TVR S2 350i - The story of a major engine upgrade ...
Discussion
The Project
Well after much consideration and soul searching and after receiving my well-earned bonus (no I am not in Banking!!) the conundrum was:
Do I sell the well-sorted and reliable “old girl” Late 89 TVR S2 350i and move on to another model /marque / challenge?
Buy another model of “rag top” TVR and if so Sp6 or bigger RV8?
Do a major power plant upgrade on the 350i? (Emerald or MS / Sprintex Blower
Bigger capacity RV8 engine for the 350i?
So the plan was to go and look at some other cars TVR and non-TVR and see what was available to get a feel for the performance and presence of these cars. BMW – Merc – Subaru – Honda and others were sampled in the budget bracket I allocated to myself. I have got to say that to be honest they did not do it for me so back to TVR!!
The Speed 6 option was considered and consideration given to the longevity, reliability and service costs. I made the decision not to move away from the V8 cars and their sound tracks, as I know a little about them, parts availability and longevity. I appreciate that the Sp6 engines have moved on in leaps and bounds in terms of mods and reliability but not for me at this stage!
Chim – Griff – V8S were all looked at and some tried, I specifically always lusted after a decat 4.2/3 BV Griff but to be honest I could not find one at the time and some of the other cars were not up to the mark. The V8S was a good example, but I did not get the right feeling with it so it was back to Wedges!
I wanted to have something that was a lot faster than my modified 350i, the obvious route would be to find a SEAC or a well-sorted 450SE. Again the search was fruitless for a SEAC (rarer than Professor Rare from the university of rare stuff) and a car that met my price and quality criteria.
So what was left ... a major project on the current car and engine, so do you go down the Emerald, Mega Squirt and others route on the current BV RV8 and if so what will be the expectations in “real BHp increases” Vs. Cost, or transplant a bigger capacity hot-wire / Serpentine engine into my car.
To cut a long period of consideration and story short, I made the decision to throw caution to the wind and go for a bigger engine, there is no compromise for more capacity for real increases in BHp in my book!
So that being said and decided, which engine to go for and where to source one?
Again much phoning around and picking of brains, I decided that a low mileage ex Griffith 500 SE / HC motor was the way to go as I had already completed a front and rear brake upgrade! I was keen to be able to stop the car!!
The plus of this route would be to still offer opportunities and flexibility for further upgrade routes if needed in the future and availability of parts and expertise, but the real issues was always going to be:
Would it fit / suit my current gearbox, clutch, and rear wheel drive set-up, electrical loom and cooling plumbing. I did not want to re-invent the wheel and have to do any complex fabrication.
Would the car chassis and infrastructure be able to cope with a leap in HP? Drivability issues, how much time, modification / fabrication would be needed not withstanding the cost envelope?
So, much discussion took place with various TVR emporiums and well known experts, I took the decision to go with Dan at Taylor TVR because he knew my car, was not too far from me to visit and discuss face to face as we went forward. More importantly he was ‘up for’ and interested in the project!
A leap of faith was needed to part with a large amount of money to buy a used engine. A good low mileage motor and not silly money would inevitably have to come from a breaker. To be frank you never know what you are getting until its in the car as they say! Much searching and watching of internet sites and auctions ensued, I finally spotted a likely candidate.... a Griff 500 SE engine from a car with a side and rear shunt which had covered 30k miles documented. The plus was that the vendor would provide a full “turn key” engine. This would come with all the ancillaries, Hot-wire engine loom, Clutch, starter, alternator, PAS pump, headers, ECU, AFM etc. A deep breath and a bank transfer later, followed by a lie down; the pallet dutifully arrived through the snow, followed by the ancillaries a week later. On the plus side a good friend and fellow 'Wedger' was in need of a engine for his project, so my old engine had found a home / use albeit an interim solution for him, as well and some money back into the project fund!
