what to look for in a historic rally car?
Discussion
I’m looking to buy a historic (pre-1969) rally car because want to get into winter-,ice- and TSD rallying next year.
My dream is to enter the historic rally monte-carlo in 2015. Of course only after attending a few rallying courses.
The big question is which car is the right one for these purposes. My budget is 20000 GBP.
On my short list is the Austin/Morris Mini Mk1 or a Saab 96 two-stroker but everybody told me that FWD cars are no fun to drive in winter. I test drove a friends Mini Cooper Mk 1 in snow and beg to differ... but I understand that throwing a RWD car around corners is more entertaining over time.
The biggest issue with the two stroke saabs is that the engines need very frequent rebuilds when they are tuned to 90 hp+ and there is only a handful of specialists for strokers left which drives the price up. Minis on the other hand have cheap parts available and lots of aftermarket support.
Then there’s the Renault R8 (maybe as a gordini replica) as a loveable rear engined oddball but power over 80hp is hard to come by. Escort Mk1 is a classic and everybody says it handles like a dream but the ones I have found are way out of my budget.
Volvo Amazon is another obvious choice but my local events have ~75% of all drivers starting in an Amazon and I like to stand out.
What am I missing, PHers?
Depends on a lot of things
Do you want to be competitive or are you rallying for the experience?
The Monte, it's a heck of a long way in a Mini when something bigger (and arguably different) would offer better creature comforts.
If you intend driving like the photo posted then a good rollcage, harnesses and safeties are paramount.
Look at the previous entrants and see the kind of cars that have entered. Personally if you are starting from scratch I would go along the lines of something different, away from Porsche 911, Ford Escorts, Mini et al. A well sorted Triumph or MG could be a good start Alfas's just look awesome, even when standing still in a rally setup. Ford Anglia were successful in the early 60's.
The list is never ending, so why follow everyone else? Keep us posted.
Do you want to be competitive or are you rallying for the experience?
The Monte, it's a heck of a long way in a Mini when something bigger (and arguably different) would offer better creature comforts.
If you intend driving like the photo posted then a good rollcage, harnesses and safeties are paramount.
Look at the previous entrants and see the kind of cars that have entered. Personally if you are starting from scratch I would go along the lines of something different, away from Porsche 911, Ford Escorts, Mini et al. A well sorted Triumph or MG could be a good start Alfas's just look awesome, even when standing still in a rally setup. Ford Anglia were successful in the early 60's.
The list is never ending, so why follow everyone else? Keep us posted.
Slightly over budget:
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...
You would however be buying a car which actually competed in the 65 Monte Carlo Rally.
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...
You would however be buying a car which actually competed in the 65 Monte Carlo Rally.
alpinemauve said:
Depends on a lot of things
Do you want to be competitive or are you rallying for the experience?
The Monte, it's a heck of a long way in a Mini when something bigger (and arguably different) would offer better creature comforts.
If you intend driving like the photo posted then a good rollcage, harnesses and safeties are paramount.
Look at the previous entrants and see the kind of cars that have entered. Personally if you are starting from scratch I would go along the lines of something different, away from Porsche 911, Ford Escorts, Mini et al. A well sorted Triumph or MG could be a good start Alfas's just look awesome, even when standing still in a rally setup. Ford Anglia were successful in the early 60's.
The list is never ending, so why follow everyone else? Keep us posted.
I’m definitely doing it for the experience. I am not nearly good enough of a driver to compete for ranks. To me it would be all about finishing which in the monte is quite an achievement itself. All safety equipment you have mentioned (plus large spots and maybe even a fire extinguisher system, helm, neck collar, etc) is a must have in my eyes. Do you want to be competitive or are you rallying for the experience?
The Monte, it's a heck of a long way in a Mini when something bigger (and arguably different) would offer better creature comforts.
If you intend driving like the photo posted then a good rollcage, harnesses and safeties are paramount.
Look at the previous entrants and see the kind of cars that have entered. Personally if you are starting from scratch I would go along the lines of something different, away from Porsche 911, Ford Escorts, Mini et al. A well sorted Triumph or MG could be a good start Alfas's just look awesome, even when standing still in a rally setup. Ford Anglia were successful in the early 60's.
The list is never ending, so why follow everyone else? Keep us posted.
Not so experienced drivers are even more likely to crash than the veterans, so why should only the fast professionals buy good safety equipment?
And I would love to go down a different path. Away from the usual suspects such as the ones you have listed. The problem is that I live in Europe (currently in Switzerland) and just don’t quite know what I’m looking for. Every event I see around here has 40% Porsches, 30% Volvos, 20% VW Beetles and 10% others.
That Reliant that posted above is a perfect example of what I’m looking for.
If that car in the sale ad would have been the "WGV 287" pictured, I would have bought it on the spot.
timbrooks said:
That Reliant that posted above is a perfect example of what I’m looking for.
If that car in the sale ad would have been the "WGV 287" pictured, I would have bought it on the spot.
Ahh sorry. Got the wrong pics! It's actually 660 XYB that's for sale. It's lost it registration sometime in the past.If that car in the sale ad would have been the "WGV 287" pictured, I would have bought it on the spot.
http://www.sporting-reliants.com/reliant_motorspor...
