nothing you are burning more calories than the average person. So when you do tweak your diet, you should be able to lose fat pretty comfortably but do it slowly so you don’t risk losing too much lean mass.
My plan is to portion up my meals to around 5-6 over the course of the day to keep my metabolism going and prevent stuffing my face too much in one sitting which can also make you tired. So although it doesn’t matter when you eat (to some extent), at least portioning out your reduced calories over a day will stop you from going too hungry between meals.
Well done on the weight-loss by the way. Do you have much muscle mass at the moment?
Be a little bulky until beginning/mid-April then diet hard and lean up. Eat just above maintenance at the moment, train a lot with heavy weights then mid-April reduce calories to just below maintenance, carry on what you’re doing and then introduce some interval stuff. I’m going to start doing hill sprints before work when it gets a little warmer and drier. It should coincide with my stricter diet so should work out well. Doing something like that will probably benefit you and plus you’ll be in good shape for the summer months (read: day!!).
If you feel a little too fat, increase the intensity of your workouts or put some form of interval cardio into your routines once or twice a week and tweak your diet – but not drastically.
If you diet too much now to lose weight further, you will risk losing too much muscle and end up not looking how you want.
Remember, once you reach a decent amount of muscle mass, you turn into a calorie burning machine. So just sitting there doing nothing you are burning more calories than the average person. So when you do tweak your diet, you should be able to lose fat pretty comfortably but do it slowly so you don’t risk losing too much lean mass.
My plan is to portion up my meals to around 5-6 over the course of the day to keep my metabolism going and prevent stuffing my face too much in one sitting which can also make you tired. So although it doesn’t matter when you eat (to some extent), at least portioning out your reduced calories over a day will stop you from going too hungry between meals.
Well done on the weight-loss by the way. Do you have much muscle mass at the moment?
MocMocaMoc said:
Suppose it depends on where you take the most pride from; fitting into 34 jeans, or having cannon ball shoulders and a giant chest / back.
Why either/or? Fat loss and muscle gain are two entirely different functions of the body. I'd go a slightly different route: Stay where you are diet wise for a few months and introduce some progressive adbdominal exercises designed to promote growth. Work on making your abs bigger and do a sudden diet, in say, four months, when you're satisfied they've grown enough. You won't have to go quite as low bf% either.
What's your ideal physique?
I'm 220lbs at 6'5" and don't feel that skinny but I do have broad shoulders, waist is 35". I'd say get down to at least a 6 pack and then do a good, solid, clean bulk from there. You'll put some fat back on but most of it should hopefully be muscle. The reason I say go to a 6 pack is because then you have the thought in your head that you've got the discipline to do that so can do it again if needed.
I'm 220lbs at 6'5" and don't feel that skinny but I do have broad shoulders, waist is 35". I'd say get down to at least a 6 pack and then do a good, solid, clean bulk from there. You'll put some fat back on but most of it should hopefully be muscle. The reason I say go to a 6 pack is because then you have the thought in your head that you've got the discipline to do that so can do it again if needed.
Nice effort that man! Must feel really good sorting yourself out... but... the process never ends. If you want Abs, the routine and effort becomes your lifestyle... all of the time.
So your routine of the last 2 years should now become habit. It is not a temporary thing. The results should mean you enjoy it. If you forget the enjoyment, take a look at the fatties around you every now and then. Feel smug. You have every right.
If you want visible Abs, get your fat % measured. Only when you know where you are, do you know where you need to go. Only when you know where you need to go, can you plan on how to get there.
At 15% body fat there is a lot of harder work to come - the law of dimishing returns. You need to get 9-7% for good visible Abs and the closer you get to this, the harder you have to work, the more an@l you need to get with diet, exercise and the timing of both.
As said though, losing weight is easy and fast. Yes, easy and fast. Do that first. Cut right down. (Cutting) Then build muscle. Building muscle is hard and slow. It will take much longer to do this than losing weight. When you go to build muscle you will put on fat again. (Bulking)
Because you were fat, you will have a lot of fat cells in your body, so when you bulk you will put on fat fast. But you know how to get rid of it, so don't let that bother you.