As it transpired it was a good thing that we had a bit of time to look at the engine on the stand while we were waiting for the ancillaries to arrive, as it was not without a few problems! After taking off the plenum and inlet manifold along with the sump it was clear that all was not well with the camshaft. Two of the lobes on number 2 and one on number 5 were showing signs of undue wear. Not good for a supposed low mileage engine unless it had been given a hard life. Eagle eyed Dan spotted the likely reason... the finishing on the block casting adjacent to the valley oil ways had not been finished properly and had lumps of metal sticking up. This apparently is a well-known issue on some engines and the causes for early failure of camshafts. Clearly the oil running down each side of the valley would have run round the metal and not directly onto the cam lobes. This was the case on each of the lobes showing wear.
|http://thumbsnap.com/OM9kHY5q[/url]
This was put right with some finishing but clearly the camshaft was toast so another was needed. A Kent 214 was found along with new billet timing gear and chain, oil pump and gaskets. Dan fitted it in a few hours on the engine stand. The correct pre-load was applied to the valve gear and it was re-assembled. Again this important issue is sometimes missed by either home mechanics or even at the factory.
The flywheel and clutch were examined closely, the clutch was almost new so all was fine there, however the release bearing was the plastic type and was looking a little tired so a new metal type and more durable one was found and fitted. It made sense to do the clutch fork strengthening modification at this point give the BHp increase to the car so a small plate was welded in. All of the transmission seals were examined and found to be fine so all good here.
So all was reassembled ready for the major surgery to come.
The original modified engine in the 350i came out with the gearbox without too many dramas although Dan had a bit of a struggle with the rear part of the exhaust system and had to take the ‘hot spanner’ and grinder to the clamps!
Once it was out it was a case of a good clean up and close examination of the engine bay, engine mounts (changed as a matter of course) and chassis as well as doing some confirmation measurement’s to make sure all would fit. It was also an opportunity to see what would be needed for the pipework on the PAS, remote oil filter fitting and finally the various steel pipes hoses and elbows needed for the cooling system. All of which would need adapting to suit the needs of the change from a flapper, V belt engine to the Serpentine motor. The remote oil filter kit would be needed from the flapper set-up due to the Wedge chassis cross member and adjacent PAS rack. This was fitted with new gaskets with new hydraulic hoses to reach the Griff PAS pump. After a lot of note taking and consideration it was clear that there should not be too many dramas, so it was all ahead for the transplant. One issue we had not considered was the mounting of the coolant swirl pot as it is mounted on a chassis cross rail on the Chims and Griffs, this does not apply to the Wedge so a small bracket was fabricated to suit. I also had a long discussion with Dan about whether I needed to make the change from the current single 12” fan and cowling to a twin fan set-up. Our view was it was probably not needed as the thermostat was a lower temperature one compared to the Wedge and as the radiator was recently re-cored and my fan manual over system should be up to the job. Time will tell on this once we have a few miles on the car.
|http://thumbsnap.com/KutMjIYE[/url]
So some anaesthetic was applied and surgery began, the new engine with gearbox went in without too much problem to be fair. The usual issues around getting it in with the normal manifolds and down pipes occurred however nothing new for Dan here! It is worth mentioning that clearly the usual Griff “back to front” manifolds and the ‘Y’ piece arrangement was a non starter for the Wedge, so the original headers were used although some grinding and porting work on the manifolds was needed to ensure good gas flow, and to match the size of the ports. The 350i does not have lambda's so these needed to be welded in on each side.
