Second car options - e9x m3 - Sub £20k - danger danger??
Discussion
Hi folks,
Being in the position of changing my car next month or so, and the aim was a 135i or 335i.
However i have a honda prelude i used before i bought my Audi a3 and it still MOT'd and is a perfect runner.
I had been thinking about keeping it and running it as my daily and getting something fruity.
Having a perusal of the classifieds i am finding that e9x M3 coupe's are in the sub £20 bracket, which was surprising, or even the low £22k area.
I have looked at E46 m3's a while ago but stories of M parts prices and sub frame issues always makes me hesitate.
However the e9x cars are only around 4.5 years old now and seeing them with circa £35-40k miles would such a purchase be ruinous.
I am aware of the running costs of such cars, but as a second car doing say 5-8k PA wouldnt put much of a strain on consumables.
I would run 18" wheels so good rubber is about £100 cheaper at each corner, even Michelin pilots.
They seem reliable cars with no major dramas, just the usual M parts premium for the likes of brakes and suspension, but i am good with a spanner and can do most jobs so would save on labour, i have a good independant near me for servicing etc. Insurance is about £100 more than equivelant 3 series so £460 a year fully comp.
The thirst is okay as 15-20mpg would be fine on a second car.
My main issue is are these cars sitting at sub £20k for a reason or is this just where prices have fallen to for 2008 cars etc.
It would be something i would be looking at keeping for 4-5 years as i have always loved M cars and have wanted a V8 for many years, i am 31 this year and kids will be in the offing in a few years i feel so wanted to scratch the fun itch before i need a 4 door M3 haha.
Any advice on e9x m3's and the costs being where they are would be great, as want to have a good muse about the idea of a second car before i look into it further.
Being in the position of changing my car next month or so, and the aim was a 135i or 335i.
However i have a honda prelude i used before i bought my Audi a3 and it still MOT'd and is a perfect runner.
I had been thinking about keeping it and running it as my daily and getting something fruity.
Having a perusal of the classifieds i am finding that e9x M3 coupe's are in the sub £20 bracket, which was surprising, or even the low £22k area.
I have looked at E46 m3's a while ago but stories of M parts prices and sub frame issues always makes me hesitate.
However the e9x cars are only around 4.5 years old now and seeing them with circa £35-40k miles would such a purchase be ruinous.
I am aware of the running costs of such cars, but as a second car doing say 5-8k PA wouldnt put much of a strain on consumables.
I would run 18" wheels so good rubber is about £100 cheaper at each corner, even Michelin pilots.
They seem reliable cars with no major dramas, just the usual M parts premium for the likes of brakes and suspension, but i am good with a spanner and can do most jobs so would save on labour, i have a good independant near me for servicing etc. Insurance is about £100 more than equivelant 3 series so £460 a year fully comp.
The thirst is okay as 15-20mpg would be fine on a second car.
My main issue is are these cars sitting at sub £20k for a reason or is this just where prices have fallen to for 2008 cars etc.
It would be something i would be looking at keeping for 4-5 years as i have always loved M cars and have wanted a V8 for many years, i am 31 this year and kids will be in the offing in a few years i feel so wanted to scratch the fun itch before i need a 4 door M3 haha.
Any advice on e9x m3's and the costs being where they are would be great, as want to have a good muse about the idea of a second car before i look into it further.
sounds like you might be stretching yourself if youre looking at the bottom end of the market...
E46 M3 with money in the bank if it goes wrong...?
Sub frame cracks if not already done can be treated under warranty if you got an 03 or newer car or done for a grand...
But if youre set on the E92 then fair enough. It'll be awesome, just as long as you have your eyes open...
E46 M3 with money in the bank if it goes wrong...?
Sub frame cracks if not already done can be treated under warranty if you got an 03 or newer car or done for a grand...
But if youre set on the E92 then fair enough. It'll be awesome, just as long as you have your eyes open...
I guess you could get a dog, but if you're careful when you buy you should be ok.
I've got a 2008 e92 m3, i bought it in december 2011 with 27k miles on the clock, I've since done another 14000.
There are no major recurring horror stories out there, but a fairly common weakpoint seems to be the throttle actuators which comes in at around £1k to fix. Aside from that I think they're pretty reliable. I've had no issues with mine.
Servicing is pretty reasonable at around every 15k miles or 2 years. There is a fairly big service at around 30k miles which needs engine oil, spark plugs, gearbox oil and diff oil, which is quite pricey (about ££800-£1k).
