Novice contemplating first season - Advice please
Discussion
Hi all,
This is my first post in this part of the forums so apologies if I stray into territory covered elsewhere; I have tried a search without success. A little background on me, I am over 40, just, and have a reasonable amount of experience “tinkering” with cars. Probably the most difficult / complicated single job I have carried out was an engine change on SWMBO’s diesel 406 estate and I regularly work on my current track Mk2 Golf so am happy with a set of spanners.
I have been told that I am being made redundant at the end of the year and SWMBO has agreed that I can keep a bit of the payout to fund a long held desire to go racing. It will not be a huge amount (possibly as much as £10,000) but should, I think, be enough to fund at least 1 year’s competition. My initial thinking, and research, would lead me to either the MR2 or MX5 series’ as they seem to offer the right combination of close racing / community spirit / budget / etc.
I am running a Mk2 Rev 1 NA MR2 as my daily commuter and transport across Germany home vehicle so that would seem to be the idea base for this. I could start doing minor jobs as they become needed keeping in line with the regulations so that less is required when the big day arrives. I am thinking that braided brake lines, engine cover pins etc could be easily achieved without much cost and without compromising the normal use of the car.
My internet research has lead me to believe that this would be a realistic budget, please advise me otherwise! ;-)
Race Licence:
Personal Equipment:
Car / Preparation:
Races
So realistic or dreamland?
This is my first post in this part of the forums so apologies if I stray into territory covered elsewhere; I have tried a search without success. A little background on me, I am over 40, just, and have a reasonable amount of experience “tinkering” with cars. Probably the most difficult / complicated single job I have carried out was an engine change on SWMBO’s diesel 406 estate and I regularly work on my current track Mk2 Golf so am happy with a set of spanners.
I have been told that I am being made redundant at the end of the year and SWMBO has agreed that I can keep a bit of the payout to fund a long held desire to go racing. It will not be a huge amount (possibly as much as £10,000) but should, I think, be enough to fund at least 1 year’s competition. My initial thinking, and research, would lead me to either the MR2 or MX5 series’ as they seem to offer the right combination of close racing / community spirit / budget / etc.
I am running a Mk2 Rev 1 NA MR2 as my daily commuter and transport across Germany home vehicle so that would seem to be the idea base for this. I could start doing minor jobs as they become needed keeping in line with the regulations so that less is required when the big day arrives. I am thinking that braided brake lines, engine cover pins etc could be easily achieved without much cost and without compromising the normal use of the car.
My internet research has lead me to believe that this would be a realistic budget, please advise me otherwise! ;-)
Race Licence:
| Go Racing Pack | £69 | |
|---|---|---|
| ARDS Test | £250 | |
| Fuel to test | £30 | |
| Contingency | £150 | |
| TOTAL | £500 |
Personal Equipment:
| Clothes (race suit/etc) | £1000 |
|---|
Car / Preparation:
| Purchase of car | £Nil | |
|---|---|---|
| Brakes (discs/pads/lines/etc) | £750 | |
| Suspension (Yellow Billies) | £1000 | |
| Poly bushes | £250 | |
| Exhaust | £350 | |
| Engine mods (Air filter/hoses/etc) | £500 | |
| Roll Cage (Including fitting) | £1000 | |
| Sundries (engine cut off switch/rain light/etc) | £150 | |
| Fire extinguisher | £250 | |
| Tyres | £500 | |
| Trailer | £1000 | |
| Contingency | £250 | |
| Total | £6000 |
Races
| Entry Fees | £2000 | |
|---|---|---|
| Contingency | £500 | |
| Total | £2500 |
| Total Budget for year | £10,000 |
|---|
So realistic or dreamland?
I have to agree, buy a ready built car.
The mx5 championship is great, lots about and you can pick a good built one up for about 4k at the moment, see http://www.ma5daracing.com/items/ and http://www.max5racing.com/for_sale_used.html
You have the choice of Max5racing good calendar but mainly Mk3's or BRSCC who look like they will have full grids and most of the top Mk1 drivers this year, then Ma5daracing who seem too have lost their way this year with money difficulties last year and BRSCC setting up, they don't appear to have any firm dates confirmed.
But who ever you go with, you can guarantee it will be good close racing.
