Another prospective E46 M3 owner...
Discussion
Hello all,
Long time PH'er but my first post in the M Power section.
I've decided it's time to buy myself a toy that can handle my short daily commute (10 mile round trip to train station), weekend fun and possibly the occasional track day (probably 5K miles a year altogether).
Played with a few 2 seater ideas but eventually came to the conclusion that with 2 kids I still want something that I can get them both in (they're 9 & 12 and love cars) and that can carry bikes/golf clubs/weekend away gear when required.
I had an e46 330i (2001) approx 10 years ago and to this day it's probably still my favourite car that I've owned so my mind was lead inevitably to the M3.
I've been doing a lot of reading up on the subject over the last week or so and think I have decided on what spec of car I'm after (approx £9-10K budget) but just wanted to clarify a few things if possible.
1) I'm very much leaning toward the coupe as I've never been a convertible fan, but I must say I really do like the look of the M3 cab and there are quite a few available in my budget with better mileage/spec than similar coupe's (including hardtops). How compromised are they dynamically/practically compared to the coupe?
2) I was quite tempted by the SMGII box as I do like paddle shifters but having investigated it appears that pump failures with £2K costs attached are quite regular. Is this the usual overstated internet hype, or would I be crazy to buy anything other than a manual?
I'm sure there are more questions but that'll do for starters.
Thanks all for any replies.
Long time PH'er but my first post in the M Power section.
I've decided it's time to buy myself a toy that can handle my short daily commute (10 mile round trip to train station), weekend fun and possibly the occasional track day (probably 5K miles a year altogether).
Played with a few 2 seater ideas but eventually came to the conclusion that with 2 kids I still want something that I can get them both in (they're 9 & 12 and love cars) and that can carry bikes/golf clubs/weekend away gear when required.
I had an e46 330i (2001) approx 10 years ago and to this day it's probably still my favourite car that I've owned so my mind was lead inevitably to the M3.
I've been doing a lot of reading up on the subject over the last week or so and think I have decided on what spec of car I'm after (approx £9-10K budget) but just wanted to clarify a few things if possible.
1) I'm very much leaning toward the coupe as I've never been a convertible fan, but I must say I really do like the look of the M3 cab and there are quite a few available in my budget with better mileage/spec than similar coupe's (including hardtops). How compromised are they dynamically/practically compared to the coupe?
2) I was quite tempted by the SMGII box as I do like paddle shifters but having investigated it appears that pump failures with £2K costs attached are quite regular. Is this the usual overstated internet hype, or would I be crazy to buy anything other than a manual?
I'm sure there are more questions but that'll do for starters.
Thanks all for any replies.
I've just found an interesting recent thread on m3cutters with regards to the SMG pump issue here
Apparently a few owners have had their SMG Pump replaced in this way and at £850 fitted with a 12 month warranty it isn't quite as worrying as £2K+ at a dealer, especially if SMG cars are commanding £500-1000 less than equivalent manual cars and there is no guarantee the fault will ocur anyway?
Apparently a few owners have had their SMG Pump replaced in this way and at £850 fitted with a 12 month warranty it isn't quite as worrying as £2K+ at a dealer, especially if SMG cars are commanding £500-1000 less than equivalent manual cars and there is no guarantee the fault will ocur anyway?
Pumps going are a little hyped up, it's one of those things that's very expensive to replace so people always talk about it.
Cracked boot flaws is fairly common, make sure any car you're looking at has either had an inspection or the floor repaired. Ideally you want one which has already been done as the "fix" strengthens the floor so it doesn't happen again.
Other than that, go and enjoy Buy on service history and condition rather than mileage, now these are sub 10k they're falling into the wrong hands who don't like to service them and like to wipe miles off them.
Cracked boot flaws is fairly common, make sure any car you're looking at has either had an inspection or the floor repaired. Ideally you want one which has already been done as the "fix" strengthens the floor so it doesn't happen again.
Other than that, go and enjoy
Buy on service history and condition rather than mileage, now these are sub 10k they're falling into the wrong hands who don't like to service them and like to wipe miles off them.Thanks chaps. I've watched a couple of YT vids regarding the subframe cracks and how to spot them and my FIL/BIL are both good mechanics and will be on hand when checking a prospective purchase over so should be OK.
