Discussion
Several hurdles to overcome and for what ?
To keep it stock (intake position and drive pulleys etc) is going to involve a major move backwards, with chassis surgery. Or, leave it around stock position and major bulkhead surgery . Unless you go down the bespoke pulley/drive system route and have a one off intake/manifold solution.. as another option.
If you want to be different anything can be done, only cost limiting factors stand in your way.
To keep it stock (intake position and drive pulleys etc) is going to involve a major move backwards, with chassis surgery. Or, leave it around stock position and major bulkhead surgery . Unless you go down the bespoke pulley/drive system route and have a one off intake/manifold solution.. as another option.
If you want to be different anything can be done, only cost limiting factors stand in your way.
738 driver said:
Several hurdles to overcome and for what ?
To keep it stock (intake position and drive pulleys etc) is going to involve a major move backwards, with chassis surgery. Or, leave it around stock position and major bulkhead surgery . Unless you go down the bespoke pulley/drive system route and have a one off intake/manifold solution.. as another option.
If you want to be different anything can be done, only cost limiting factors stand in your way.
This is incorrect, I have one fitted to my standard GTR chassis without the need for any chassis or bulkhead modifications whilst using the standard GM brackets, belts, alternator and AC compressor. leem5 PM me for more details if you like.To keep it stock (intake position and drive pulleys etc) is going to involve a major move backwards, with chassis surgery. Or, leave it around stock position and major bulkhead surgery . Unless you go down the bespoke pulley/drive system route and have a one off intake/manifold solution.. as another option.
If you want to be different anything can be done, only cost limiting factors stand in your way.
Do share the correctness ..............
It appears very little different to the LS9 on its front end hurdles and overhangs ?
And I would still ask why unless it came at a great discount.. a low output blower motor is just creating complexity and hassles.. If you could get the stock output up 50% I'd see the attraction ?
It appears very little different to the LS9 on its front end hurdles and overhangs ?
And I would still ask why unless it came at a great discount.. a low output blower motor is just creating complexity and hassles.. If you could get the stock output up 50% I'd see the attraction ?
Edited by 738 driver on Tuesday 12th March 21:10
738 driver said:
Do share the correctness ..............
It appears very little different to the LS9 on its front end hurdles and overhangs ?
And I would still ask why unless it came at a great discount.. a low output blower motor is just creating complexity and hassles.. If you could get the stock output up 50% I'd see the attraction ?
+1 just interested, Photos??It appears very little different to the LS9 on its front end hurdles and overhangs ?
And I would still ask why unless it came at a great discount.. a low output blower motor is just creating complexity and hassles.. If you could get the stock output up 50% I'd see the attraction ?
Edited by 738 driver on Tuesday 12th March 21:10
chuntington101 said:
Supposed to be very good engine with really good head! Not as strong as the LS9 units though (think L:S9 has more forged stuff in there).
AFAIK the valvetrain make up is LS3, cast pistons, "powdered metal"rods , forged crank, six bolt mains.low compression engine (probably to give the pistons a chance). Limited to 6200 rpm in standard trim, apparently good for 550ish American horses!
F.C. said:
AFAIK the valvetrain make up is LS3, cast pistons, "powdered metal"rods , forged crank, six bolt mains.
low compression engine (probably to give the pistons a chance). Limited to 6200 rpm in standard trim, apparently good for 550ish American horses!
...with extra weight high up and more to cool...low compression engine (probably to give the pistons a chance). Limited to 6200 rpm in standard trim, apparently good for 550ish American horses!
With the Amerspeed LS3 kicking out 530 odd hp, are you really going to notice the difference of 20hp on the road?
F.C. said:
chuntington101 said:
Supposed to be very good engine with really good head! Not as strong as the LS9 units though (think L:S9 has more forged stuff in there).
AFAIK the valvetrain make up is LS3, cast pistons, "powdered metal"rods , forged crank, six bolt mains.low compression engine (probably to give the pistons a chance). Limited to 6200 rpm in standard trim, apparently good for 550ish American horses!
The Camaro guys seem to be pushing them pretty hard these days. To be fair the reasons why engine choices are made are personal.... however this installation without any chassis or body mods is very interesting..
Regularly we see builders removing / relocating /alternate securing sections of tube etc in their quest for big power or differing drivetrain but the end product being usable has to be a firm consideration.
Ive done a one off GTR blower unit and to do it efficiently without any mods isnt easy.
Regularly we see builders removing / relocating /alternate securing sections of tube etc in their quest for big power or differing drivetrain but the end product being usable has to be a firm consideration.
Ive done a one off GTR blower unit and to do it efficiently without any mods isnt easy.
chuntington101 said:
Stand corected then mate! The Camaro guys seem to be pushing them pretty hard these days.
Not at all, seems a decent enough engine, just think money would be better spent on say an LS3 with decent forged internals and better valve train components to give better rpm ceiling, The Camaro guys seem to be pushing them pretty hard these days. THEN blow it with a CF/charger or Turbo's
.F.C. said:
chuntington101 said:
Stand corected then mate! The Camaro guys seem to be pushing them pretty hard these days.
Not at all, seems a decent enough engine, just think money would be better spent on say an LS3 with decent forged internals and better valve train components to give better rpm ceiling, The Camaro guys seem to be pushing them pretty hard these days. THEN blow it with a CF/charger or Turbo's
.Then again a stock LS3 with forged bottom end would give you the same, and as you said probably for a lot less!
Chris.
Surely by the time you have had an LS3's internals changed, and any other mods made, you are talking the same cost as an LS7, which has the advantage of the (semi)dry sump and more torque.
