Custom Billet Flywheel to replace DMF
Discussion
It appears that the dual mass flywheel has just died on my Defender and the replacement original part is getting on for a grand (still 700 quid for a LUK OEM jobbie) and is probably excessive given that it's a petrol. Sadly there's no kit for the diesel engine that gave my rare variant its bellhousing and clutch arrangement, but there is friction plate that fits with the existing pressure plate but would require a custom flywheel.
Anyone got any recommendations for someone that could do this?
Anyone got any recommendations for someone that could do this?
I'm not sure I'd be expecting a custom fabricated solid billet flywheel to come in at much less than £700 to be honest, not to mention the lead time when the car will be out of use until it is made.
There's also the issue of whether or not the engine and gearbox will happily work without the DMF.
A new LUK DMF will probably last better than the original did, you can source one at a day's notice, It's probably covered by a manufacturer's warranty, and it comes without detriment to your interior noise and vibration levels. You know it works and Land Rover designed the rest of the drivetrain with it in mind.
Furthermore I ca't imagine many garages would be happy to fit a part you have provided yourself, particularly some highly experimental custom made jobby- the last thing they want is you coming back complaining about the excessive noise or vibration a week later!
There's also the issue of whether or not the engine and gearbox will happily work without the DMF.
A new LUK DMF will probably last better than the original did, you can source one at a day's notice, It's probably covered by a manufacturer's warranty, and it comes without detriment to your interior noise and vibration levels. You know it works and Land Rover designed the rest of the drivetrain with it in mind.
Furthermore I ca't imagine many garages would be happy to fit a part you have provided yourself, particularly some highly experimental custom made jobby- the last thing they want is you coming back complaining about the excessive noise or vibration a week later!
Perhaps I should have given a bit more info, it's a South African spec Defender with the BMW 2.8i M52 petrol engine of which there are a couple of thousand knocking around (and only a dozen or so in the UK). It's effectively a parts bin special which uses the complete bellhousing, input shaft, clutch and dual mass flywheel arrangement from the P38 2.5 TD Manual. The equivalent BMW flywheels will not fit without modifying various other components, it has to be the 2.5 TD manual arrangement (which helpfully is also quite rare!)
Apparently it's a common (as far as it can be for such a low volume variant) swap in SA to use a solid flywheel with a 300Tdi heavy duty friction plate which has a sprung centre and should avoid any transmission issues short of a noisy idle from the sound of things. The only thing I would worry about is crank issues but I haven't managed to find any examples of this engine in a BMW suffering that fate after a DMF delete (although happy to be corrected).
Also, the flywheel costs a similar amount to a gearbox rebuild and has only lasted 50k. The gearbox was rebuilt recently because of a misdiagnosis of the DMF so it should be in good shape.
Lead time however is an issue as I've returned it to the road after a 3 year layup and an 18 month rebuild and respray. I don't want it to be hanging around in bits for a month while the flywheel is being cut.
Apparently it's a common (as far as it can be for such a low volume variant) swap in SA to use a solid flywheel with a 300Tdi heavy duty friction plate which has a sprung centre and should avoid any transmission issues short of a noisy idle from the sound of things. The only thing I would worry about is crank issues but I haven't managed to find any examples of this engine in a BMW suffering that fate after a DMF delete (although happy to be corrected).
Also, the flywheel costs a similar amount to a gearbox rebuild and has only lasted 50k. The gearbox was rebuilt recently because of a misdiagnosis of the DMF so it should be in good shape.
Lead time however is an issue as I've returned it to the road after a 3 year layup and an 18 month rebuild and respray. I don't want it to be hanging around in bits for a month while the flywheel is being cut.
stevieturbo said:
Looking on Euro car parts for a 1999 2.8 5 series BMW for a DMF, they seem to be retailing it at around £360 for an LUK.
If you can find somewhere else selling it, or someone in the trade, actual cost will be some 20-30% less than that
Sadly that DMF isn't the right item, only the Range Rover one will fit and I'm guessing it's expensive as it's a lot lower volumeIf you can find somewhere else selling it, or someone in the trade, actual cost will be some 20-30% less than that
stevieturbo said:
Looking on Euro car parts for a 1999 2.8 5 series BMW for a DMF, they seem to be retailing it at around £360 for an LUK.