The mx5 championship is great, lots about and you can pick a good built one up for about 4k at the moment, see http://www.ma5daracing.com/items/ and http://www.max5racing.com/for_sale_used.html
You have the choice of Max5racing good calendar but mainly Mk3's or BRSCC who look like they will have full grids and most of the top Mk1 drivers this year, then Ma5daracing who seem too have lost their way this year with money difficulties last year and BRSCC setting up, they don't appear to have any firm dates confirmed.
But who ever you go with, you can guarantee it will be good close racing.
OK, I accept that purchasing a car might be a better option. It would open up a few other race series, although more choice is something i don't need! ;-) So if I swap the £5000 of car costs for purchasing a completed ready to race car do the rest of the figures still add up and is a £10,000 budget enough for a first season?
Jonleeper said:
OK, I accept that purchasing a car might be a better option. It would open up a few other race series, although more choice is something i don't need! ;-) So if I swap the £5000 of car costs for purchasing a completed ready to race car do the rest of the figures still add up and is a £10,000 budget enough for a first season?
Easily enough if you're determined to make it last and you don't have any major unforeseen costs.We did last year in the G20 for £5000 and that includes some major breakages, buy a car that doesn't have too many specialist parts (a season the Clio Cup car was more than double that - £12k - because of Renaultsport only parts and a sequential gearbox rebuild) and do a lot of the spannering yourself and £5k should see you out for the full season barring any major shunts.
Unless you're a spectacularly good driver it won't see you at the front of the pack, but that's usually inconsequential to most people in their first season (subsequent seasons however....).
Just be aware that once you start, it's very difficult to give up (I can testify to this, 11 years after saying "Just the one season, to say I've done it").
Good luck
Buy!
I would look at the Mx5 or BMW Compact series
because they concentrate on keeping the overall
cost down, which allows you to concentrate on
just racing.
You could combine track days with entering a
selection of rounds to maximise track time while
you learn.
Racing is a lot harder than it looks and can become
a very expensive habit, so balancing your first
season might be worth looking at.
You will need a transponder £360 ish
I would look at the Mx5 or BMW Compact series
because they concentrate on keeping the overall
cost down, which allows you to concentrate on
just racing.
You could combine track days with entering a
selection of rounds to maximise track time while
you learn.
Racing is a lot harder than it looks and can become
a very expensive habit, so balancing your first
season might be worth looking at.
You will need a transponder £360 ish
Count Johnny said:
Correction. You seem to doing your bit for the MSA's green thing by burning zero fossil fuels (we're talking petrol and oil here).
They don't count! But suspension set up, alignment , corner weights do, plus rolling road sessions don't come cheap.Edited by Count Johnny on Friday 1st March 19:53
BUY!
Buy an Mx5. You will need a bigger contingency for accident/mechanical damage/repairs. As said you need to budget a considerable amount for fuel, both transport and racing.
You also need to budget championship registration costs, possibly hotel/accommodation costs and testing/trackdays.
I reckon you can do a full season in the Mazdas for £10k all in (including buying a car) and you'll have a car that's still worth something at the end of the season. If you run with BRSCC you'll be able to do a full season on one set of shaved tyres for ~£230 but you'll probably want another set with full tread for wet use.
You WILL want to test. You WILL want to spend huge amounts of money on tiny upgrades. My advice is, as a novice, the biggest gains in time you will make will be from seat time and instruction.
Most of all, just do it!
Dan
You also need to budget championship registration costs, possibly hotel/accommodation costs and testing/trackdays.
I reckon you can do a full season in the Mazdas for £10k all in (including buying a car) and you'll have a car that's still worth something at the end of the season. If you run with BRSCC you'll be able to do a full season on one set of shaved tyres for ~£230 but you'll probably want another set with full tread for wet use.
You WILL want to test. You WILL want to spend huge amounts of money on tiny upgrades. My advice is, as a novice, the biggest gains in time you will make will be from seat time and instruction.
Most of all, just do it!
Dan
The fuel costs of getting to the events are normally a lot more than the actual driving at the track, remember as you are towing your mpg is a lot lower.
The costs of your race gear may also end up being a little more depending on what you buy. For example you could pay that for just a helmet, and if you want HANS then that will add a fair bit. But if you shop around you will get a good deal.
