The meaning of "soul" when referring to super & hypercars
Discussion
OK, after hearing this for the umpteenth time, could somebody actually define the terms "soul", "passion" and "emotion" as referred to a car please? It seems to me everybody talks about this as if it is general knowledge, but I have not heard anybody actually discuss/distill the meaning of these words in detail.
Maybe this is one for another PH Blog to tackle, what do the resident PH journos think?
I imagine it must be mightily irritating when you've put a lot care and attention to building a car, for example the MP4-12C, only for a hack to come along and dismiss it for not having "soul". I also don't understand when people say the 12C is too clinical, implying it is faultless in everything it does and lacks "character". Well, isn't a plonking great turbo V8 characterful enough? Is the 12C really an absolute master at everything it does? Is being imperfect, a criteria for having "soul"? If so, how does the F458 fulfill this, when the 12C doesn't?
Someone please care to enlighten?
Maybe this is one for another PH Blog to tackle, what do the resident PH journos think?
I imagine it must be mightily irritating when you've put a lot care and attention to building a car, for example the MP4-12C, only for a hack to come along and dismiss it for not having "soul". I also don't understand when people say the 12C is too clinical, implying it is faultless in everything it does and lacks "character". Well, isn't a plonking great turbo V8 characterful enough? Is the 12C really an absolute master at everything it does? Is being imperfect, a criteria for having "soul"? If so, how does the F458 fulfill this, when the 12C doesn't?
Someone please care to enlighten?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
or in brief, commonly found in piss poor motoring journalism...
or in brief, commonly found in piss poor motoring journalism...
One way is to think of the people you know, you'll probably regard a few as 'characters' they're brash, or funny, or completely non-pc. Apply that to cars, and you get the idea.
I don't really think any modern super/hypercar can be considered in that manner though. These days people spurt out words like 'soul' because they don't have anything better to say.
Countach? 288GTO? Ridiculous cars with flaws, character and brilliance in equal measure.
12C? Four-wheeled computer
I don't really think any modern super/hypercar can be considered in that manner though. These days people spurt out words like 'soul' because they don't have anything better to say.
Countach? 288GTO? Ridiculous cars with flaws, character and brilliance in equal measure.
12C? Four-wheeled computer
St John Smythe said:
Some cars have a certain something about them that you can't quite put your finger on, that's 'soul'. But if you don't get it, then you never will IMO. 
The problem is that "certain something" is only relevant to the individual in question, we dont all like the same thing so the whole concept of an inanimate object having "soul" is laughable.My mk3 fiesta 1.1 had what a lazy motoring journalist would call "soul", it was underpowerd and had no grip, you had to drive it flat out everywhere but it was fun because of its simplicity, to everyone else it was just a crappy old hatchback...
My 911 had soul but I imbued it with that soul in my head, the driver creates the character from what he feels, hears and sees.
It's all imaginary, it has to be!
Someone else might not think it had any at all, any car can have it as long as the driver feels it.
My take on the 12c is the journos couldn't find anything to attach soul to in their heads, hence the comments.
I'd love one though!
It's all imaginary, it has to be!
Someone else might not think it had any at all, any car can have it as long as the driver feels it.
My take on the 12c is the journos couldn't find anything to attach soul to in their heads, hence the comments.
I'd love one though!
Edited by Wills2 on Saturday 2nd March 23:57
Aside from having flaws / eccentricities that lend the vehicle a more human quality, i.e. elevating it in our minds beyond simple ruthlessly efficient robotic machinery, I think engine sound is the main other thing. Hence the 458 beating the MP4-12C despite both of them not really having many significant flaws by most accounts...
storminnorman said:
One way is to think of the people you know, you'll probably regard a few as 'characters' they're brash, or funny, or completely non-pc. Apply that to cars, and you get the idea.
I don't really think any modern super/hypercar can be considered in that manner though. These days people spurt out words like 'soul' because they don't have anything better to say.
Countach? 288GTO? Ridiculous cars with flaws, character and brilliance in equal measure.
12C? Four-wheeled computer
That's an interesting way to think about "character", completely anthropomorphise it, as a poster above mentions. So if 'character' can be thought of as quirks of personalities, why does being a "four-wheeled computer" not characterful? I don't really think any modern super/hypercar can be considered in that manner though. These days people spurt out words like 'soul' because they don't have anything better to say.
Countach? 288GTO? Ridiculous cars with flaws, character and brilliance in equal measure.
12C? Four-wheeled computer
To my mind, that has got to be the greatest compliment being given to the 12C.
Dr Z said:
That's an interesting way to think about "character", completely anthropomorphise it, as a poster above mentions. So if 'character' can be thought of as quirks of personalities, why does being a "four-wheeled computer" not characterful?