Which he has just said will not fit as the DMF comes from the 2.5TD Defender engine. Personally I wouldn't have any worries fitting a solid flywheel to a 6 cylinder petrol engine. A DMF is primarily to protect the transmission rather than the crank - high frequency torsional vibration is dealt with by the damper at the crank pulley end. The DMF absorbs the low frequency torque variations to provide a smooth torque input to the gearbox. A 6 cylinder petrol will have a far smoother torque delivery than e.g. a 4 cylinder turbo diesel, so I'm slightly surprised they even bothered to fit one on what is a pretty unrefined car. I suppose it it was a parts bin special then it was probably cheaper just to fit whatever was at hand rather than designing a custom part.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 5th March 10:52
The Wookie said:
Perhaps I should have given a bit more info, it's a South African spec Defender with the BMW 2.8i M52 petrol engine of which there are a couple of thousand knocking around (and only a dozen or so in the UK). It's effectively a parts bin special which uses the complete bellhousing, input shaft, clutch and dual mass flywheel arrangement from the P38 2.5 TD Manual. The equivalent BMW flywheels will not fit without modifying various other components, it has to be the 2.5 TD manual arrangement (which helpfully is also quite rare!)
Apparently it's a common (as far as it can be for such a low volume variant) swap in SA to use a solid flywheel with a 300Tdi heavy duty friction plate which has a sprung centre and should avoid any transmission issues short of a noisy idle from the sound of things. The only thing I would worry about is crank issues but I haven't managed to find any examples of this engine in a BMW suffering that fate after a DMF delete (although happy to be corrected).
Also, the flywheel costs a similar amount to a gearbox rebuild and has only lasted 50k. The gearbox was rebuilt recently because of a misdiagnosis of the DMF so it should be in good shape.
Lead time however is an issue as I've returned it to the road after a 3 year layup and an 18 month rebuild and respray. I don't want it to be hanging around in bits for a month while the flywheel is being cut.
Is it not possible to get a FW where the other people are getting them from? Can you get an appropriate FW to copy, or is it a case of measuring, setting it out and drawing one?Apparently it's a common (as far as it can be for such a low volume variant) swap in SA to use a solid flywheel with a 300Tdi heavy duty friction plate which has a sprung centre and should avoid any transmission issues short of a noisy idle from the sound of things. The only thing I would worry about is crank issues but I haven't managed to find any examples of this engine in a BMW suffering that fate after a DMF delete (although happy to be corrected).
Also, the flywheel costs a similar amount to a gearbox rebuild and has only lasted 50k. The gearbox was rebuilt recently because of a misdiagnosis of the DMF so it should be in good shape.
Lead time however is an issue as I've returned it to the road after a 3 year layup and an 18 month rebuild and respray. I don't want it to be hanging around in bits for a month while the flywheel is being cut.
Getting an actual FW made is easy and relatively cheap for me, but you're going to struggle with the other criteria.
Evoluzione said:
Is it not possible to get a FW where the other people are getting them from? Can you get an appropriate FW to copy, or is it a case of measuring, setting it out and drawing one?
Getting an actual FW made is easy and relatively cheap for me, but you're going to struggle with the other criteria.
Last record I can find of the solid flywheel is about 2 years ago and it's a company in SA so that's a bit of an issue Getting an actual FW made is easy and relatively cheap for me, but you're going to struggle with the other criteria.
Even 2nd hand DMF's are a hundred or more quid, so really it can only be the original which is in the car.
Looks like it's going to be a new DMF then! Perhaps I'll keep the old one in case it dies again in the future, that way I can replicate a solid one.
Thanks chaps, much appreciated
£516 for a P38 2.5 DMF - http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Land+Rover_R...
They don't have anything listed under Solid Flywheel Conversion.
Ignore if I've missed the jist...
They don't have anything listed under Solid Flywheel Conversion.
Ignore if I've missed the jist...
Dave^ said:
£516 for a P38 2.5 DMF - http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Land+Rover_R...
They don't have anything listed under Solid Flywheel Conversion.
Ignore if I've missed the jist...
Superb find, thank you very much They don't have anything listed under Solid Flywheel Conversion.
Ignore if I've missed the jist...
That's over 150 quid cheaper than I found after a good search.
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