Best track days car: Elise S1 vs MX5 NA turbo
Discussion
I have two cars for my track days: A modded C5 corvette and a MX5 MK2 1.8 nearly stock. I use the C5 on big tracks and more recently I have started using the MX5 on small tracks.
I love the MX5 on small tracks compared to the Vette: it is not fast but small and handles absolutely as I like in the bends. Very predictible and fun. Of course, it lacks a bit of power to be really perfect.
Recently, My daughter started to take the MX for the track and I have been looking for a proper little-tracks car.
My hesitation is between a MX5 MK1 with a turbo, big brakes, coilovers, etc and a stock Elise S1 with proper tires. I have no doubt MX5 turbo will be massive fun, but will it really compete against S1?
I have promised to answer tomorrow to the MX guy.
MX5 and Elise S1 track pilots, can I have your help, please?
I love the MX5 on small tracks compared to the Vette: it is not fast but small and handles absolutely as I like in the bends. Very predictible and fun. Of course, it lacks a bit of power to be really perfect.
Recently, My daughter started to take the MX for the track and I have been looking for a proper little-tracks car.
My hesitation is between a MX5 MK1 with a turbo, big brakes, coilovers, etc and a stock Elise S1 with proper tires. I have no doubt MX5 turbo will be massive fun, but will it really compete against S1?
I have promised to answer tomorrow to the MX guy.
MX5 and Elise S1 track pilots, can I have your help, please?
Will you be keeping your mk2 MX5 or replacing it?
I wouldn't bothered with turbo MX-5 with all the extra gubbins as IMO takes away the cheap and cheerful USP of the car. If you can afford the S1, go for it. The S1's have very little power but I never get bored of squeezing every last inch out of that K-series engine
It is a much more precise tool compared to the MX5, however the '5s are still plenty of fun!
I wouldn't bothered with turbo MX-5 with all the extra gubbins as IMO takes away the cheap and cheerful USP of the car. If you can afford the S1, go for it. The S1's have very little power but I never get bored of squeezing every last inch out of that K-series engine
It is a much more precise tool compared to the MX5, however the '5s are still plenty of fun! I personally don't think the MX5 is as nice a steer as the S1.
It's certainly nowhere near as stiff.
Also prefer the steering on the Elise.
The K series sounds a lot nicer IMO, especially if you get a tweaked one (think 150-160bhp).
In favour of a turbo'd MX5, no doubt it'd be quicker at higher speeds, it'll have a much nicer gearchange, and unless you're a bloody good driver it's a better car for sideways action.
I'd imagine the MX5 would treat you better if you have no mechanical sympathy and never change the oil / do any maintenance, equally I've covered 40k miles in my Elise without any issues at all.
Friend has run a couple of different Elises as track only cars, and there have been no costly issues on any of them.
I think you'll have a lot of fun whichever you choose, but they're nothing like each other to drive.
It's certainly nowhere near as stiff.
Also prefer the steering on the Elise.
The K series sounds a lot nicer IMO, especially if you get a tweaked one (think 150-160bhp).
In favour of a turbo'd MX5, no doubt it'd be quicker at higher speeds, it'll have a much nicer gearchange, and unless you're a bloody good driver it's a better car for sideways action.
I'd imagine the MX5 would treat you better if you have no mechanical sympathy and never change the oil / do any maintenance, equally I've covered 40k miles in my Elise without any issues at all.
Friend has run a couple of different Elises as track only cars, and there have been no costly issues on any of them.
I think you'll have a lot of fun whichever you choose, but they're nothing like each other to drive.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Thursday 7th March 21:59
g40steve said:
I think your missing the point Boss 
Roddo has won the last three championships in his mk3, he has also built some of the most powerful & reliable mk 1's.
He knows more about mx5's than Mazda
The thing is: I will keep the mk2 as one of my daily drivers and for my daughter when we go on track. Roddo has won the last three championships in his mk3, he has also built some of the most powerful & reliable mk 1's.
He knows more about mx5's than Mazda
So I don't think an MK3 would make sense as an additional track car as it will be very close to my mk2.
