981 damaged before collection. What would you do?
Discussion
Hi All,
I've been a bit quiet on here since I picked up my brand new 981 at the end of last year:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Anyway, after a couple of washes I noticed lots of scratches in the paintwork on the drivers door above the door handle. Total area about 8cm by 8cm. Looking closer I could see a paint run and also the door had a rough feeling in the middle of it. On the edge of the door the paint also felt rough as though it had no clear coat. To me it looked like the car had had a really bad smart repair.
If I'd noticed on collection then I wouldn't have signed for the car.
Anyway, Porsche dealership have admitted that my car has had a repair at some point (before it reached them) and it even turned up needing a new plastic trim between the window and door frame because it was damaged. It went into the Porsche bodyshop last week for the whole door to be repainted. On picking it up I noticed a couple of things, but the main issue is now there seems to be a large area of overspray on the door sill. Bodyshop are claiming that's from the original first repair, but I'm not too sure. It also came back with a chip to the paint inside the door shut, and for some reason a smell of WD40 and a patch of oil under the bottom of the door trim.
They've offered to have it back again, but I'm reluctant to let them near it again. I've got a brand new 981 that's only 4 months old (1100 miles) and has had the drivers door painted twice already and still needs to go back for further work.
I'd welcome any thoughts!
I've been a bit quiet on here since I picked up my brand new 981 at the end of last year:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Anyway, after a couple of washes I noticed lots of scratches in the paintwork on the drivers door above the door handle. Total area about 8cm by 8cm. Looking closer I could see a paint run and also the door had a rough feeling in the middle of it. On the edge of the door the paint also felt rough as though it had no clear coat. To me it looked like the car had had a really bad smart repair.
If I'd noticed on collection then I wouldn't have signed for the car.
Anyway, Porsche dealership have admitted that my car has had a repair at some point (before it reached them) and it even turned up needing a new plastic trim between the window and door frame because it was damaged. It went into the Porsche bodyshop last week for the whole door to be repainted. On picking it up I noticed a couple of things, but the main issue is now there seems to be a large area of overspray on the door sill. Bodyshop are claiming that's from the original first repair, but I'm not too sure. It also came back with a chip to the paint inside the door shut, and for some reason a smell of WD40 and a patch of oil under the bottom of the door trim.
They've offered to have it back again, but I'm reluctant to let them near it again. I've got a brand new 981 that's only 4 months old (1100 miles) and has had the drivers door painted twice already and still needs to go back for further work.
I'd welcome any thoughts!
You have to let them have another go. The case for taking it somewhere else and having them pay would be slim unless you're an exceptionally good customer.
Just make it clear, and have their agreement (written preferably) that this time you're getting an as-new Porsche back with no overspray or moody paintwork or then they'll be paying for it to go elsewhere and be done.
Signed inspection before and after aswell.
Just make it clear, and have their agreement (written preferably) that this time you're getting an as-new Porsche back with no overspray or moody paintwork or then they'll be paying for it to go elsewhere and be done.
Signed inspection before and after aswell.
Muzzer79 said:
You have to let them have another go. The case for taking it somewhere else and having them pay would be slim unless you're an exceptionally good customer.
Just make it clear, and have their agreement (written preferably) that this time you're getting an as-new Porsche back with no overspray or moody paintwork or then they'll be paying for it to go elsewhere and be done.
Signed inspection before and after aswell.
And if they don't get the car back to you 100% perfect then just reject the car. They'll say you can't do that, but kick-up a stink and you will get your money back.Just make it clear, and have their agreement (written preferably) that this time you're getting an as-new Porsche back with no overspray or moody paintwork or then they'll be paying for it to go elsewhere and be done.
Signed inspection before and after aswell.
Removing any overspray from the first repair is obviously their responsibilty so there should be no argument about that. I would give them the chance to return the car to you, second time round, in 100% the condition it should be in and expect and accept some goodwill as gesture from the dealer. Perhaps a complimentary service?