I would agree with some of the above championships would be a good place to start. In no particular order I would think that good ones to start with would be,
Compact BMW's
Production BMW's
Mazda MX5's
Mighty minis
Production GTI's
You will notice all are one make, I tend to find these give much closer and cost effective racing.
The costs of your race gear may also end up being a little more depending on what you buy. For example you could pay that for just a helmet, and if you want HANS then that will add a fair bit. But if you shop around you will get a good deal.
I would agree with some of the above championships would be a good place to start. In no particular order I would think that good ones to start with would be,
Compact BMW's
Production BMW's
Mazda MX5's
Mighty minis
Production GTI's
You will notice all are one make, I tend to find these give much closer and cost effective racing.
the best advice i know if you're planning on racing and preping a car, is to first of all find the series or championship you want to race in. read all the regs thoroughly before preping or buying a car. if you don't do this you may have to spend more money reverting the car to the regs of a series. once you have done this you can start to work out a budget.
obviously ARDS and all the personal kit will be the same for any series.
the other costs that can add up quickly will be travel costs....to and from circuits (tow car?), hotel cost (I live in deepest darkest Norfolk so all circuits are over 3hours away apart from Snett so hotels are needed.) could tent it, but the space in a tow car is always limited as you always want to get in more spares and tools.
food at tracks is not cheap, you will need to provide anyone that comes along to help with tea and lunch, it all adds up.
obviously ARDS and all the personal kit will be the same for any series.
the other costs that can add up quickly will be travel costs....to and from circuits (tow car?), hotel cost (I live in deepest darkest Norfolk so all circuits are over 3hours away apart from Snett so hotels are needed.) could tent it, but the space in a tow car is always limited as you always want to get in more spares and tools.
food at tracks is not cheap, you will need to provide anyone that comes along to help with tea and lunch, it all adds up.
Mark Benson said:
Jonleeper said:
OK, I accept that purchasing a car might be a better option. It would open up a few other race series, although more choice is something i don't need! ;-) So if I swap the £5000 of car costs for purchasing a completed ready to race car do the rest of the figures still add up and is a £10,000 budget enough for a first season?
Easily enough if you're determined to make it last and you don't have any major unforeseen costs.We did last year in the G20 for £5000 and that includes some major breakages, buy a car that doesn't have too many specialist parts (a season the Clio Cup car was more than double that - £12k - because of Renaultsport only parts and a sequential gearbox rebuild) and do a lot of the spannering yourself and £5k should see you out for the full season barring any major shunts.
Unless you're a spectacularly good driver it won't see you at the front of the pack, but that's usually inconsequential to most people in their first season (subsequent seasons however....).
Just be aware that once you start, it's very difficult to give up (I can testify to this, 11 years after saying "Just the one season, to say I've done it").
Good luck
The following season's though I will have to try and fund from income and not the redundancy. I am only trying to see if my budget is realistic or if I will have to get some more put away to ensure I don't run out of cash before I can save enough for the next year's racing.
simes43 said:
Buy!
I would look at the Mx5 or BMW Compact series
because they concentrate on keeping the overall
cost down, which allows you to concentrate on
just racing.
You could combine track days with entering a
selection of rounds to maximise track time while
you learn.
Racing is a lot harder than it looks and can become
a very expensive habit, so balancing your first
season might be worth looking at.
You will need a transponder £360 ish
I'm not sure I will be able to fully compete for the first season, there will be other things that will demand my attention so that's a good idea to spread the cost in the first year. I like the look of the compacts.I would look at the Mx5 or BMW Compact series
because they concentrate on keeping the overall
cost down, which allows you to concentrate on
just racing.
You could combine track days with entering a
selection of rounds to maximise track time while
you learn.
Racing is a lot harder than it looks and can become
a very expensive habit, so balancing your first
season might be worth looking at.
You will need a transponder £360 ish
djroadboy said:
Buy an Mx5. You will need a bigger contingency for accident/mechanical damage/repairs. As said you need to budget a considerable amount for fuel, both transport and racing.
You also need to budget championship registration costs, possibly hotel/accommodation costs and testing/trackdays.