To my mind, that has got to be the greatest compliment being given to the 12C.
Would it be fair to say that, by and large, people that are exceptionally good at everything aren't generally as likeable / relatable as those that have the odd 'quirk'? Possibly the same with cars?To my mind, that has got to be the greatest compliment being given to the 12C.
Equally, if the car is so perfect, you, the sack of meat in the middle, aren't really pulling your weight, or frankly particularly necessary. Basically, in the whole system, you're the weak link, which isn't that rewarding if you're looking for 'character' in a car.
If a car has a few weaknesses, those are then the areas that you learn and work around, and in doing so establish a familiarity with the car, and you as the driver are then an integral part of making the whole system work better than just the mechanical bits...
Admittedly, if you're just interested in 'making progress' as fast and as easily as possible (and presumably lust after fast Audis / 911 Turbos) then this 'character' twaddle is just an excuse silly humans drum up for their inferior machines problems.
Get into a car, start the engine and drive away. If it is an event in itself then that is that certain "soul" that you may be referring to. I love cars and everytime I get into mine I have that special feeling. The sound of it starting, the quality of the interior, the handling and the power are just something to behold. I guess it is an everyday supercar, there really must be such a buzz getting into a top end Ferrari and Lambo and using it to do the odd business trip!
Wills2 said:
My 911 had soul but I imbued it with that soul in my head, the driver creates the character from what he feels, hears and sees.
It's all imaginary, it has to be!
Someone else might not think it had any at all, any car can have it as long as the driver feels it.
My take on the 12c is the journos couldn't find anything to attach soul to in their heads, hence the comments.
I'd love one though!
It's perfectly acceptable for a person to say they 'feel' a connection to a particular car like that, but when they couldn't connect with it, it isn't a fault of the car surely? The thing I don't agree with is when a reviewer makes a big deal out of it, making it a negative point about the car but fails to acknowledge the very subjective nature of this.It's all imaginary, it has to be!
Someone else might not think it had any at all, any car can have it as long as the driver feels it.
My take on the 12c is the journos couldn't find anything to attach soul to in their heads, hence the comments.
I'd love one though!
SturdyHSV said:
Aside from having flaws / eccentricities that lend the vehicle a more human quality, i.e. elevating it in our minds beyond simple ruthlessly efficient robotic machinery, I think engine sound is the main other thing. Hence the 458 beating the MP4-12C despite both of them not really having many significant flaws by most accounts...
Interesting you say that, indeed engine sound is a huge part of 'character'. Again highlighting the subjective nature of this but initially I didn't the 12C's engine sound, after hearing a 12C Spider that apparently comes with a lot updates to improve this I've really grown to like it and I never liked the 458's at all! I notice a real complexity to the 12C's sound through the rev-range whilst the 458 just sounds like the same obnoxious sound getting louder and louder. 
SturdyHSV said:
Would it be fair to say that, by and large, people that are exceptionally good at everything aren't generally as likeable / relatable as those that have the odd 'quirk'? Possibly the same with cars?
Equally, if the car is so perfect, you, the sack of meat in the middle, aren't really pulling your weight, or frankly particularly necessary. Basically, in the whole system, you're the weak link, which isn't that rewarding if you're looking for 'character' in a car.
If a car has a few weaknesses, those are then the areas that you learn and work around, and in doing so establish a familiarity with the car, and you as the driver are then an integral part of making the whole system work better than just the mechanical bits...
Admittedly, if you're just interested in 'making progress' as fast and as easily as possible (and presumably lust after fast Audis / 911 Turbos) then this 'character' twaddle is just an excuse silly humans drum up for their inferior machines problems.
Good comments, I think that makes sense. Equally, if the car is so perfect, you, the sack of meat in the middle, aren't really pulling your weight, or frankly particularly necessary. Basically, in the whole system, you're the weak link, which isn't that rewarding if you're looking for 'character' in a car.
If a car has a few weaknesses, those are then the areas that you learn and work around, and in doing so establish a familiarity with the car, and you as the driver are then an integral part of making the whole system work better than just the mechanical bits...
Admittedly, if you're just interested in 'making progress' as fast and as easily as possible (and presumably lust after fast Audis / 911 Turbos) then this 'character' twaddle is just an excuse silly humans drum up for their inferior machines problems.
Now on to the next. What about "emotion" or even "Italian passion", now that really gets my goat!
It's difficult to define, unless you are a JC hater he wrote a very good book on it and machines which have it;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Know-You-Got-Soul/dp/014...
Unless you already know you would never guess the car he chose in the book....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Know-You-Got-Soul/dp/014...
Unless you already know you would never guess the car he chose in the book....
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