I would be really disappointed if that had happened to me. You thought you were buying a brand new car which clearly it wasn't. When you collected the car the dealer should have pointed out that the car had suffered some damage and was painted. I would then have expected them to knock a little off the price to reflect this.
Not sure of the legal grounds but surely sales or goods comes into play in that the car was misrepsented to you?
Optimal soloution would be a replacement. Failing that I would only be happy if I recevied something off the purchase price but to be fair a new replacement is the honourable solution.
Quite frankly this should not happen from any dealer let alone a Porsche dealership. Are they deliberately trying to feck us all off so we go elsewhere?
Not sure of the legal grounds but surely sales or goods comes into play in that the car was misrepsented to you?
Optimal soloution would be a replacement. Failing that I would only be happy if I recevied something off the purchase price but to be fair a new replacement is the honourable solution.
Quite frankly this should not happen from any dealer let alone a Porsche dealership. Are they deliberately trying to feck us all off so we go elsewhere?
In your position I would be most disappointed, and I suspect it would somewhat sour the ownership experience and the purchase of a new car should be something special, especially a brand new car.
I would not tolerate a re-painted door and would kick up a fuss. I suppose, depends how much it bothers you. As others say you could give them another opportunity to put it right. But how on earth can they use such a substandard body shop for a brand new car? I am sure many people buy brand new cars, but would never know that they have been repaired, the fact that yours showed signs of the repair is piss poor.
Let us know what you decide to do. I would not give them another chance, they have already had two opportunities to put it right.
I would not tolerate a re-painted door and would kick up a fuss. I suppose, depends how much it bothers you. As others say you could give them another opportunity to put it right. But how on earth can they use such a substandard body shop for a brand new car? I am sure many people buy brand new cars, but would never know that they have been repaired, the fact that yours showed signs of the repair is piss poor.
Let us know what you decide to do. I would not give them another chance, they have already had two opportunities to put it right.
Whilst not ideal, if the paint shop are properly up to scratch you should not be able to find any sign of the repair afterwards and I mean up close & personal with a powerful torch!
I have had a couple of bits of paint work done by a Porsche approved local bodyshop (Reynolds of Rushock) and I can not find any evidence of the work (I'm very very fussy)
Bear in mind that not all body shops are that good unfortunately.....
I have had a couple of bits of paint work done by a Porsche approved local bodyshop (Reynolds of Rushock) and I can not find any evidence of the work (I'm very very fussy)
Bear in mind that not all body shops are that good unfortunately.....
I'd also be disappointed, but I think I would take the firm but friendly approach:
- You want the car restored to 'as new' condition
- You want an appropriate loan car during the interim
- If you are not satisfied you will reject it
Fortunately we're not in the US but I remember reading about a BMW that was supplied new with a repaired bonnet - he took it to court and was awarded US$ 4 million damages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/14/opinion/bmw-s-2-...
- You want the car restored to 'as new' condition
- You want an appropriate loan car during the interim
- If you are not satisfied you will reject it
Fortunately we're not in the US but I remember reading about a BMW that was supplied new with a repaired bonnet - he took it to court and was awarded US$ 4 million damages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/14/opinion/bmw-s-2-...
Reject ithe vehicle. The fact they didn't disclose this damage is appalling. I am not sure how they think by not being up front is better than the feeling you get when you find you have been duped. My last two 911's both approved used had a past the OPC did not disclose perhaps hoping I would not find out , who knows? Well I did find out and the last car I rejected. I am buying new this time against my better judgement in the hope of getting something that hasn't been fooked but it seems there is no guarantee either way!. I have been most unimpressed with the standard of late and as much as l love the brand if it goes wrong this time
I'm ouuuuut.
I'm ouuuuut.