I'm looking at cars < 10 years old (facelift cars) so if there were issues are BMW still fixing them as a goodwill gesture?
I was assuming that was the case with the SMGII and TBH I'm very tempted as it really does appeal to me as I'm not someone who bemoans the demise of the manual gearbox TBH. As I say they do appear to be a cheaper to buy than an equivilant manual car so could easily put the difference aside towards a pump recon if required.
Still unsure on the convertible side of things...
+ Makes driving more of an 'event' especially with the kids
+ Cheaper to buy
+ I like the looks with roof up and down.
- Heavier, ride/handling/acceleration all affected however little.
- Automatically look like a poser and people will hate you (don't give a s
t personally)
- Noisy on a run
- Less practical
- Less secure
Decision, decisions...
I'm looking at cars < 10 years old (facelift cars) so if there were issues are BMW still fixing them as a goodwill gesture?
I was assuming that was the case with the SMGII and TBH I'm very tempted as it really does appeal to me as I'm not someone who bemoans the demise of the manual gearbox TBH. As I say they do appear to be a cheaper to buy than an equivilant manual car so could easily put the difference aside towards a pump recon if required.
Still unsure on the convertible side of things...
+ Makes driving more of an 'event' especially with the kids
+ Cheaper to buy
+ I like the looks with roof up and down.
- Heavier, ride/handling/acceleration all affected however little.
- Automatically look like a poser and people will hate you (don't give a s
t personally)- Noisy on a run
- Less practical
- Less secure
Decision, decisions...
Buy a manual vert, your kids will love it, so will the wife. Leave the chassis flex @nal retentives in your dust.
Seriously ...just buy it. Nothing on this planet can touch the package for smiles per mile and you won't loose much when its time to move on, if its been well looked after. Enjoy !
Seriously ...just buy it. Nothing on this planet can touch the package for smiles per mile and you won't loose much when its time to move on, if its been well looked after. Enjoy !
I think the coupe is a better looking car, personally. Looks a bit more grown up.
The convertible always looks a bit too much like something an habitual wife beater with their own small business allied to the building trade has bought hs wife by way of apology for the last time he gave her a black eye.
I may be overthinking it though.
The convertible always looks a bit too much like something an habitual wife beater with their own small business allied to the building trade has bought hs wife by way of apology for the last time he gave her a black eye.
I may be overthinking it though.
VinceFox said:
I think the coupe is a better looking car, personally. Looks a bit more grown up.
The convertible always looks a bit too much like something an habitual wife beater with their own small business allied to the building trade has bought hs wife by way of apology for the last time he gave her a black eye.
I may be overthinking it though.
I do know what you mean Vince. The convertible always looks a bit too much like something an habitual wife beater with their own small business allied to the building trade has bought hs wife by way of apology for the last time he gave her a black eye.
I may be overthinking it though.
Been giving it a lot of thought on the long, boring train ride home and TBH adding the together the dynamic and practicality issues, possibility of vadalism (I live in a nice area but the train station I park at to commute from isn't the best), and the added complexity/possible expense of the roof mechanism has convinced me to ditch the convertible idea and focus on coupes.
Anyway chaps I think I may have found a nice one to have a look at this week.
Late 53 plate (facelift + fixes)
SMGII (manual cars with same spec are £1K dearer and like paddleshift anyway)
62K
19" Alloys
FBMWSH
No HK Audio/Satnav/Heated seats (which suits me fine TBH, not going to be doing the miles to worry about gadgets and I'd rather have less electrics to go wrong anyway)
Silver + Black Leather (Want something reatively understated - not a fan of yellow/blue/red)
Totally original
£8.5K
I've e-mailed the dealer to get some extra info on SH (garages, last service type, when is next due), tyres (brand/model, tread depth left) and any recalls/invoices for work carried out (suframe fix, recent brakes, alternator, water pump etc.)
Once I get that lot back, if I'm happy I might pop over for a look on Wednesday.
gaz1234 said:
avoid smg.
check subframe, else they are brill!