Cut. Bulk. Cut. Bulk. Easiest way to do it.
There is a means of gaining muscle and burn fat at the same time, but this is hard and your diet and exercise will start to seriously intercept your life.
I know, I've tried both methods. I've had other people try both methods. The Cut/Bulk method requires self-confidence. The gain and burn method requires dedication.
So your routine of the last 2 years should now become habit. It is not a temporary thing. The results should mean you enjoy it. If you forget the enjoyment, take a look at the fatties around you every now and then. Feel smug. You have every right.
If you want visible Abs, get your fat % measured. Only when you know where you are, do you know where you need to go. Only when you know where you need to go, can you plan on how to get there.
At 15% body fat there is a lot of harder work to come - the law of dimishing returns. You need to get 9-7% for good visible Abs and the closer you get to this, the harder you have to work, the more an@l you need to get with diet, exercise and the timing of both.
As said though, losing weight is easy and fast. Yes, easy and fast. Do that first. Cut right down. (Cutting) Then build muscle. Building muscle is hard and slow. It will take much longer to do this than losing weight. When you go to build muscle you will put on fat again. (Bulking)
Because you were fat, you will have a lot of fat cells in your body, so when you bulk you will put on fat fast. But you know how to get rid of it, so don't let that bother you.
Cut. Bulk. Cut. Bulk. Easiest way to do it.
There is a means of gaining muscle and burn fat at the same time, but this is hard and your diet and exercise will start to seriously intercept your life.
I know, I've tried both methods. I've had other people try both methods. The Cut/Bulk method requires self-confidence. The gain and burn method requires dedication.
MocMocaMoc said:
From what I've read, and personal experience, it's difficult to gain in both areas. But that's just me, not saying everyone's that same.
It's difficult to get abs full stop because of entrenched beliefs about the way they should be trained for the magic six-pack. Most are wrong.MocMocaMoc said:
Do abs hypertrophy?
The training principle applies to any muscle tissue in the body: If you can force adaptation the muscle will grow. MocMocaMoc said:
I've always thought bigger abs = lose more fat.
Lose more fat = flatter stomach. That's all. What'll be left is genetics. It's likely if you've never worked abs properly there'll be nothing to see.You need bigger abs. Bigger abs = shortish sets with fairly heavy weights.Hard exercises to really challenge them, i.e. ab wheel, weighted leg raises, weighted crunches, weighted w/wipers, levers, flags..anything that seriously pushes them.
Best combination?
Flat stomach + bigger abs = pronounced six-pack.
mattikake said:
the process never ends. If you want Abs, the routine and effort becomes your lifestyle... all of the time.
This is the reality.
king fair play mate 
Congrats and well done!
I've read about being fat equating to more fat cells - apparently, we continue to develop the number of fat cells through our teenage years and the number is set for life as we become adults. So, well done to all the parents who let their children get fat!
One possibility as Matt says - calorie cycle like me! Eat TDEE+20% on training days, TDEE-20% on rest days! Keep protein levels up! It's a PITA but that might be me inserting the chicken wrong. In any case, I'm building muscle but my fat levels have not gone up since December when I stopped cutting but then I've been counting calories like a 50 year old woman for a year now.
mattikake said:
At 15% body fat there is a lot of harder work to come - the law of dimishing returns. You need to get 9-7% for good visible Abs and the closer you get to this, the harder you have to work, the more an@l you need to get with diet, exercise and the timing of both.
As said though, losing weight is easy and fast. Yes, easy and fast. Do that first. Cut right down. (Cutting) Then build muscle. Building muscle is hard and slow. It will take much longer to do this than losing weight. When you go to build muscle you will put on fat again. (Bulking)
Because you were fat, you will have a lot of fat cells in your body, so when you bulk you will put on fat fast. But you know how to get rid of it, so don't let that bother you.
Cut. Bulk. Cut. Bulk. Easiest way to do it.
There is a means of gaining muscle and burn fat at the same time, but this is hard and your diet and exercise will start to seriously intercept your life.
I know, I've tried both methods. I've had other people try both methods. The Cut/Bulk method requires self-confidence. The gain and burn method requires dedication.