The big issue with this type of conversion was always going to be the electrics! On the late series 2 Wedges there is basically 2 looms, the passenger side is predominantly for ECU and engine services and the drivers side is for the car services like ignition, instruments and lights etc. We had to remove the flapper engine loom as this was not needed plus, the owner of my old engine needed it for his car. We had acquired the donor car loom as part of the engine deal however it was at this point that we noticed that the Griff dashboard multi plug had been chopped off so we had a 28-wire stump to fathom out!
|http://thumbsnap.com/xxiLMmQT[/url]
It became clear after much studying of various wiring schematics that we would only need some basic connections, 12v power supplies and 2 good ground connections in order to provide the ECU with power. When connected the ECU cycled into life and the ECU mate indicated that most of the critical codes appeared normal pre start up. Connections needed for the movement sensor and rev counter requirements would prove to be more challenging due the differences in instrumentation and services. Changes needed for the powering of the fuel pump and lambda’s would also be needed. Once Dan had got to grips with these changes it was full speed ahead. The oil pump was primed with Vaseline and all the lubricants were filled. I chose to stay with Valvoline engine oil as I found this to be perfect for the 350i . Likewise PAS and gear box oils were checked and topped up along with new coolant mix. The car was left to stand over night with its fluids filled to spot if there were any leaks! As it transpired it was a good job, the supplied coolant swirl pot had leaks around the mid point weld and was dripping. Dan had seen this issue before and rather than trying to repair / chase the leak another new one was procured, job done.
So with the exhaust now reconnected and the job list diminishing, there seemed to be no reason for any delay on attempting to start the engine! We knew that the engine cranked and there was good fuel pressure so fingers crossed she would fire. Fully charged battery and about 5-6 turns on the key ... there was life!
|http://thumbsnap.com/pajJuJNK[/url]
All things being equal the engine ran really smoothly from start up, oil pressure came up nicely and when the oil got to the pre-oiled top of the engine it ran smoothly and quietly as it should. Some small tweaks to the timing brought the engine into the correct ball park and it was alive!
As mentioned earlier we always expected the “devil to be in the detail”. Once the ECuMate was connected to the diagnostic port not surprisingly there were a few issues. Dan detected some slight ‘pinking’ on load so after further checks of timing he noticed some irregular readings from the ECU on engine temperature, a change of ECU cured this problem but a swop of management firmware chip will hopefully cure this issue rather than a full ECU replacement. The Wedge rev counter seemed to have a life of its own, so further diagnostics were needed, although early indications of incorrect voltage levels seems to be the cause and a swop out of coil will be done as a matter of course.
The other issue may well be the with the smoothness of the pulse voltages from the coil so a standard suppressor type capacitor will be added to the positive side of the coil to attempt to cure this issue. One further matter we had not considered was the Chim / Griff car motion sensor. The S2 Wedges do not have this feature. Dan will consider if we can “fool” the ECU into thinking it is in motion, or find another solution. The impact of this and any associated issues / risks will also be considered.
So with some final tweaks to the timing based on received telemetry from the ECU and other wiring issues we we at the finishing post.
So was it worth the expense, time to do this upgrade?
Definitely yes, the power range and drivability at this early stage are fantastic with a quantum leap in performance.
Would I recommend this to other Wedge owners looking for a real increase in performance and BHp?
Yes without hesitation, especially as many Wedge owners like me want to keep their well known and sorted cars with a real increase in performance. The drivability seems to be first class at this early stage without too many wheel spins but I am taking it easy until I adjust my driving style to suit the available power!
I would like to thank Dan Taylor and Martin (The Hatter) as well as the support from the Wedge and Griff forums for their help, advice and support. So now its time to enjoy the car, put some miles on the engine and a final fine tune on the Hub Dyno where i hope we can expect some serious BHp numbers!
Well after much consideration and soul searching and after receiving my well-earned bonus (no I am not in Banking!!) the conundrum was:
Do I sell the well-sorted and reliable “old girl” Late 89 TVR S2 350i and move on to another model /marque / challenge?
Buy another model of “rag top” TVR and if so Sp6 or bigger RV8?
Do a major power plant upgrade on the 350i? (Emerald or MS / Sprintex Blower
Bigger capacity RV8 engine for the 350i?
So the plan was to go and look at some other cars TVR and non-TVR and see what was available to get a feel for the performance and presence of these cars. BMW – Merc – Subaru – Honda and others were sampled in the budget bracket I allocated to myself. I have got to say that to be honest they did not do it for me so back to TVR!!