A mk1 with a turbo, coilovers and bbk would be a very different ride I thougt but I may be wrong?
An Elise s1 surely is.
Bossv8 said:
I have two cars for my track days: A modded C5 corvette and a MX5 MK2 1.8 nearly stock. I use the C5 on big tracks and more recently I have started using the MX5 on small tracks.
I love the MX5 on small tracks compared to the Vette: it is not fast but small and handles absolutely as I like in the bends. Very predictible and fun. Of course, it lacks a bit of power to be really perfect.
Recently, My daughter started to take the MX for the track and I have been looking for a proper little-tracks car.
My hesitation is between a MX5 MK1 with a turbo, big brakes, coilovers, etc and a stock Elise S1 with proper tires. I have no doubt MX5 turbo will be massive fun, but will it really compete against S1?
I have promised to answer tomorrow to the MX guy.
MX5 and Elise S1 track pilots, can I have your help, please?
Quite qualified to answer having run a track day 265bhp mx5 for 3 years followed by a vx220 for a year. MX5 completely walks over the Lotus platform cars with lower n/a power, the power difference is too much for the much better braking and sharper handling Lotus to make up, no surprise really when the base K series is only 120bhp. I discovered Honda Elises only by approaching an Elise owner and asking what he'd done to it to make it as fast / faster than my MX5 (apart from him being a better driver). Bigger tracks the MX5 power means it'll even catch a Honda Elise, I did so round Silverstone (different one).I love the MX5 on small tracks compared to the Vette: it is not fast but small and handles absolutely as I like in the bends. Very predictible and fun. Of course, it lacks a bit of power to be really perfect.
Recently, My daughter started to take the MX for the track and I have been looking for a proper little-tracks car.
My hesitation is between a MX5 MK1 with a turbo, big brakes, coilovers, etc and a stock Elise S1 with proper tires. I have no doubt MX5 turbo will be massive fun, but will it really compete against S1?
I have promised to answer tomorrow to the MX guy.
MX5 and Elise S1 track pilots, can I have your help, please?
Smiles on here has an MX5 and a Honda Elise, he's that 1st Honda Elise owner that caused me surprise and lead to me getting a VX220.
- Elise/VX is more fun though and what I'd choose, I got bored of the mx5. Still have a new un-used fully forged very high spec MX5 engine in the garage, (should be fine to 400+bhp) £2K and its yours
- Assume the MX5 you are buying is sorted, i.e standalone ECU, well intercooled, correctly sized turbo, high volume rad, mapped by someone competent etc not an eBay bodge it job that many are (and last all of 5 minutes on track).
I'd just caught and passed that S1.
It was more equal to 996 Porsches - spent a whole session lapping with these two none of us made any ground on the other, the Silver one let me pass just before the end of session as I think his tyres were going off as he'd suddenly got quite ragged.
I think the Elise S1 makes more sense, now.
- What I hear the most from people going on track is that it is basically more fun on track than the MX5
- I can see the S1 is faster too, except with a heavily modified MX5 (250-270 power)
- Also, here in France, it is illegal to drive a modified engine on roads. Meaning I would take a risk each time I go to the track with a turbo MX5, not with the Elise
- I am sure the turboed mx5 I had in sight was properly prepared and reliable (it makes 190-200 hp with top quality parts and tuning) but I am sur I wouldn't be able to fix anything that went wrong with it and it would be difficult to find a proper specialist in my area
- the mx5 is half the price of the Elise (!) but the market price for the Elise is stable and supposed to get up because it has become an iconic car
- I already have a Corvette, and a mx5, so adding a different car (central engine, light) to the team makes more sense. A turboed mx5 would be just something between the C5 and the mx5 (more power than the mx5, less weight ans size than the C5). The Elise is something else.
Thanks for your comments.
