The cheap economical luxobarge challenge. £600 Rover 620iSD
Discussion
As part of my ongoing effort to run a decent, comfy car for pennies I went back to hunting Autotrader and eBay for a hidden bargain.
I've had a couple of 75s, a ZT, several 400s, a few 600s, a 45 and a ZS... so you could say I have a bit of a British car problem. I prefer to look at it as a hobby, but there you go...
Basically, it's a fairly well specced (for a 600!) 620iSD. Half leather Recaro seats, tractor engine (good old L series), air con (still holding a little pressure but needs a regas) and front electric windows.
MOT until September and tax until end of March. 100k exactly on the clock.
Paid £600, which is quite high (in realistic terms) for a 600, however I bought on condition and felt it was worth the extra over the scabby £400 examples available.
The question you will all ask is, why buy a rebadged Honda from the 90s? Simple really, the 600 is a car that seems to be built, well... properly.
Instead of plastic clutch hydraulics used on most of the other models, the 600 uses a double-seal metal piston arrangement on the master, and a single-seal metal piston on the slave. Repair kits are available for both, and they rarely give issue.
This philosophy extends to most of the car, with various parts allowing cheap repair or rebuild rather than replacement.
The final ticks were the 50+MPG from the frugal diesel, excellent sound deadening and ride quality, great sound system and comfortable half-leather Recaro seats as standard.
Behold:
As you can see, the bodywork needs a little attention.
A quick list of what I hope is to be done by a couple of months:
- Front calipers cleaned and rebuilt: DONE
- Clutch fluid replaced and proper bleed performed: DONE
- Clutch release arm properly cleaned and greased: DONE
- Oil top up if needed: DONE
- Coolant change and flush: DONE
- Fit Honda Accord 3-way interior light: DONE
- Change orange side repeaters for clear: DONE
- Dent pulled out of front wing: DONE
- Remnants of corner guards on the front and back bumpers removed: DONE
- All windows freed up and greased (2x electric 2x manual): DONE
- Dodgy driver's door lock replaced: DONE
- Rear arches cleaned up and repainted
- Sill damage touched up
- Brake fluid replaced and proper bleed performed
- Rear calipers cleaned and rebuilt
- All brake pads freed up and slider pins cleaned and greased
First of all, the front brakes appeared to be binding... so I gave them a budget DIY rebuild. Piston out, seals out, bore cleaned up, piston cleaned up, back together.
Old piston:
Cleaned up piston:
Next, time to clean up that bodywork.
First of all, those awful corner rubbing strips! Gone
Next, dent pulled out:
Then, time to dive under the bonnet to get that clutch fluid changed (looked pretty manky!)
Fairly clean bay:
Slave cylinder dug out and unbolted, ready for bleeding (note the metal cylinder):
Next it's going to get a damn good interior clean and I'll finish sorting out the brakes.
Bye for now...
I've had a couple of 75s, a ZT, several 400s, a few 600s, a 45 and a ZS... so you could say I have a bit of a British car problem. I prefer to look at it as a hobby, but there you go...
Basically, it's a fairly well specced (for a 600!) 620iSD. Half leather Recaro seats, tractor engine (good old L series), air con (still holding a little pressure but needs a regas) and front electric windows.
MOT until September and tax until end of March. 100k exactly on the clock.
Paid £600, which is quite high (in realistic terms) for a 600, however I bought on condition and felt it was worth the extra over the scabby £400 examples available.
The question you will all ask is, why buy a rebadged Honda from the 90s? Simple really, the 600 is a car that seems to be built, well... properly.
Instead of plastic clutch hydraulics used on most of the other models, the 600 uses a double-seal metal piston arrangement on the master, and a single-seal metal piston on the slave. Repair kits are available for both, and they rarely give issue.
This philosophy extends to most of the car, with various parts allowing cheap repair or rebuild rather than replacement.
The final ticks were the 50+MPG from the frugal diesel, excellent sound deadening and ride quality, great sound system and comfortable half-leather Recaro seats as standard.
Behold:
As you can see, the bodywork needs a little attention.
A quick list of what I hope is to be done by a couple of months:
- Front calipers cleaned and rebuilt: DONE
- Clutch fluid replaced and proper bleed performed: DONE
- Clutch release arm properly cleaned and greased: DONE
- Oil top up if needed: DONE
- Coolant change and flush: DONE
- Fit Honda Accord 3-way interior light: DONE
- Change orange side repeaters for clear: DONE
- Dent pulled out of front wing: DONE
- Remnants of corner guards on the front and back bumpers removed: DONE
- All windows freed up and greased (2x electric 2x manual): DONE
- Dodgy driver's door lock replaced: DONE
- Rear arches cleaned up and repainted
- Sill damage touched up
- Brake fluid replaced and proper bleed performed
- Rear calipers cleaned and rebuilt
- All brake pads freed up and slider pins cleaned and greased
First of all, the front brakes appeared to be binding... so I gave them a budget DIY rebuild. Piston out, seals out, bore cleaned up, piston cleaned up, back together.
