Is it legal to overtake this dustman here?

[M4cruiser]

.. i.e. if it's on a temporary stop to do bins:

[430T]

Doubt the police would really have much to say about it if you did tbh.

[Westy Pre-Lit]

Is it safe to do so ?

[Jimbo.]

"Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less."

Highway Code. I suspect this falls into "Road maintenance". Although I see they've removed the "...AND displaying a flashing yellow light" criteria.

[yellowjack]

M4cruiser said:

.. i.e. if it's on a temporary stop to do bins:

You really should make it your business to know this.......

Highway Code Rule #129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle , or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

No excuse now: https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/highway-code

ETA: Looks like Jimbo beat me to it.

Edited by yellowjack on Sunday 3rd March 22:31

[Benbay001]

Jimbo. said:

to pass a stationary vehicle

Surely it falls into this category?

[KungFuPanda]

Erm yeah, that's why it's underlined.

[Benbay001]

KungFuPanda said:

Erm yeah, that's why it's underlined.

... it was edited -_-

[M4cruiser]

Ok, thank you yellowjack, I'll make it my business to know this ...!!

At the time I was waiting there I was thinking of the moving horse, bike or road maintenance bit, and was the road "clear". Was doubtful about the stationary vehicle bit because the dustman driver was still in the cab and moving it forward suddenly from time to time - so I didn't want to get stranded out there with something heading for me.
There's also the junctions and the slight left hand bend to consider.

This is what happened:-



.. but also the car behind me started to come past me and had to brake suddenly when he saw the oncoming car.

I didn't see the problem with waiting until the bin men were past the solid line, then also the road was straighter and I went past them.

[simoid]

If the lorry moves and a police officer sees you, you're in the firing line for an FPN.

[mjb1]

simoid said:

If the lorry moves and a police officer sees you, you're in the firing line for an FPN.

Shouldn't the bin lorry driver wait for passing cars to complete before rejoining the traffic?

[New POD]

simoid said:

If the lorry moves and a police officer sees you, you're in the firing line for an FPN.

Does the driver of the Lorry, not have a moral duty to help you overtake (by waving you into the path of an oncoming police car) ?

[fangio]

Not if it's doing less than 10mph....

[vonhosen]

fangio said:

Not if it's doing less than 10mph....

Passing the vehicle in the photo whilst it's doing less than 10 miles an hour is still an offence in law. It isn't a road maintenance vehicle displaying the required sign to the rear.

[yellowjack]

Revisiting this thread, because I got caught out last week. Nothing to do with solid white lines, but everything to do with dustcarts. Two of them.

It happened here { http://goo.gl/maps/d4QFC } as I was driving home at 0715hrs on bin day. There was what appeared to be a single bin lorry doing it's thing on the approach to the bend. I thought I did all the right things - I waited at some distance, to allow myself a longer look if/when I decided to pass, I waited for the crew to cross the road with the bins, I waited until I was certain that there was no oncoming traffic. When I was sure the road ahead was clear, and I could reasonably expect it to remain clear, I pulled out and made the overtake.

Only to find a second bin lorry directly ahead of the first! They had been tucked up close, presumably for the crews to communicate with one another, I don't really know, nor care. What I did know, and care deeply about, was I had been caught napping, was now exposed to oncoming traffic, on the approach to a bend, halfway along the length of two lorries. I had completely missed the second truck, presumably due to the viewing angle from my seat, and the close proximity of the trucks to one another.

What to do? Continuing around both trucks wasn't a good idea on a left-hand bend. Reversing up wasn't an option as the two cars behind me had all decided to "follow-on". To make matters worse I now had a better view around the nearside of the lead dustcart, and could see that there was traffic approaching ahead. Fortunately, the reason for the improved view between the trucks was that the first one had started to move off. I pushed the middle pedal, and fell in behind him, taking me out of any potential conflict with oncoming traffic. As he moved forward, more space opened between me and the stationary cart behind me, allowing the "follow-on" drivers to get in as well. The chap who came around the corner ahead wasn't too pleased to have to pull up rather sharply to avoid colliding head-on with one of my "followers", but no harm was done.