A full set of tyres are around £1k for the 19 inch wheels, must be less for the 18 inchers. and should see you through 15-20k miles.
Fuel economy is fairly poor, I average 20mpg over the last 14k miles.
Road tax is a bit harsh at £475 pa.
its not a cheap car to run, but its not that expensive either.
I've got a 2008 e92 m3, i bought it in december 2011 with 27k miles on the clock, I've since done another 14000.
There are no major recurring horror stories out there, but a fairly common weakpoint seems to be the throttle actuators which comes in at around £1k to fix. Aside from that I think they're pretty reliable. I've had no issues with mine.
Servicing is pretty reasonable at around every 15k miles or 2 years. There is a fairly big service at around 30k miles which needs engine oil, spark plugs, gearbox oil and diff oil, which is quite pricey (about ££800-£1k).
A full set of tyres are around £1k for the 19 inch wheels, must be less for the 18 inchers. and should see you through 15-20k miles.
Fuel economy is fairly poor, I average 20mpg over the last 14k miles.
Road tax is a bit harsh at £475 pa.
its not a cheap car to run, but its not that expensive either.
I am really just having an exploratory look at this atm.
I could get a good E46 m3 coupe for circa £12-15K and this would be coverable with cash in hand and some finance over say 3 years and be paying about what i am for my 53 plate A3 a month!
So covering consumables like michelins, brakes, possible suspension refresh etc on cars that have on average about 30-45k miles.
The e92 cars are about the same mileage but would be a higher cost a month, about £60pm more than i am paying at the moment.
As this would be as a second car its less of an issue for remedial work etc if necessary as i wouldnt be car less etc.
Main pic would be manual cars and i would be looking at warranties obviously.
My only worry about the sub frame is having to get under cars, look into them with lights etc and many dealers would probably tell me to eff off.
I could get a good E46 m3 coupe for circa £12-15K and this would be coverable with cash in hand and some finance over say 3 years and be paying about what i am for my 53 plate A3 a month!
So covering consumables like michelins, brakes, possible suspension refresh etc on cars that have on average about 30-45k miles.
The e92 cars are about the same mileage but would be a higher cost a month, about £60pm more than i am paying at the moment.
As this would be as a second car its less of an issue for remedial work etc if necessary as i wouldnt be car less etc.
Main pic would be manual cars and i would be looking at warranties obviously.
My only worry about the sub frame is having to get under cars, look into them with lights etc and many dealers would probably tell me to eff off.
This is showing my ignorance, EDC?
The other thing i would need to find out is service times, like Intermediate 2 etc, but i know i can go on specific forums for that.
My main issue at the moment is would running it even as a second car be pointless unless i had £5k in the bank at all times 'just in case'
My main budgeting for a car is expected consumables, fuel and oil, periodic consumables - Brakes, springs, filters, rare consumables - Shocks, clutch and then unexpected issues, such as some cars have like the SMG E46 and the pump etc.
using the car to just fill it with fuel and a set of tyres each year would be fine, and the services etc you just plan for and look for good indy etc.
The other thing i would need to find out is service times, like Intermediate 2 etc, but i know i can go on specific forums for that.
My main issue at the moment is would running it even as a second car be pointless unless i had £5k in the bank at all times 'just in case'
My main budgeting for a car is expected consumables, fuel and oil, periodic consumables - Brakes, springs, filters, rare consumables - Shocks, clutch and then unexpected issues, such as some cars have like the SMG E46 and the pump etc.
using the car to just fill it with fuel and a set of tyres each year would be fine, and the services etc you just plan for and look for good indy etc.
EDC = Electronic damper control - lets you vary the stiffness of the dampers to give a firmer or softer ride, also actively varies the damping according to the road surface/driving style..
Personally - I deliberately set out to avoid this option as the cost of replacing them when worn is high, having said that though you could always just replace them with regular dampers when these wear out.
As mentioned above, servicing is typically every 15000 miles or 2 years, there is no concept of inspection 1,2, etc with the e92 M3.
The service book contains the details, but typically its engine oil every time, followed by the usual series of checks, and then things like spark plugs, gearbox oil, diff oil, air filter that dont need replacing at every service are specified on an 'every x services' basis. Budget £400 for a basic oil service, and up to £1k if all those things need doing at the same time.
The on board computer maintains a counter for the 'main' services has a seperate service counter for the brake fluid (cost £100), and also tracks brake pad wear. So this will tell you when all this is due.
I think you'd be unlucky to get significant bills on a good condition low mileage e92 M3. Mine is an everyday car, I wouldnt use it as such if I thought it was in any way fragile, or unreliable.