- What I hear the most from people going on track is that it is basically more fun on track than the MX5
- I can see the S1 is faster too, except with a heavily modified MX5 (250-270 power)
- Also, here in France, it is illegal to drive a modified engine on roads. Meaning I would take a risk each time I go to the track with a turbo MX5, not with the Elise
- I am sure the turboed mx5 I had in sight was properly prepared and reliable (it makes 190-200 hp with top quality parts and tuning) but I am sur I wouldn't be able to fix anything that went wrong with it and it would be difficult to find a proper specialist in my area
- the mx5 is half the price of the Elise (!) but the market price for the Elise is stable and supposed to get up because it has become an iconic car
- I already have a Corvette, and a mx5, so adding a different car (central engine, light) to the team makes more sense. A turboed mx5 would be just something between the C5 and the mx5 (more power than the mx5, less weight ans size than the C5). The Elise is something else.
Thanks for your comments.
Edited by Bossv8 on Friday 8th March 10:11
I'm the Honda Elise (and s/c mx5) owner that Herman Toothrot was on about in his post (Hi Steve - we need a trackday soon!)
I've owned all sorts of varients of S1 elise as well as N/A and S/C'd MX5's.
In my experience the elise handles better than any high or low powered mx5 ever will.
I loved my mx5 s/c (pushing about 165bhp), but I'd still rather take a standard elise on track as the handling is what makes it, and I have my fun in the corners rather than the straight bits.
However, get the mx5 to 200bhp and it is A LOT of fun. Herman's mx5 when it was about 200bhp I think was great fun on track.
I opted for the best of both worlds, elise handling and a K20 Honda engine to give the elise a bit more kick!
I've owned all sorts of varients of S1 elise as well as N/A and S/C'd MX5's.
In my experience the elise handles better than any high or low powered mx5 ever will.
I loved my mx5 s/c (pushing about 165bhp), but I'd still rather take a standard elise on track as the handling is what makes it, and I have my fun in the corners rather than the straight bits.
However, get the mx5 to 200bhp and it is A LOT of fun. Herman's mx5 when it was about 200bhp I think was great fun on track.
I opted for the best of both worlds, elise handling and a K20 Honda engine to give the elise a bit more kick!
Must be fantastic. I have seen a durated Elise and it was unreal on the track
But ... It had to come on a trailer. No engine swaps are allowed over here. I think it is a pity not to be able to take little roads with your track car.
However, I read a 120 hp Elise car reach 145 hp quiet easily (induction, cat delete, headers and a few other things). A 25 hp gain on such a light car counts twice! And keeping the nice sound of the little K series.
But ... It had to come on a trailer. No engine swaps are allowed over here. I think it is a pity not to be able to take little roads with your track car.
However, I read a 120 hp Elise car reach 145 hp quiet easily (induction, cat delete, headers and a few other things). A 25 hp gain on such a light car counts twice! And keeping the nice sound of the little K series.
I've run a couple of Elises, including a Honda engined one and also a standard MX5. Whilst the Mazda is good fun it's in a different league compared to the Lotus which is far sharper, lighter on it's feet and "three dimensional" to drive.
Whilst an Honda engined car is great, you can get the K series to go very well indeed, 160 bhp is pretty straightforward and 180/185 achievable if you're prepared to start upgrading pistons and liners etc.
For me it's a no brainer - if you're prepared to spend Elise money then it's a much better track car.
Whilst an Honda engined car is great, you can get the K series to go very well indeed, 160 bhp is pretty straightforward and 180/185 achievable if you're prepared to start upgrading pistons and liners etc.
For me it's a no brainer - if you're prepared to spend Elise money then it's a much better track car.
K-series upgrades, knock yourself out > > > http://www.dvapower.co.uk/
The problem is when you start spending money with engine builds, when does it end...
The problem is when you start spending money with engine builds, when does it end...
Bossv8 said:
What are the mods to upgrade to 160 hp?
What does "it is 3 D to drive"? :-)
The Dave Andrews site should cover your K series options.What does "it is 3 D to drive"? :-)
By 3D I suppose I mean that, being a very well resolved mid-engine set-up, the chassis is both more demanding of you and allows more cornering options than a front engine RWD configuration.
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