The Speed 6 option was considered and consideration given to the longevity, reliability and service costs. I made the decision not to move away from the V8 cars and their sound tracks, as I know a little about them, parts availability and longevity. I appreciate that the Sp6 engines have moved on in leaps and bounds in terms of mods and reliability but not for me at this stage!
Chim – Griff – V8S were all looked at and some tried, I specifically always lusted after a decat 4.2/3 BV Griff but to be honest I could not find one at the time and some of the other cars were not up to the mark. The V8S was a good example, but I did not get the right feeling with it so it was back to Wedges!
I wanted to have something that was a lot faster than my modified 350i, the obvious route would be to find a SEAC or a well-sorted 450SE. Again the search was fruitless for a SEAC (rarer than Professor Rare from the university of rare stuff) and a car that met my price and quality criteria.
So what was left ... a major project on the current car and engine, so do you go down the Emerald, Mega Squirt and others route on the current BV RV8 and if so what will be the expectations in “real BHp increases” Vs. Cost, or transplant a bigger capacity hot-wire / Serpentine engine into my car.
To cut a long period of consideration and story short, I made the decision to throw caution to the wind and go for a bigger engine, there is no compromise for more capacity for real increases in BHp in my book!
So that being said and decided, which engine to go for and where to source one?
Again much phoning around and picking of brains, I decided that a low mileage ex Griffith 500 SE / HC motor was the way to go as I had already completed a front and rear brake upgrade! I was keen to be able to stop the car!!
The plus of this route would be to still offer opportunities and flexibility for further upgrade routes if needed in the future and availability of parts and expertise, but the real issues was always going to be:
Would it fit / suit my current gearbox, clutch, and rear wheel drive set-up, electrical loom and cooling plumbing. I did not want to re-invent the wheel and have to do any complex fabrication.
Would the car chassis and infrastructure be able to cope with a leap in HP? Drivability issues, how much time, modification / fabrication would be needed not withstanding the cost envelope?
So, much discussion took place with various TVR emporiums and well known experts, I took the decision to go with Dan at Taylor TVR because he knew my car, was not too far from me to visit and discuss face to face as we went forward. More importantly he was ‘up for’ and interested in the project!
A leap of faith was needed to part with a large amount of money to buy a used engine. A good low mileage motor and not silly money would inevitably have to come from a breaker. To be frank you never know what you are getting until its in the car as they say! Much searching and watching of internet sites and auctions ensued, I finally spotted a likely candidate.... a Griff 500 SE engine from a car with a side and rear shunt which had covered 30k miles documented. The plus was that the vendor would provide a full “turn key” engine. This would come with all the ancillaries, Hot-wire engine loom, Clutch, starter, alternator, PAS pump, headers, ECU, AFM etc. A deep breath and a bank transfer later, followed by a lie down; the pallet dutifully arrived through the snow, followed by the ancillaries a week later. On the plus side a good friend and fellow 'Wedger' was in need of a engine for his project, so my old engine had found a home / use albeit an interim solution for him, as well and some money back into the project fund!
As it transpired it was a good thing that we had a bit of time to look at the engine on the stand while we were waiting for the ancillaries to arrive, as it was not without a few problems! After taking off the plenum and inlet manifold along with the sump it was clear that all was not well with the camshaft. Two of the lobes on number 2 and one on number 5 were showing signs of undue wear. Not good for a supposed low mileage engine unless it had been given a hard life. Eagle eyed Dan spotted the likely reason... the finishing on the block casting adjacent to the valley oil ways had not been finished properly and had lumps of metal sticking up. This apparently is a well-known issue on some engines and the causes for early failure of camshafts. Clearly the oil running down each side of the valley would have run round the metal and not directly onto the cam lobes. This was the case on each of the lobes showing wear.
|http://thumbsnap.com/OM9kHY5q[/url]This was put right with some finishing but clearly the camshaft was toast so another was needed. A Kent 214 was found along with new billet timing gear and chain, oil pump and gaskets. Dan fitted it in a few hours on the engine stand. The correct pre-load was applied to the valve gear and it was re-assembled. Again this important issue is sometimes missed by either home mechanics or even at the factory.
