How to approach - land opportunity

[s2t]

There probably isn't a simple solution to this but please read on
We have bought from a farmer several acres of land subject to getting full planning permission on part of it to build a house, without pre-empting I am quite sure this will now come through having overcome previous concerns.
The rest of the field the farmer is selling is essentially for agricultural use. With my ever increasing knowledge of the planning process I am quite sure another 2 plots could be created for sale as building plots - the farmer is not aware of this in fact he just wants to get shot of everything for little effort.
The simplest solution would be for me to buy the rest of the field and gamble that I could get the planning (my architect suggests better than 50% chance) however this means gambling with c£80k but say a possible return of £200k+
I have decided I do not wish to take this gamble
So what are the possible solutions?
1. Have a chat with the farmer and say I will do all the work for outline planning and pay the costs and split the sale price 50/50 - risk is he thinks never thought of that I will do that myself
2. Technically it is possible to get outline planning on land you don't own so I apply and if it comes through then buy the land - risk is again or even worse the farmer thinks thanks very much for doing all the work gaining outline planning my land now has increased in value by 40times

So any other ideas?

[randlemarcus]

Buying the field at normal agricultural rates is hardly gambling, as you could always sell it on again afterwards.

JFDI

[Irrotational]

How annoyed will the farmer be if you just buy the land and do that?

He could easily install a load of pigs in the remainder of the field and leave you with very cheap houses to sell?

[s2t]

Irrotational said:

How annoyed will the farmer be if you just buy the land and do that?

He could easily install a load of pigs in the remainder of the field and leave you with very cheap houses to sell?

Well not really cos I would buy the whole field, and he is no longer farming, anyway my idea is not to rip the farmer off as perhaps you are suggesting as I mentioned one of the options is to approach him and share the potential profit, but somehow I need to safeguard my idea ie he has the land I have the idea

[randlemarcus]

Ah, but who has the money? Idea & no money = sell for a profit to someone who has the money. Land and no money = same thing.

You could offer him agri value plus a percentage of any future profit, so you take the financial risk if nothing happens, but you seem less than keen. It's not a hugely innovative idea, but if he knows why you are buying part of a field, and hasn't put a call in to a local builder to find out the odds, he's probably more risk averse than you are

[s2t]

randlemarcus said:

Ah, but who has the money? Idea & no money = sell for a profit to someone who has the money. Land and no money = same thing.

You could offer him agri value plus a percentage of any future profit, so you take the financial risk if nothing happens, but you seem less than keen. It's not a hugely innovative idea, but if he knows why you are buying part of a field, and hasn't put a call in to a local builder to find out the odds, he's probably more risk averse than you are

No I would buy the whole field and then just parcel 2 building plots and keep the rest of the field for our agri use

[randlemarcus]

s2t said:

No I would buy the whole field and then just parcel 2 building plots and keep the rest of the field for our agri use

Sorry, crossed wires. You are currently buying a part of the field, and are optimistic about PP. Presumably, he knows this (and thus knows your idea!). He obviously can't be bothered picking up the phone and dialling Barrat, so isn't likely to do so if you approach him with the idea of buying the rest. Personally, I'd try and get it without uplift clauses in the contract, and settle up afterwards like gentlemen, but I can see he might be less than keen.

[s2t]

randlemarcus said:

Sorry, crossed wires. You are currently buying a part of the field, and are optimistic about PP. Presumably, he knows this (and thus knows your idea!). He obviously can't be bothered picking up the phone and dialling Barrat, so isn't likely to do so if you approach him with the idea of buying the rest. Personally, I'd try and get it without uplift clauses in the contract, and settle up afterwards like gentlemen, but I can see he might be less than keen.

Sorry my fault for perhaps not being clear.
I am currently purchasing part of the field subject to gaining planning permission, this has been agreed between me and the farmer, this deal is virtually put to bed and is market rate for such a plot so considerably more than its agricultural value
As a completely separate idea I was then considering recently that for the remaining part of the field of say c15 acres I reckon there is a possibility of getting outline planning permission for 2 small plots of say .7 acre each, my rationale for saying this I have digested the local councils planning rules for development in the country and can see these 2 plots would comply with their rather stringent policies. My architect tends to agree with my rationale.
The farmer currently has the field (minus my bit) up for sale for agricultural purposes, he has not considered trying to sell any further parts for housing.

I think I may do more research to establish the potential demand level if sold on as agri land which must be my backstop

[worsy]

2 small plots of say .7 acre each

Wow, just wow. How big would a large plot be?

[MOTORVATOR]

You take out an option agreement with the farmer. Basically pay him a certain amount of money and he is tied to allow you a period to attain planning whereupon you purchase for a previously agreed sum.

Talk to any land conveyancer and they will fill you in.

[Zeemax_Mini]

As above, sounds like an option agreement would do what you want. You basically agree a price that you'll pay IF you get planning, then both sign an agreement which says that in return for your consideration (could be £1) the farmer gives you the right to buy the land at that agreed price, for an agreed period of time (say 12 months, plenty of time for you to get planning). If you do get planning you exercise the option agreement and buy the land at the agreed price, knowing its now worth more than that. If you don't get planning you just don't exercise the option (and lose your initial consideration).

Dom

[AndrewO]

I would be thinking of buying the field to protect your surroundings. Your in control then of what happens in the field (type of farming) and stops any development beside you. If something did get developed 9/10 something would p1ss you off.

[paulwirral]

aforementioned option is the only way forward unless your a gambler , good luck on whatever way you decide

[jas xjr]

buy the land and sit on it for a while .

[RizzoTheRat]

We have a deal with someone on a field my family owns that they pay us a retainer every couple of years, and if they can get the planning permission sorted out on it they can buy it from us at a reduced rate. Could be worth looking at setting up a similar deal with him, you do the leg work and if it goes through you pay him significantly more than agricultural prices, but low enough that it's worth you doing the work.