No need to avoid SMG if you go in with your eyes open and have a good indy nearby. I wouldn't have anything but SMG in mine, it just works so well with the car.check subframe, else they are brill!
Subframe cracks are over-hyped imo, but they are out there. Buy within the 10 year goodwill period with good history and avoid mods and you should be fine. If not there are after-market repairers out there who can deal with this for far cheaper than BMW will charge.
Cue SMG and subframe problems on mine
My SMG lasted 118k miles before it failed. I think if the car has done 70k+ and has not had a new pump you just need to be aware that it could cost you £1700 for a good Indy to replace. I had mine done a year ago (Phil at CPC) and never now worry about that little yellow cog light coming on again. I love the SMG, it just adds another dimension to the driving experience, you cant beat that thump in the back from a quick change at full chat, also the blips on downshift are a joy. This is only a rough guide though, so please don't take 70k milea as the magic number, mine did nearly 50k more than that before it went.
I also had subframe done under warranty by BMW with just 6 months of the warranty period left.
Personally I prefer coupe over vert pretty much for the reasons stated above, but I still rate them.
Just buy one, you'll love it. I've have mine for nearly 2 years and still look forward to every time I get in to drive it, and that is from someone who got typically gets bored of a car in about 10 months.
I also had subframe done under warranty by BMW with just 6 months of the warranty period left.
Personally I prefer coupe over vert pretty much for the reasons stated above, but I still rate them.
Just buy one, you'll love it. I've have mine for nearly 2 years and still look forward to every time I get in to drive it, and that is from someone who got typically gets bored of a car in about 10 months.
Thanks for all the replies chaps, I've never been so excited at a prospective car purchase. Too many years of sensible cars because of big mileage and young kids...
Having found out about the option to get the SMG Pump replaced with a recon unit for £850 all in if it fails and the fact that they are considerably cheaper than the manual I'm very tempted to go that way. The car wil either be cruising at 70 for a few miles on a dual carriageway on it's way to the station during the week or being enjoyed on b-roads at the weekend and as I said earlier I really do like the idea of the SMG box.
Hopefully the dealer I have e-mailed will get back to me in the morning and I'll take it from there. Not going to rush into anything, but it does appear to be a good un from what I can tell at the moment.
If it passes all of the initial checks has anyone got a recommendation for a midlands based indie who could be trusted to give it an pre-purchase inspection and handle ongoing maintenance?
I've owned BMW's for the past 10 years or so (E46, E90, E60) and after the latest debacle with ignition coils/injectors etc. on the wifes E61 5 Series at 4 years old I've lost all faith in BMW UK and their dealerships. Funny things is I said to the wife I'd never buy another....
Too many years of sensible cars because of big mileage and young kids...Having found out about the option to get the SMG Pump replaced with a recon unit for £850 all in if it fails and the fact that they are considerably cheaper than the manual I'm very tempted to go that way. The car wil either be cruising at 70 for a few miles on a dual carriageway on it's way to the station during the week or being enjoyed on b-roads at the weekend and as I said earlier I really do like the idea of the SMG box.
Hopefully the dealer I have e-mailed will get back to me in the morning and I'll take it from there. Not going to rush into anything, but it does appear to be a good un from what I can tell at the moment.
If it passes all of the initial checks has anyone got a recommendation for a midlands based indie who could be trusted to give it an pre-purchase inspection and handle ongoing maintenance?
I've owned BMW's for the past 10 years or so (E46, E90, E60) and after the latest debacle with ignition coils/injectors etc. on the wifes E61 5 Series at 4 years old I've lost all faith in BMW UK and their dealerships. Funny things is I said to the wife I'd never buy another....
Edited by SWoll on Monday 4th March 23:39
161BMW said:
Manual is good and SMG is brilliant. Avoid the nay slayers about SMG. Though have a bit in the bank or BMW Warranty in case SMG plays up
BMW want £2500+ a year for a warranty. 
Looked into third party warranties (WW,WD) and on a 10 year old car they only cover the basics so the SMG Pump etc. are not included. They still want £750+ a year for the privelege though...
If I do go SMG I'll just put a few quid in a slush fund and add to it monthly I think, as well as getting all of the relays/switches etc. replaced straight away for piece of mind.