Edited by Agent51 on Monday 11th March 16:26
Agent51 said:
Reject ithe vehicle. The fact they didn't disclose this damage is appalling. I am not sure how they think by not being up front is better than the feeling you get when you find you have been duped. My last two 911's both approved used had a past the OPC did not disclose perhaps hoping I would not find out , who knows? Well I did find out and the last car I rejected. I am buying new this time against my better judgement in the hope of getting something that hasn't been fooked but it seems there is no guarantee either way!. I have been most unimpressed with the standard of late and as much as love the brand if it goes wrong this time
I'm ouuuuut.
How did the rejection process go with your last car? How difficult was it?I'm ouuuuut.
Reminds me of a mate of my old man.
Many moons ago he ordered a new 6 series BMW , waited a few months for delivery , the day he was collecting it the dealer rang up and explained it had been slightly damaged and was in the body shop .
All he did was ask them how they could get another new car so quick after he had been waiting months .
He ended up getting a different colour car after refusing to accept the repaired new one.
Many moons ago he ordered a new 6 series BMW , waited a few months for delivery , the day he was collecting it the dealer rang up and explained it had been slightly damaged and was in the body shop .
All he did was ask them how they could get another new car so quick after he had been waiting months .
He ended up getting a different colour car after refusing to accept the repaired new one.
cervezaman said:
How did the rejection process go with your last car? How difficult was it?
At first they offered me a part ex price on the car which needless to say made me even more cross. I think when they realised I was not having any nonsense they decided the most painless route for everyone was a full refund. I do still think they are mind full of their reputation I just feel quality control is based more with consumer.Edited by Agent51 on Monday 11th March 16:51
MadMark911 said:
Hmm - not good! Have you engaged someone senior at the dealership yet? If not, perhaps now is the time!
Send it back, get a courtesy car and ask them not to retun it until it's perfect. Absolutely perfect!
The first two services for free sounds about right ......
I've been dealing with the DP at Porsche Silverstone and also Porsche GB. I picked the car up on Wednesday evening following the repair and expressed concern to the bodyshop about the sill. But I've had no telephone call from the dealership to make sure everything was OK.Send it back, get a courtesy car and ask them not to retun it until it's perfect. Absolutely perfect!
The first two services for free sounds about right ......
I emailed Porsche GB on Thursday but go no reply. When I phoned today basically they are waiting for me to decide whether I want to let the bodyshop have another go at it or not.
cervezaman said:
I've been dealing with the DP at Porsche Silverstone and also Porsche GB. I picked the car up on Wednesday evening following the repair and expressed concern to the bodyshop about the sill. But I've had no telephone call from the dealership to make sure everything was OK.
I emailed Porsche GB on Thursday but go no reply. When I phoned today basically they are waiting for me to decide whether I want to let the bodyshop have another go at it or not.
Your contract is with the OPC . I think Sliverstone is part of the Sytner group so you should get things resolved with them. Porsche GB were only marginally helpful in my case if at all.. I emailed Porsche GB on Thursday but go no reply. When I phoned today basically they are waiting for me to decide whether I want to let the bodyshop have another go at it or not.
cervezaman said:
Hi All,
I've been a bit quiet on here since I picked up my brand new 981 at the end of last year:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Anyway, after a couple of washes I noticed lots of scratches in the paintwork on the drivers door above the door handle. Total area about 8cm by 8cm. Looking closer I could see a paint run and also the door had a rough feeling in the middle of it. On the edge of the door the paint also felt rough as though it had no clear coat. To me it looked like the car had had a really bad smart repair.
If I'd noticed on collection then I wouldn't have signed for the car.
Anyway, Porsche dealership have admitted that my car has had a repair at some point (before it reached them) and it even turned up needing a new plastic trim between the window and door frame because it was damaged. It went into the Porsche bodyshop last week for the whole door to be repainted. On picking it up I noticed a couple of things, but the main issue is now there seems to be a large area of overspray on the door sill. Bodyshop are claiming that's from the original first repair, but I'm not too sure. It also came back with a chip to the paint inside the door shut, and for some reason a smell of WD40 and a patch of oil under the bottom of the door trim.