Too right re the law of diminishing returns! That's why I decided to stop cutting for a while and focus on bulking again.As said though, losing weight is easy and fast. Yes, easy and fast. Do that first. Cut right down. (Cutting) Then build muscle. Building muscle is hard and slow. It will take much longer to do this than losing weight. When you go to build muscle you will put on fat again. (Bulking)
Because you were fat, you will have a lot of fat cells in your body, so when you bulk you will put on fat fast. But you know how to get rid of it, so don't let that bother you.
Cut. Bulk. Cut. Bulk. Easiest way to do it.
There is a means of gaining muscle and burn fat at the same time, but this is hard and your diet and exercise will start to seriously intercept your life.
I know, I've tried both methods. I've had other people try both methods. The Cut/Bulk method requires self-confidence. The gain and burn method requires dedication.
I've read about being fat equating to more fat cells - apparently, we continue to develop the number of fat cells through our teenage years and the number is set for life as we become adults. So, well done to all the parents who let their children get fat!
One possibility as Matt says - calorie cycle like me! Eat TDEE+20% on training days, TDEE-20% on rest days! Keep protein levels up! It's a PITA but that might be me inserting the chicken wrong. In any case, I'm building muscle but my fat levels have not gone up since December when I stopped cutting but then I've been counting calories like a 50 year old woman for a year now.
goldblum said:
mattikake said:
the process never ends. If you want Abs, the routine and effort becomes your lifestyle... all of the time.
This is the reality.I'd bulk then cut. You've been on a cut for a long time and your body will be used to the reduced calories, getting that last 5%+ of BF will be much harder because of this. Shock the body with a shortish bulk of a few months then cut, it'll come off much faster and you'll get to enjoy eating plenty for a while. It'll be hard to bulk after losing that much weight as you won't want to put the fat back on, but you need to eat plenty otherwise you won't gain anywhere near as well as you can.
It is likely you'll have lost some muscle during your cut, you'll gain that back and more with your bulk very quickly if you eat enough, start with 500 calories extra per day over maintenance calories, if you don't gain at least 1lb a week then up it 250 calories, repeat till you are putting on at least a 1lb a week. About half of that will be muscle (for a new lifter) and half will be fat. Cut back on calories by 250 if the weight gain is over 2lb a week.
You should find that you have way more energy, you need to really push in the gym to get the most out of the bulk. I find I can do another 20 minutes or more on a bulk of hard work per session.
Only real way to get abs to show is to cut body fat, you want them to show even more then cut more body fat. Once you have them showing weighted ab moves such as cable crunches and my favourite, hanging leg raises with feet all the way to the hands.
It is likely you'll have lost some muscle during your cut, you'll gain that back and more with your bulk very quickly if you eat enough, start with 500 calories extra per day over maintenance calories, if you don't gain at least 1lb a week then up it 250 calories, repeat till you are putting on at least a 1lb a week. About half of that will be muscle (for a new lifter) and half will be fat. Cut back on calories by 250 if the weight gain is over 2lb a week.
You should find that you have way more energy, you need to really push in the gym to get the most out of the bulk. I find I can do another 20 minutes or more on a bulk of hard work per session.
Only real way to get abs to show is to cut body fat, you want them to show even more then cut more body fat. Once you have them showing weighted ab moves such as cable crunches and my favourite, hanging leg raises with feet all the way to the hands.
15% is maybe a little to high to start bulking - would be for me anyway.
For what it's worth, I cut down to about 9% bodyfat according to calipers end of last summer. Looked good but it KILLED my libido. It's slightly metabolically adventageous to bulk from low body fat, i.e. less likely to gain as much fat.
I'm sitting at around 13-14% fat now and despite really good strength gains I'd like to be a bit leaner.
Each to their own though.
For what it's worth, I cut down to about 9% bodyfat according to calipers end of last summer. Looked good but it KILLED my libido. It's slightly metabolically adventageous to bulk from low body fat, i.e. less likely to gain as much fat.
I'm sitting at around 13-14% fat now and despite really good strength gains I'd like to be a bit leaner.
Each to their own though.
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