Personally - I deliberately set out to avoid this option as the cost of replacing them when worn is high, having said that though you could always just replace them with regular dampers when these wear out.
As mentioned above, servicing is typically every 15000 miles or 2 years, there is no concept of inspection 1,2, etc with the e92 M3.
The service book contains the details, but typically its engine oil every time, followed by the usual series of checks, and then things like spark plugs, gearbox oil, diff oil, air filter that dont need replacing at every service are specified on an 'every x services' basis. Budget £400 for a basic oil service, and up to £1k if all those things need doing at the same time.
The on board computer maintains a counter for the 'main' services has a seperate service counter for the brake fluid (cost £100), and also tracks brake pad wear. So this will tell you when all this is due.
I think you'd be unlucky to get significant bills on a good condition low mileage e92 M3. Mine is an everyday car, I wouldnt use it as such if I thought it was in any way fragile, or unreliable.
This sounds more promising in terms of the e92 over the e46, like they have made the newer m3 more everyday but still a high end car to keep, i.e. not £200 servicing with 2 year gaps etc.
I would expect an annual service anyway, even as a second car, but my worry would be if the car had say an underlying issue which could cause ruin if it went.
However if its seen as a reliable car if gutsy then i am happier to look at them as an option in the lower end of the £18k bracket.
its things like the sub frame horror stories and internet terror that make you think twice, but like the 996 engine and 'everyone WILL blow up stories'
I would expect an annual service anyway, even as a second car, but my worry would be if the car had say an underlying issue which could cause ruin if it went.
However if its seen as a reliable car if gutsy then i am happier to look at them as an option in the lower end of the £18k bracket.
its things like the sub frame horror stories and internet terror that make you think twice, but like the 996 engine and 'everyone WILL blow up stories'
There arent many horror stories out there on the internet, its the main thing I looked for before I bought mine. if the internet is full of the same problem then you can bet its a real problem (like the e46 subframe - but to be honest that isnt a major problem either) .
There was very little that showed up as a problem when I was researching mine, the only thing that came up was the throttle actuators. This does seem reasonably likely to happen at some point in the life of the car, and there are no warning signs - one day you're driving along and all the warning lights come on, but its not that expensive to fix.
There are a couple of tales in the US of main bearing failure, but it doesnt seem to be a prevalent issue, given the numbers of cars that have been built. There are a lot of high mile (100k) 2007/2008 cars out there still going strong.
Having said all of this I still decided to keep things simple and opted for a manual gearbox over the DCT, and no EDC, as a means of trying to minimise my exposure to big bills. But both these extras are generally (according to the internet) proving to be pretty reliable and trouble free so far.
It is a specialist bit of kit though, and the engine wouldnt be out of place in a ferrari,It really is an awesome engine. So if it does explode into lots of tiny pieces I think you're looking at the best part of £20k for a brand new crate engine from BMW.
There was very little that showed up as a problem when I was researching mine, the only thing that came up was the throttle actuators. This does seem reasonably likely to happen at some point in the life of the car, and there are no warning signs - one day you're driving along and all the warning lights come on, but its not that expensive to fix.
There are a couple of tales in the US of main bearing failure, but it doesnt seem to be a prevalent issue, given the numbers of cars that have been built. There are a lot of high mile (100k) 2007/2008 cars out there still going strong.
Having said all of this I still decided to keep things simple and opted for a manual gearbox over the DCT, and no EDC, as a means of trying to minimise my exposure to big bills. But both these extras are generally (according to the internet) proving to be pretty reliable and trouble free so far.
It is a specialist bit of kit though, and the engine wouldnt be out of place in a ferrari,It really is an awesome engine. So if it does explode into lots of tiny pieces I think you're looking at the best part of £20k for a brand new crate engine from BMW.
Edited by julians on Wednesday 13th March 15:32
Edited by julians on Wednesday 13th March 15:34
The main thing i am mulling over is the cost to buy the car, i would be looking at either a 3 year loan for an e46 or a 5 year loan for an e92.
This is so i have payments that mean if anything ever went wrong etc, loss of job, illness etc, i could cover payments for a long period before any issues.
This is just to ease future unknowns, not that i couldnt afford a higher monthly payment etc.
I would be planning to keep either car for a good while, as my 'nice' car etc, i am not into wanting to change each year or the like, i just am looking seriously at the idea of paying more for a good car that brings a smile to my face and would keep rather than a basic cooking variety car that i will get bored with in 2 years.