Now. I know that I was completely at fault. The bin crew were simply doing their job. I normally show patience and due diligence when overtaking their vehicles, and it's appreciated by the crews when I wave them across ahead of me with the bins. I would not normally countenance an overtake on a bend, and I was in no rabid rush to get anywhere particular. Maybe I had felt pressured by the driver behind, who had been demonstrating his impatience visibly, or maybe I went for it because the truck had been stationary for longer than it usually would have. I have been in situations where the driver behind has decided that I'm too patient and overtaken both me and the obstruction. Maybe I allowed my decision to be swayed by the desire not to be thought of as a 'knob' by the guy behind.

Whatever it was that prompted me to take a risk, lesson learned. I suppose the moral of the story is "be careful out there, and expect the unexpected".

[simoid]

Shirley you could see the second truck when you moved out to the other side of the road, before accelerating past the first one?

[yellowjack]

simoid said:

Shirley you could see the second truck when you moved out to the other side of the road, before accelerating past the first one?

But that's my point about expecting the unexpected. I pass three bin wagons every Wednesday morning, at some point on their rounds, but there has, up until last week, never been a situation where there has been more than one in the same place. Maybe the second truck WAS there to be seen. I DID look around the first one. BUT. Human nature being what it is, if you don't expect to see the extraordinary, sometimes it takes a while for the brain to process the information. Also, when I moved out to pass, I probably did realise it was there quite quickly, BUT, the guy in the car behind me was quite obviously relying on my judgement to make HIS overtake, and by the time I realised the second truck was there I had no space in which to get behind the first one, and a BMW on my rear bumper, which does not make 'decisive' braking comfortable. In the end I was lucky not to be left stranded in the oncoming lane, only because the 'lead' truck moved off.

I think part of my thought process for posting this was to try to make people think beyond simply what is, or isn't, legal. It may well be legal to pass a stationary vehicle by going across the solid line, but too many drivers will follow the first one like sheep, then start shaking the beans when someone coming in the opposite direction (who has priority) takes offence to their idiocy.

[covboy]

To expand the post a little more, I had the situation a while back, early morning (just after 6:00am) came across a cart actually straddling a zebra crossing, waiting for the bins to be loaded.

In this instance I couldn’t pass anyway due to there being a central reservation to the crossing, but made me wonder, if they were in the habit of doing this on an open crossings a) could/should they be “done” b) would a driver be prosecuted for overtaking – even if it’s safe to do so?

[yellowjack]

covboy said:

To expand the post a little more, I had the situation a while back, early morning (just after 6:00am) came across a cart actually straddling a zebra crossing, waiting for the bins to be loaded.

In this instance I couldn’t pass anyway due to there being a central reservation to the crossing, but made me wonder, if they were in the habit of doing this on an open crossings a) could/should they be “done” b) would a driver be prosecuted for overtaking – even if it’s safe to do so?

I should hope that if they were observed by a Police officer stopping ON a crossing to load bins, then they would, at the very least be 'warned' and moved on. As far as I was aware, stopping on a crossing is a complete no-no, and that a vehicle should not halt within the bounds of the zig-zags for any reason except to allow pedestrians to cross, or because the road is not clear on the far side of the crossing. Certainly, overtaking a vehicle which has stopped at a crossing is illegal. This could well be ignorance/arrogance/laziness on the part of the cart driver. I can't see that the local council would be too pleased to see an image of their dustcart obstructing a crossing flashed around the 'net. I am sure that the 'correct' thing to do would be for them to pull up ahead of, or beyond, the crossing, and move the bins further to the wagon. It's not exactly rocket surgery, but I sometimes suspect that if they've been on the receiving end of muppetry from other drivers, they may be tempted to 'act the arse' where they can, to exact a little revenge?

[GTIR]

My old man's a dustman.