I reckon you can do a full season in the Mazdas for £10k all in (including buying a car) and you'll have a car that's still worth something at the end of the season. If you run with BRSCC you'll be able to do a full season on one set of shaved tyres for ~£230 but you'll probably want another set with full tread for wet use.
You WILL want to test. You WILL want to spend huge amounts of money on tiny upgrades. My advice is, as a novice, the biggest gains in time you will make will be from seat time and instruction.
Most of all, just do it!
Dan
Thanks for that. So I can do a season for £10k but, based on what everyone else has said, I need to allow the other fixed costs (license, clothes, trailer, etc)need to be budgeted on top. That means I, realistically, need to find another £2k (or so) for these leaving about £5k for the car and £5k for the season.You also need to budget championship registration costs, possibly hotel/accommodation costs and testing/trackdays.
I reckon you can do a full season in the Mazdas for £10k all in (including buying a car) and you'll have a car that's still worth something at the end of the season. If you run with BRSCC you'll be able to do a full season on one set of shaved tyres for ~£230 but you'll probably want another set with full tread for wet use.
You WILL want to test. You WILL want to spend huge amounts of money on tiny upgrades. My advice is, as a novice, the biggest gains in time you will make will be from seat time and instruction.
Most of all, just do it!
Dan
Does that seem closer to the mark?
Thinking about budget I may have a friend who is also interested in dipping his toe into racing. Is it possible to share a car and both race or is that just a recipe for trouble? I realise that there is the risk of one person breaking the car or mechanical failure stopping play for the day but do people double up? I notice that often there are two names on the glass of many of these cars but is that just a team or do two people actually race the car.
I was thinking that the best way to do this would be to alternate race days, thus only one person is actually racing that weekend and if they break it only they suffer. I am also aware that it would only work for the first season as after that I am sure that I will want to be more competitive and need more time in the seat and want to complete at as many races as possible. Is it worth it or not?
I was thinking that the best way to do this would be to alternate race days, thus only one person is actually racing that weekend and if they break it only they suffer. I am also aware that it would only work for the first season as after that I am sure that I will want to be more competitive and need more time in the seat and want to complete at as many races as possible. Is it worth it or not?
your profile says you are based in Kent.
If that is correct I would suggest you look at the SEMSEC motor club sports and saloon championship. This is based at Lydden and Brands.
If you got yourself a 1600cc car, be it an MR2 or Saxo it would be eligible for the Meridian class (6) of this championship. Entries would be £150 for two races and a practice session/ There are 6 meetings so entry fees would be circa £900 ( for 12 races)
You would be competitive in something like an ex stock hatch or Mr2/Mx5 car. You wouldn't need to spend a lot testing as there are only 2 circuits in the championship, so probably 1 day at the start of the season would be enough. Racing is competitive but driving standards are generally good. Lots of different types of car are racing.
I would estimate that so long as your car was reliable you could do the season for £2k easy.
Ok you have to buy a car, but i'd budget 2-3k for that, and a trailer, say £1k. Hopefully your daily driver is big enough to tow so that all you need is a tow bar. You must remember that the capital expenses can be sold at the end of the year, probably for as much as you paid for them. So really its just your running costs you have to pay for.
Equally as all the rounds are kent based you should be able to drive there and back in a day, so no overnight costs and of course they are local so cheaper fuel costs ( as in less distance to travel) Also the race meetings happen in the afternoon, so no early starts.
If you did this championsip I'd estimate an upfront cost of £5k, £2k ongoing and then getting back 3-4k at the end of the season. So in reality cost would be £3k.
I won the championship for the last 2 years, it cost me £1150 in 2011 and £2190 in 2012 ( mainly because I upgraded my dampers)
there will be a lot of naysayers condeming Lydden on this forum, its an ok track, and perfect for your first season. Where it lets itself down is if you have had to travel 200 miles to get there.
hth.
If that is correct I would suggest you look at the SEMSEC motor club sports and saloon championship. This is based at Lydden and Brands.
If you got yourself a 1600cc car, be it an MR2 or Saxo it would be eligible for the Meridian class (6) of this championship. Entries would be £150 for two races and a practice session/ There are 6 meetings so entry fees would be circa £900 ( for 12 races)
You would be competitive in something like an ex stock hatch or Mr2/Mx5 car. You wouldn't need to spend a lot testing as there are only 2 circuits in the championship, so probably 1 day at the start of the season would be enough. Racing is competitive but driving standards are generally good. Lots of different types of car are racing.