Old piston:
Cleaned up piston:
Next, time to clean up that bodywork.
First of all, those awful corner rubbing strips! Gone
Next, dent pulled out:
Then, time to dive under the bonnet to get that clutch fluid changed (looked pretty manky!)
Fairly clean bay:
Slave cylinder dug out and unbolted, ready for bleeding (note the metal cylinder):
Next it's going to get a damn good interior clean and I'll finish sorting out the brakes.
Bye for now...
Cheers guys - I always felt the 600 was rather unappreciated.
You'll all be pleased to know I've given it another good going over, and my mind has given it the 'thumbs up' for a proper project.
I'm not really one for pristine bodywork, I'm just going to be focusing on the oily bits.
Today I found and bookmarked:
- Lots of bushes I noticed could do with refreshing
- 2 rear shocks (one leaking causing interesting rear handling)
- Front and rear discs and pads
- Components to make a device to up the fuelling, for a bit more BHP
I'm hopefully going to leave it at around 150BHP, however as this has the 'older' Garrett GT1549 and VP37 fuel pump it's going to be a little harder getting there - with my ZS I remapped, decatted and added higher flow injectors... taking it from 99bhp to over 160. This will be much harder.
First of all, I always like to make sure any extra fuel can actually be burnt. Tuning a diesel is like tuning a bonfire - just keep adding fuel while making sure you have enough air to burn it all.
Time for a larger turbo then. It's getting the GT1549A from my ZS - the bigger compressor side shifts more air, yet the small turbine keeps the torque low and makes sure it's still boost-ready with little notice. This will be running a clean 19psi on the standard intercooler (for now).
Second, fuel. The limit I'll have is the VP37 pump, when running a little beyond their reach they sometimes suffer cavitation causing bad running, pump damage and loss of power. To fix this I'll be running an inline auxiliary lift pump from a Rover 75, mounted under the bonnet.
I'll be ramping the injector pump output up via a variable resistor adjusting the fuel feed signal, also known as the EVRY mod.
With this extra air and fuel, plus a decat, I should be nearing 150BHP.
I'm currently helping out with a custom 'Frankenpump', a hybrid of the high-pressure Freelander VP37 and a normal VP37 as fitted to this car. This will be using the larger 11mm camplate from the Freelander pump and the SDI pump head, in theory allowing a much higher flow rate.
If that's successful (he can blow his 600 diesel up first...
) I'll work on something similar, but for now I'll use the tandem pump idea to keep the juice flowing enough to avoid cavitation.
You'll all be pleased to know I've given it another good going over, and my mind has given it the 'thumbs up' for a proper project.
I'm not really one for pristine bodywork, I'm just going to be focusing on the oily bits.
Today I found and bookmarked:
- Lots of bushes I noticed could do with refreshing
- 2 rear shocks (one leaking causing interesting rear handling)
- Front and rear discs and pads
- Components to make a device to up the fuelling, for a bit more BHP
I'm hopefully going to leave it at around 150BHP, however as this has the 'older' Garrett GT1549 and VP37 fuel pump it's going to be a little harder getting there - with my ZS I remapped, decatted and added higher flow injectors... taking it from 99bhp to over 160. This will be much harder.
First of all, I always like to make sure any extra fuel can actually be burnt. Tuning a diesel is like tuning a bonfire - just keep adding fuel while making sure you have enough air to burn it all.
Time for a larger turbo then. It's getting the GT1549A from my ZS - the bigger compressor side shifts more air, yet the small turbine keeps the torque low and makes sure it's still boost-ready with little notice. This will be running a clean 19psi on the standard intercooler (for now).
Second, fuel. The limit I'll have is the VP37 pump, when running a little beyond their reach they sometimes suffer cavitation causing bad running, pump damage and loss of power. To fix this I'll be running an inline auxiliary lift pump from a Rover 75, mounted under the bonnet.
I'll be ramping the injector pump output up via a variable resistor adjusting the fuel feed signal, also known as the EVRY mod.
With this extra air and fuel, plus a decat, I should be nearing 150BHP.
I'm currently helping out with a custom 'Frankenpump', a hybrid of the high-pressure Freelander VP37 and a normal VP37 as fitted to this car. This will be using the larger 11mm camplate from the Freelander pump and the SDI pump head, in theory allowing a much higher flow rate.
If that's successful (he can blow his 600 diesel up first...
) I'll work on something similar, but for now I'll use the tandem pump idea to keep the juice flowing enough to avoid cavitation.mattyprice4004 said:
dome said:
Brilliant engines these, they run really well on veg oil too. Looks a much nicer spec than most too, good choice.
Cheers, it's a mid-spec model so I'm lucky it has the 'nicer' interior.Veg oil is the plan, 10 litres for £10 at Tesco at the moment
Today was spent finding out where my odd rear handling was coming from - hitting a pothole or even grid with the rear passenger wheel would make the whole rear end kick out to the left.
Turns out the rear shock was covered in oil - £5 later and a spring/shock from the scrap yard is on that side. Only 80k on the replacement, too!