The flywheel and clutch were examined closely, the clutch was almost new so all was fine there, however the release bearing was the plastic type and was looking a little tired so a new metal type and more durable one was found and fitted. It made sense to do the clutch fork strengthening modification at this point give the BHp increase to the car so a small plate was welded in. All of the transmission seals were examined and found to be fine so all good here.
So all was reassembled ready for the major surgery to come.
The original modified engine in the 350i came out with the gearbox without too many dramas although Dan had a bit of a struggle with the rear part of the exhaust system and had to take the ‘hot spanner’ and grinder to the clamps!
Once it was out it was a case of a good clean up and close examination of the engine bay, engine mounts (changed as a matter of course) and chassis as well as doing some confirmation measurement’s to make sure all would fit. It was also an opportunity to see what would be needed for the pipework on the PAS, remote oil filter fitting and finally the various steel pipes hoses and elbows needed for the cooling system. All of which would need adapting to suit the needs of the change from a flapper, V belt engine to the Serpentine motor. The remote oil filter kit would be needed from the flapper set-up due to the Wedge chassis cross member and adjacent PAS rack. This was fitted with new gaskets with new hydraulic hoses to reach the Griff PAS pump. After a lot of note taking and consideration it was clear that there should not be too many dramas, so it was all ahead for the transplant. One issue we had not considered was the mounting of the coolant swirl pot as it is mounted on a chassis cross rail on the Chims and Griffs, this does not apply to the Wedge so a small bracket was fabricated to suit. I also had a long discussion with Dan about whether I needed to make the change from the current single 12” fan and cowling to a twin fan set-up. Our view was it was probably not needed as the thermostat was a lower temperature one compared to the Wedge and as the radiator was recently re-cored and my fan manual over system should be up to the job. Time will tell on this once we have a few miles on the car.
|http://thumbsnap.com/KutMjIYE[/url]So some anaesthetic was applied and surgery began, the new engine with gearbox went in without too much problem to be fair. The usual issues around getting it in with the normal manifolds and down pipes occurred however nothing new for Dan here! It is worth mentioning that clearly the usual Griff “back to front” manifolds and the ‘Y’ piece arrangement was a non starter for the Wedge, so the original headers were used although some grinding and porting work on the manifolds was needed to ensure good gas flow, and to match the size of the ports. The 350i does not have lambda's so these needed to be welded in on each side.
The big issue with this type of conversion was always going to be the electrics! On the late series 2 Wedges there is basically 2 looms, the passenger side is predominantly for ECU and engine services and the drivers side is for the car services like ignition, instruments and lights etc. We had to remove the flapper engine loom as this was not needed plus, the owner of my old engine needed it for his car. We had acquired the donor car loom as part of the engine deal however it was at this point that we noticed that the Griff dashboard multi plug had been chopped off so we had a 28-wire stump to fathom out!
|http://thumbsnap.com/xxiLMmQT[/url]It became clear after much studying of various wiring schematics that we would only need some basic connections, 12v power supplies and 2 good ground connections in order to provide the ECU with power. When connected the ECU cycled into life and the ECU mate indicated that most of the critical codes appeared normal pre start up. Connections needed for the movement sensor and rev counter requirements would prove to be more challenging due the differences in instrumentation and services. Changes needed for the powering of the fuel pump and lambda’s would also be needed. Once Dan had got to grips with these changes it was full speed ahead. The oil pump was primed with Vaseline and all the lubricants were filled. I chose to stay with Valvoline engine oil as I found this to be perfect for the 350i . Likewise PAS and gear box oils were checked and topped up along with new coolant mix. The car was left to stand over night with its fluids filled to spot if there were any leaks! As it transpired it was a good job, the supplied coolant swirl pot had leaks around the mid point weld and was dripping. Dan had seen this issue before and rather than trying to repair / chase the leak another new one was procured, job done.