I would estimate that so long as your car was reliable you could do the season for £2k easy.
Ok you have to buy a car, but i'd budget 2-3k for that, and a trailer, say £1k. Hopefully your daily driver is big enough to tow so that all you need is a tow bar. You must remember that the capital expenses can be sold at the end of the year, probably for as much as you paid for them. So really its just your running costs you have to pay for.
Equally as all the rounds are kent based you should be able to drive there and back in a day, so no overnight costs and of course they are local so cheaper fuel costs ( as in less distance to travel) Also the race meetings happen in the afternoon, so no early starts.
If you did this championsip I'd estimate an upfront cost of £5k, £2k ongoing and then getting back 3-4k at the end of the season. So in reality cost would be £3k.
I won the championship for the last 2 years, it cost me £1150 in 2011 and £2190 in 2012 ( mainly because I upgraded my dampers)
there will be a lot of naysayers condeming Lydden on this forum, its an ok track, and perfect for your first season. Where it lets itself down is if you have had to travel 200 miles to get there.
hth.
Jonleeper said:
Thinking about budget I may have a friend who is also interested in dipping his toe into racing. Is it possible to share a car and both race or is that just a recipe for trouble? I realise that there is the risk of one person breaking the car or mechanical failure stopping play for the day but do people double up? I notice that often there are two names on the glass of many of these cars but is that just a team or do two people actually race the car.
I was thinking that the best way to do this would be to alternate race days, thus only one person is actually racing that weekend and if they break it only they suffer. I am also aware that it would only work for the first season as after that I am sure that I will want to be more competitive and need more time in the seat and want to complete at as many races as possible. Is it worth it or not?
Sharing could be an ideal way forward if you are looking to keep costs within reason. You will have to agree on the "what ifs", like accident damage etc.I was thinking that the best way to do this would be to alternate race days, thus only one person is actually racing that weekend and if they break it only they suffer. I am also aware that it would only work for the first season as after that I am sure that I will want to be more competitive and need more time in the seat and want to complete at as many races as possible. Is it worth it or not?
I know that the Compacts are happy with two drivers sharing a single car over a season. There are lots of novices entering this year so you would not be alone on the learning curve.
One thing you might want to think about is the impact it can have on your family time and although you have "approval" try to keep the family on-side. Although it costs more, we treat some of the far away meetings like a trip away, mini break if you will, by staying in a nice hotel and eating well too. If they buy into the social side, it makes the cost justification that little bit easier.
Finally, go on the scrounge! Other than a helmet, there are plenty of people on the different forums who might have a pair of boots they no longer need or a set of wheels etc. I used Coulthard's old race tyres,which I brought from his team when I started karting to keep costs down.
Going to places like this for your racing wear might help, they are fully FIA certified to Snell 2010 but surprisingly inexpensive.
http://www.blackcathelmets.com/Helmets/Full%20Face...
I have one and its snug, comfortable (more so with a balaclava) and ready to paint if you so choose.
I have a 3 layer suit from Racewear plus they do all the other stuff you need:
http://www.racewear.co.uk/Sabelt_Stratos2_3_layer_...
I totted it all up, all FIA certified, helmet, gloves, 3 layer suit, boots, socks, balaclava, long johns and undershirt all came to £727.40
So that's £272.60 towards petrol and pizzas and beer after the race!
Remember, it's not a fashion parade, you don't need to have the most expensive Arai helmet or the shiniest overalls to race and have fun.
http://www.blackcathelmets.com/Helmets/Full%20Face...
I have one and its snug, comfortable (more so with a balaclava) and ready to paint if you so choose.
I have a 3 layer suit from Racewear plus they do all the other stuff you need:
http://www.racewear.co.uk/Sabelt_Stratos2_3_layer_...
I totted it all up, all FIA certified, helmet, gloves, 3 layer suit, boots, socks, balaclava, long johns and undershirt all came to £727.40
So that's £272.60 towards petrol and pizzas and beer after the race!
Remember, it's not a fashion parade, you don't need to have the most expensive Arai helmet or the shiniest overalls to race and have fun.
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