Is it a case that some people like to say that their engine has had lots of special bits added!!!
Isn't the LS7 the only LS engine that can produce up to 700hp without forced induction of some form if you want that sort of hp.
Paul
Is it a case that some people like to say that their engine has had lots of special bits added!!!
Isn't the LS7 the only LS engine that can produce up to 700hp without forced induction of some form if you want that sort of hp.
Paul
Lots of opinions and experiences out there Paul....EG there are several 7 blocks that have failed around the top of the bores at lowish power levels... (Ive a US contact that was well hacked off after parting with his wallet for a 680hp version that split a cylinder liner at 300 miles) And no doubt many failures of other LS versions in other areas.
Pays money and takes chance.
A darton sleeved Ls2 seems a favourite for the blower builders.
The LSX block built are probably the safest crate motor for big outputs... the LSX376 is a cracking buy (4k-ish) for a bolt on centrifugal blower job...with room left to grow too.... have been tempted that route several times.
All interesting stuff........
Pays money and takes chance.
A darton sleeved Ls2 seems a favourite for the blower builders.
The LSX block built are probably the safest crate motor for big outputs... the LSX376 is a cracking buy (4k-ish) for a bolt on centrifugal blower job...with room left to grow too.... have been tempted that route several times.
All interesting stuff........
I've come across several ls2 blocks which have had cam bearings walking sideways. Some people in the know say that GM put less material into the blocks in order to save weight. The ls1 block is the better bet for Darton sleeves imo. It has more substance and wasn't made to suffer from cost cutting like the later blocks.
There do seem to be quite a few guys out there who have found their modified engine having issues after a while, especially when they have pushed the hp.
Many are tuned above where they would be for track racing, so when they fail because someone fails to remember they are dealing with an engine that needs a careful warm-up procedure, can anyone be surprised!
I know this is not always the case but I suspect it is a factor in most.
It seems to me that the nearer you can get to your required hp with a standard engine, the more reliable it will be.
Paul
Many are tuned above where they would be for track racing, so when they fail because someone fails to remember they are dealing with an engine that needs a careful warm-up procedure, can anyone be surprised!
I know this is not always the case but I suspect it is a factor in most.
It seems to me that the nearer you can get to your required hp with a standard engine, the more reliable it will be.
Paul
Thanks for all the replies.
Interesting that some see it not fitting without mods. I like the idea of a crate SC engine, though a different type of SC, the system I have fitted to the M5 seems to work well with the V8.
Why is cooling brought up as a potential issue? There are other mid mounted 'charged cars. Is it due restrictions in the GTR chassis specifically?
Cheers
Interesting that some see it not fitting without mods. I like the idea of a crate SC engine, though a different type of SC, the system I have fitted to the M5 seems to work well with the V8.
Why is cooling brought up as a potential issue? There are other mid mounted 'charged cars. Is it due restrictions in the GTR chassis specifically?
Cheers
Boosted LS1 said:
I've come across several ls2 blocks which have had cam bearings walking sideways. Some people in the know say that GM put less material into the blocks in order to save weight. The ls1 block is the better bet for Darton sleeves imo. It has more substance and wasn't made to suffer from cost cutting like the later blocks.
Have you heard of any issues with the LS3 blocks? ^ The stock LS motors normally sit a little forward of the original SBC (using engine adapter plates that reposition the three bolt mounts) which for the car is a good thing but a front mounted/driven/fed charger set-up is awkward. Moving the engine reaward (by placing the rubbers directly on the block mounting pads) might solve the front end clearance issues but normally presents others at the rear. And from those with full build/driving experience moving things rearward in the Ultima is NOT the thing to do !
Its probably unfair to say that only charger installations have heat issues.. its common in most major HP fits . Simple physics, if you want a big increase in power, more energy needs producing and the heating by-product increases too, all within the same clip volume. Many threads on rear clip cooling/venting. Close attention to dissipation of heat usually works these issues out (and make certain to plumb the LS correctly as per GM design.. otherwise it will continually overheat at idle/low RPM !)
As you mention the type of charger, that again is an experience issue... we are not moving a large heavy lump via a fluid coupling here (as in many a US production car) so masses of low and mid torque are a waste (why have it and kill it all with traction control??). So a standard geared screw compressor really needs mods to move the boost point ...or start with a suitable engine unit and fit a centrifugal blower which will be more suited to a high rpm boost curve.
Only based on opinion and having worked on this very scenario in the past... not to bash anyones personal choices.
The factory record car is a 'simple machine' thats well matched and very capable... a good combo many would say .
Its probably unfair to say that only charger installations have heat issues.. its common in most major HP fits . Simple physics, if you want a big increase in power, more energy needs producing and the heating by-product increases too, all within the same clip volume. Many threads on rear clip cooling/venting. Close attention to dissipation of heat usually works these issues out (and make certain to plumb the LS correctly as per GM design.. otherwise it will continually overheat at idle/low RPM !)
As you mention the type of charger, that again is an experience issue... we are not moving a large heavy lump via a fluid coupling here (as in many a US production car) so masses of low and mid torque are a waste (why have it and kill it all with traction control??). So a standard geared screw compressor really needs mods to move the boost point ...or start with a suitable engine unit and fit a centrifugal blower which will be more suited to a high rpm boost curve.
Only based on opinion and having worked on this very scenario in the past... not to bash anyones personal choices.
The factory record car is a 'simple machine' thats well matched and very capable... a good combo many would say .
Edited by 738 driver on Thursday 14th March 10:25
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