I know they should be done in pairs... but the mounting bolt sheared on the passenger side one in the scrappy, so we carefully undid the bolt on the driver's side and rotated the top mount.
Job well done, and now driving beautifully. Averaging around 47MPG on a 50/50 diesel/veggie oil mix, with 100kmh (honest guv..) 1AM motorway jaunts and a bit of town pottering.
It'll quite happily sit at illegal speeds with zero noise and fuss, although of course such activities are only done in the dead of night and for test purposes only...
Turns out the rear shock was covered in oil - £5 later and a spring/shock from the scrap yard is on that side. Only 80k on the replacement, too!
I know they should be done in pairs... but the mounting bolt sheared on the passenger side one in the scrappy, so we carefully undid the bolt on the driver's side and rotated the top mount.
Job well done, and now driving beautifully. Averaging around 47MPG on a 50/50 diesel/veggie oil mix, with 100kmh (honest guv..) 1AM motorway jaunts and a bit of town pottering.
It'll quite happily sit at illegal speeds with zero noise and fuss, although of course such activities are only done in the dead of night and for test purposes only...
Wonderful, Rovers are such a ridiculous bargain - long may that remain! Just look how much car you are getting for the money here, it really is quite incredible. Those seats are fantastic! And Diesel too!
This looks like a hidden gem - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-ROVER-618I-S-SILVER...
Only £430, 81k miles and MOT until end of year with just one owner! Someone seriously needs to get this car! If I was in the market for a bit of bargain motoring I would be on my way there now! Sadly, I have the mixed blessing of a company car (ADVANTAGE:cheap and reliable motoring DISADVANTAGE: Missus wont let me buy cheap Rovers and Alfas!)
I look with interest how this thread develops. Bookmarked!
ETA: Oh my God, we are in a golden age of Rover bargains! Look at this 820, it's only done 25k miles! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-820-future-classic...
It will probably go for about £1200 and it looks immac!
This looks like a hidden gem - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-ROVER-618I-S-SILVER...
Only £430, 81k miles and MOT until end of year with just one owner! Someone seriously needs to get this car! If I was in the market for a bit of bargain motoring I would be on my way there now! Sadly, I have the mixed blessing of a company car (ADVANTAGE:cheap and reliable motoring DISADVANTAGE: Missus wont let me buy cheap Rovers and Alfas!)
I look with interest how this thread develops. Bookmarked!
ETA: Oh my God, we are in a golden age of Rover bargains! Look at this 820, it's only done 25k miles! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-820-future-classic...
It will probably go for about £1200 and it looks immac!
Edited by robsa on Sunday 17th March 16:53
Re that 820:
I'd venture to suggest that the "should have gone to Specsavers" line was written for the person who kept a straight face while typing: "A future classic with a touch of Sirocco or Citroen CX styling"!
I had one exactly like this as a hire car once for 3 hours or so - I would have returned it sooner, but it took them that long to find a replacement. It was a hateful piece of rubbish new, and god knows how much worse it will be with some age and mileage.
I'd venture to suggest that the "should have gone to Specsavers" line was written for the person who kept a straight face while typing: "A future classic with a touch of Sirocco or Citroen CX styling"!
I had one exactly like this as a hire car once for 3 hours or so - I would have returned it sooner, but it took them that long to find a replacement. It was a hateful piece of rubbish new, and god knows how much worse it will be with some age and mileage.
Collected this with a mate on Thursday..
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Interior is good, but the engine bay and exterior look like 127k miles really!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Interior is good, but the engine bay and exterior look like 127k miles really!
robsa said:
ETA: Oh my God, we are in a golden age of Rover bargains! Look at this 820, it's only done 25k miles! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-820-future-classic...
Even with 25k, spending a grand on an 820e would be the mark of a serious, erm, 'enthusiast'. An 827 in that nick would be a different matter.600 looks good OP, can't believe the power gains you can achieve, are they reliable at that kind of output?
Nothing of interest to report back with - it's been doing nearly 100 miles a day, 7 days a week and barely costing a penny to run. To say I'm pleased is an understatement!
Further to my previous list, I've been around and under the car with cans of grease / silicon lube and have eliminated most of the bushes I thought needed replacement - most of them are actually still OK.
The only issues I've not fixed so far:
- Gearstick rattles at idle, this is due to a rubber bush holding the end of the selector arm being worn. Costs £10 from Honda.
- CV joints a little clicky, going to repack and hope that quitens them down. If not, £18.99 a side. Fixed - needed more grease.
Not dabbled with the power adjustments just yet.
Further to my previous list, I've been around and under the car with cans of grease / silicon lube and have eliminated most of the bushes I thought needed replacement - most of them are actually still OK.
The only issues I've not fixed so far:
- Gearstick rattles at idle, this is due to a rubber bush holding the end of the selector arm being worn. Costs £10 from Honda.
- CV joints a little clicky, going to repack and hope that quitens them down. If not, £18.99 a side. Fixed - needed more grease.
Not dabbled with the power adjustments just yet.
Edited by mattyprice4004 on Friday 26th April 19:56
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