So with the exhaust now reconnected and the job list diminishing, there seemed to be no reason for any delay on attempting to start the engine! We knew that the engine cranked and there was good fuel pressure so fingers crossed she would fire. Fully charged battery and about 5-6 turns on the key ... there was life!
|http://thumbsnap.com/pajJuJNK[/url]All things being equal the engine ran really smoothly from start up, oil pressure came up nicely and when the oil got to the pre-oiled top of the engine it ran smoothly and quietly as it should. Some small tweaks to the timing brought the engine into the correct ball park and it was alive!
As mentioned earlier we always expected the “devil to be in the detail”. Once the ECuMate was connected to the diagnostic port not surprisingly there were a few issues. Dan detected some slight ‘pinking’ on load so after further checks of timing he noticed some irregular readings from the ECU on engine temperature, a change of ECU cured this problem but a swop of management firmware chip will hopefully cure this issue rather than a full ECU replacement. The Wedge rev counter seemed to have a life of its own, so further diagnostics were needed, although early indications of incorrect voltage levels seems to be the cause and a swop out of coil will be done as a matter of course.
The other issue may well be the with the smoothness of the pulse voltages from the coil so a standard suppressor type capacitor will be added to the positive side of the coil to attempt to cure this issue. One further matter we had not considered was the Chim / Griff car motion sensor. The S2 Wedges do not have this feature. Dan will consider if we can “fool” the ECU into thinking it is in motion, or find another solution. The impact of this and any associated issues / risks will also be considered.
So with some final tweaks to the timing based on received telemetry from the ECU and other wiring issues we we at the finishing post.
So was it worth the expense, time to do this upgrade?
Definitely yes, the power range and drivability at this early stage are fantastic with a quantum leap in performance.
Would I recommend this to other Wedge owners looking for a real increase in performance and BHp?
Yes without hesitation, especially as many Wedge owners like me want to keep their well known and sorted cars with a real increase in performance. The drivability seems to be first class at this early stage without too many wheel spins but I am taking it easy until I adjust my driving style to suit the available power!
I would like to thank Dan Taylor and Martin (The Hatter) as well as the support from the Wedge and Griff forums for their help, advice and support. So now its time to enjoy the car, put some miles on the engine and a final fine tune on the Hub Dyno where i hope we can expect some serious BHp numbers!
Wow - that looks fantastic !
Another BBW (I love 'em)!
Would love to hear it (youtube please?) - I love the sound of my Griff 500 and 350i but they are distinctly different - as both have no CATs I wonder how much is down to engine/cam and how much to the exhaust shape/layout ??
Well done, Paul.
Another BBW (I love 'em)!
Would love to hear it (youtube please?) - I love the sound of my Griff 500 and 350i but they are distinctly different - as both have no CATs I wonder how much is down to engine/cam and how much to the exhaust shape/layout ??
Well done, Paul.
. looks great. Bet it feels tremendously strong with that motor. 
Guys
I have tried to upload a short piece of video of the first time the car moved, apolagies for the camaera work as i am not Cecil B DeMille!
Turn up the volume!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG0wKU6mcUE
Chris
I have tried to upload a short piece of video of the first time the car moved, apolagies for the camaera work as i am not Cecil B DeMille!
Turn up the volume!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG0wKU6mcUE
Chris
Edited by Jack Valiant on Wednesday 13th March 10:47
...next one, the high rev snarl. Managed to convert the file so this is a short video just after the first start up of the engine - enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5roeHSkzI-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5roeHSkzI-E
Well its time to change the transfers on the car to reflect the new engine size so what is the best way to get the old 350i transfers off and put the new 500i one on?
I have been told that the best way is to use a hair dryer and gently scrape it off, but I do not want to mark the paint!
Advice needed please!
I have been told that the best way is to use a hair dryer and gently scrape it off, but I do not want to mark the paint!
Advice needed please!
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