I have bike for fun but tbh after the CB1000R is paid i wont probably buy another bike, i have a wee 400 i am restoring to scratch that itch, so in 2 years i will have about £6.5k from selling the bike.
So its a lot to think about, a 120d at 14k cash\loan or an M3 e46/e92 for 15-20k over 5 years cash\loan.
I have set a celing of about £300pm for any finance which is easily coverable
hmm
This is so i have payments that mean if anything ever went wrong etc, loss of job, illness etc, i could cover payments for a long period before any issues.
This is just to ease future unknowns, not that i couldnt afford a higher monthly payment etc.
I would be planning to keep either car for a good while, as my 'nice' car etc, i am not into wanting to change each year or the like, i just am looking seriously at the idea of paying more for a good car that brings a smile to my face and would keep rather than a basic cooking variety car that i will get bored with in 2 years.
I have bike for fun but tbh after the CB1000R is paid i wont probably buy another bike, i have a wee 400 i am restoring to scratch that itch, so in 2 years i will have about £6.5k from selling the bike.
So its a lot to think about, a 120d at 14k cash\loan or an M3 e46/e92 for 15-20k over 5 years cash\loan.
I have set a celing of about £300pm for any finance which is easily coverable
hmm
pjv997 said:
In my view - go manual, EDC and 19s.
I second this as that's what I went for, OP it is a fantastic allrounder & if you are using it as a second car fuel won't be crippling & servicing will be manageable & you need to scratch the V8 itch...but be warned you will always want a V8 once you have had one I am on my third V8 now & as much as I loved my Z4M six cylinders was never enough for me! 
cerb4.5lee said:
pjv997 said:
In my view - go manual, EDC and 19s.
I second this as that's what I went for, OP it is a fantastic allrounder & if you are using it as a second car fuel won't be crippling & servicing will be manageable & you need to scratch the V8 itch...but be warned you will always want a V8 once you have had one I am on my third V8 now & as much as I loved my Z4M six cylinders was never enough for me! Is the E93 M3 really a good car after a Z4M? I'm worried it might feel a bit heavy...
GroundEffect said:
cerb4.5lee said:
pjv997 said:
In my view - go manual, EDC and 19s.
I second this as that's what I went for, OP it is a fantastic allrounder & if you are using it as a second car fuel won't be crippling & servicing will be manageable & you need to scratch the V8 itch...but be warned you will always want a V8 once you have had one I am on my third V8 now & as much as I loved my Z4M six cylinders was never enough for me! Is the E93 M3 really a good car after a Z4M? I'm worried it might feel a bit heavy...
When he drove my zed after his M3 he did describe the zed as a powerful go kart & it is a far more lively drive than the M3 as the m3 feels more like a 5 series to drive when pottering around, but the m3 soon turns into an animal if you want it to, its a real Jekyll & Hyde car which appeals to me.
Get a test drive in the E93 & see what you think, they are obviously different & having two seats in the zed does make it feel special...but the V8 in the M3 is a real masterpiece
If you can afford the M3 go and get one. The E9X M3 is probably more reliable in the long run than a 135/335 due to the lack of turbos. I originally planned on a getting M3 but my wife said no to it. So I ended up getting a 335 and spending £££s modifying it to get it as close to a M3 as possible. I wouldn't trade my 335 for a M3 now, but my mates stock E90 M3 still feels that bit more special...
So go for it, BMW isn't going to be making another high reving V8 any time soon (if ever again).
So go for it, BMW isn't going to be making another high reving V8 any time soon (if ever again).
Go for it! I love my e92 m3.
Mines white 28k on the clock, with 19s, edc, manual and few other options.
I've purchased the BMW warranty for mine. At £900 for a year, it's a big amount, but I wasn't prepared to take the risk without it. As others have said 1 big bill and its covered its cost
Mines white 28k on the clock, with 19s, edc, manual and few other options.
I've purchased the BMW warranty for mine. At £900 for a year, it's a big amount, but I wasn't prepared to take the risk without it. As others have said 1 big bill and its covered its cost
The main issue with the e92 is the sub £20k cars are usually cat D from tiny dent or vandalised paint.
However lots of very nice e46 coupes for £9-£12k hmm
Sensible head says e46, could get one for £200 a month and have £100 a month for warranty cover for peace of mind.
Hmm it's becoming awful tempting
However lots of very nice e46 coupes for £9-£12k hmm
Sensible head says e46, could get one for £200 a month and have £100 a month for warranty cover for peace of mind.
Hmm it's becoming awful tempting
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