Is there a straight forward way of gauging clutch wear with the SMG box?
I'm not sure there's anyway, I can't even remember seeing clutch wear in the basic ODBC software you can run from your laptop.
As a rule, assuming the car hasn't been launch controlled constantly, the SMG clutch should out last the manual as the computer doesn't allow much slip. Obviously, as with the manual, it depends on previous owners.
As a rule, assuming the car hasn't been launch controlled constantly, the SMG clutch should out last the manual as the computer doesn't allow much slip. Obviously, as with the manual, it depends on previous owners.
I'm the opposite, in I had a manual coupe until recently, and had it for two years.
Didn't want a convertible, though they do look nice, as I had an e30 convertible once and I hated it. Just felt exposed, noisy and on a long journey the noise of other traffic got on my nerves. Enjoyed having the top down, but would soon put it up again.
SMG Gearbox would worry me-I'd be constantly worrying about it packing up, even if nothing wrong, a bit like I would the Vanos on an E36 M3.
But it was a great car, and you feel a bit like you are chained to a maniac when going for it.
However, since I've sold mine, I love not having the urge to clean it, or worry about where I park it if I go anywhere.
Do seem to worry a lot, don't I?
I was lucky in I bought a great example to start with, and I would never get tired of driving it.
Did have a 330 Sport Touring last winter as an everyday car, and just nowhere near the raw experience the M3 brings.
Tyres, and tyre pressures can make a big difference to the feel and ride in these cars as well.
Enjoy!
Didn't want a convertible, though they do look nice, as I had an e30 convertible once and I hated it. Just felt exposed, noisy and on a long journey the noise of other traffic got on my nerves. Enjoyed having the top down, but would soon put it up again.
SMG Gearbox would worry me-I'd be constantly worrying about it packing up, even if nothing wrong, a bit like I would the Vanos on an E36 M3.
But it was a great car, and you feel a bit like you are chained to a maniac when going for it.
However, since I've sold mine, I love not having the urge to clean it, or worry about where I park it if I go anywhere.
Do seem to worry a lot, don't I?
I was lucky in I bought a great example to start with, and I would never get tired of driving it.
Did have a 330 Sport Touring last winter as an everyday car, and just nowhere near the raw experience the M3 brings.
Tyres, and tyre pressures can make a big difference to the feel and ride in these cars as well.
Enjoy!
Thanks BC, really looking forward to it as the rawer nature is exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm fortunate in the fact that I don't rely on my car particularly. I can easily get taxi's to/from the train station (and put them through expenses) and the wife has a E61 5 series for weekend/family duties so if the worst was to happen and it took a while to get it sorted it wouldn't be a big problem.
Your comments about having OCD about cleaning, fettling and parking and the fact you're feeling better now it's gone made me chuckle. I really want a car that makes me feel that way for a change. Having finally given up smoking in the new year after 20 years I need something to focus my attention and new found energy levels on.
I'm fortunate in the fact that I don't rely on my car particularly. I can easily get taxi's to/from the train station (and put them through expenses) and the wife has a E61 5 series for weekend/family duties so if the worst was to happen and it took a while to get it sorted it wouldn't be a big problem.
Your comments about having OCD about cleaning, fettling and parking and the fact you're feeling better now it's gone made me chuckle. I really want a car that makes me feel that way for a change. Having finally given up smoking in the new year after 20 years I need something to focus my attention and new found energy levels on.
If your budget allows, try and aim for a 2005 or newer model.
It shares the same suspension as a CS
and I've read on a few forums that they also have an uprated manifold, so a small increase in power (approx. 5-7hp)
Again don't worry about SMG failures, 85 000 M3's where built worldwide, IMO failure rate is probably 1 in 1000?
It is great to have, and definitely suits the cars character, but you have to adjust your driving style. As its not a manual nor a torque convertor auto.
It shares the same suspension as a CS
and I've read on a few forums that they also have an uprated manifold, so a small increase in power (approx. 5-7hp)
Again don't worry about SMG failures, 85 000 M3's where built worldwide, IMO failure rate is probably 1 in 1000?
It is great to have, and definitely suits the cars character, but you have to adjust your driving style. As its not a manual nor a torque convertor auto.
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