They've offered to have it back again, but I'm reluctant to let them near it again. I've got a brand new 981 that's only 4 months old (1100 miles) and has had the drivers door painted twice already and still needs to go back for further work.
I'd welcome any thoughts!
In your position, I would be pretty angry but I'd keep my cool and keep them onside. Give them the opportunity to rectify the situation and be clear that you will not accept the vehicle unless it looks like it just rolled off the production line. Ensure this position is clearly expressed in writing and document the full extent of your dissatisfaction with the current state of the repair and say that acceptance of the vehicle will be judged against this. I've been a bit quiet on here since I picked up my brand new 981 at the end of last year:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Anyway, after a couple of washes I noticed lots of scratches in the paintwork on the drivers door above the door handle. Total area about 8cm by 8cm. Looking closer I could see a paint run and also the door had a rough feeling in the middle of it. On the edge of the door the paint also felt rough as though it had no clear coat. To me it looked like the car had had a really bad smart repair.
If I'd noticed on collection then I wouldn't have signed for the car.
Anyway, Porsche dealership have admitted that my car has had a repair at some point (before it reached them) and it even turned up needing a new plastic trim between the window and door frame because it was damaged. It went into the Porsche bodyshop last week for the whole door to be repainted. On picking it up I noticed a couple of things, but the main issue is now there seems to be a large area of overspray on the door sill. Bodyshop are claiming that's from the original first repair, but I'm not too sure. It also came back with a chip to the paint inside the door shut, and for some reason a smell of WD40 and a patch of oil under the bottom of the door trim.
They've offered to have it back again, but I'm reluctant to let them near it again. I've got a brand new 981 that's only 4 months old (1100 miles) and has had the drivers door painted twice already and still needs to go back for further work.
I'd welcome any thoughts!
Should they successfully repair the door, I would then put it to the salesman and the dealer principal to rectify the fact that they have completely undermined your trust and their credibility by how they have dealt with you. I would be asking for a compensatory refund as apology but also take into account the inconvenience and disappointment. Maybe the initial damage was outside of their control but the secondary repair most certainly was as is the non disclosure of that initial damage.
If they fail to rectify this to your satisfaction, I would then insist on a replacement vehicle. They were not honest with you in the first instance and tried to pass off a poor repair where they were selling a brand new vehicle. Yes, you should have inspected it properly but it's Porsche and it's a premium brand, you don't expect that sort of behaviour, particularly from an OPC. if the OPC fails to cooperate, you can escalate to Head Office in the UK. I don't know the specifics of your case but it sounds like you would have grounds to lever them into complying with your wishes based on how they've treated you and having also failed to fix it properly once already.
I hope that you get it resolved and that it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of your car.
It wasn't up to you to notice when you collected it and they have admitted it so don't worry about that - it's them that should be worried. Instead of telling you at point of collection and checking that you were satisfied they hid it. Had they been clear and you'd rejected it they would have had a brand new car to sell to someone else (there is a process by which they can even un-register it with DVLA if it genuinely hasn't been used at all), whereas now they risk having it back as a few months old with a few miles on, so will achieve a lower sale price. That's their problem - they took the risk of not telling you.
If you do end up accepting back as satisfactorily repaired then make sure you get the paintwork documented and guaranteed. Differences in painting techniques, finishes etc can take years to come to light, so whilst it may look right when you get it back, it may not in a few years time and you're a bit stuck if there's no paper trail.
If I were in the position to order a new Porsche I'd be keen to take the factory collection option anyway, but even more so hearing of such poor treatment as this.
If you do end up accepting back as satisfactorily repaired then make sure you get the paintwork documented and guaranteed. Differences in painting techniques, finishes etc can take years to come to light, so whilst it may look right when you get it back, it may not in a few years time and you're a bit stuck if there's no paper trail.
If I were in the position to order a new Porsche I'd be keen to take the factory collection option anyway, but even more so hearing of such poor treatment as this.
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