Still a genuine Monte Carlo Rally car though and it's a well know car within the owners club with the correct provenance as far as I am aware.
Tim, you sound just like me 
I don't like doing things the way others do, either. That's why I built this:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/c348380
I'm currently selling to change for something else, around your sort of budgetish, say up to 30k. My list so far is:
Lancia Fulvia 1600HF
Alfa 1750
Alfa Montreal
Porsche 914
Alpine A310
Ferrari 308GT4 Dino (mad, mad, mad!)
I'd lend serious consideration to a FWD car for your first rally on snow/ice. I know my first big European event (Champagne/Germany/Austria/back again) I was hugely grateful for FWD for about 80% of the time. Combined with good winter tyres it is comforting when you've got time to make up over an Alp in the dark.
Fulvia is a good shout.
Remember Monte qualifying cars. Don't have to be pre-69, anything up to Dec 31 1981 that ran in period is eligible, have a look at http://www.acm.mc/documents/5/RMCH13_voitures-elli... for a list.
Happy reading!
I don't like doing things the way others do, either. That's why I built this:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/c348380
I'm currently selling to change for something else, around your sort of budgetish, say up to 30k. My list so far is:
Lancia Fulvia 1600HF
Alfa 1750
Alfa Montreal
Porsche 914
Alpine A310
Ferrari 308GT4 Dino (mad, mad, mad!)
I'd lend serious consideration to a FWD car for your first rally on snow/ice. I know my first big European event (Champagne/Germany/Austria/back again) I was hugely grateful for FWD for about 80% of the time. Combined with good winter tyres it is comforting when you've got time to make up over an Alp in the dark.
Fulvia is a good shout.
Remember Monte qualifying cars. Don't have to be pre-69, anything up to Dec 31 1981 that ran in period is eligible, have a look at http://www.acm.mc/documents/5/RMCH13_voitures-elli... for a list.
Happy reading!
benjj said:
Tim, you sound just like me
I don't like doing things the way others do, either. That's why I built this:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/c348380
I'm currently selling to change for something else, around your sort of budgetish, say up to 30k. My list so far is:
Lancia Fulvia 1600HF
Alfa 1750
Alfa Montreal
Porsche 914
Alpine A310
Ferrari 308GT4 Dino (mad, mad, mad!)
I'd lend serious consideration to a FWD car for your first rally on snow/ice. I know my first big European event (Champagne/Germany/Austria/back again) I was hugely grateful for FWD for about 80% of the time. Combined with good winter tyres it is comforting when you've got time to make up over an Alp in the dark.
Fulvia is a good shout.
Remember Monte qualifying cars. Don't have to be pre-69, anything up to Dec 31 1981 that ran in period is eligible, have a look at http://www.acm.mc/documents/5/RMCH13_voitures-elli... for a list.
Happy reading!
Ben, thats a great DS! Looks like a great car, although I think I would prefer a more compact car on the small roads. But I never drove a DS before, so I shouldn’t be so quick to judge. I don't like doing things the way others do, either. That's why I built this:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/c348380
I'm currently selling to change for something else, around your sort of budgetish, say up to 30k. My list so far is:
Lancia Fulvia 1600HF
Alfa 1750
Alfa Montreal
Porsche 914
Alpine A310
Ferrari 308GT4 Dino (mad, mad, mad!)
I'd lend serious consideration to a FWD car for your first rally on snow/ice. I know my first big European event (Champagne/Germany/Austria/back again) I was hugely grateful for FWD for about 80% of the time. Combined with good winter tyres it is comforting when you've got time to make up over an Alp in the dark.
Fulvia is a good shout.
Remember Monte qualifying cars. Don't have to be pre-69, anything up to Dec 31 1981 that ran in period is eligible, have a look at http://www.acm.mc/documents/5/RMCH13_voitures-elli... for a list.
Happy reading!
Your list looks well thought out, the Alfa Montreal would make for quite an interesting rally car. As far as I know it’s basically a series 105 Alfa with a glorious V8 engine and heavy bodywork. Brakes are a bit of a weak point but that’s nothing that can’t be solved.
The Porsche 914 with a 6 cylinder engine swap could be interesting to drive too, unfortunately both of those cars are out of my date and price range.
I would prefer a car that was built before 1969 because that is the cutoff for the "older" (and thus slower) class in many local events.
The suggestions here so far are very interesting. I never thought of a A 40, but Mini Cooper S engine with RWD is a good point.
benjj, I’d like to contact you but PH doesn’t allow emails during the first 24 hours after registration. Would you mind if I send you an email via your DS form? (it’s not about your particular car but related to this topic)
Edited by timbrooks on Wednesday 13th March 19:07
How about this
http://www.targaflorioclassics.co.uk/65-lancia-ful...
There are many Fulvia coupes in the Monte each year but you won't see many 2cs and they are charming cars. And relatively cheap.
Or if budget permits and you fancy a coupe this one is ready to go:
http://www.targaflorioclassics.co.uk/75-fulvia-mon...
Tough choice!
http://www.targaflorioclassics.co.uk/65-lancia-ful...
There are many Fulvia coupes in the Monte each year but you won't see many 2cs and they are charming cars. And relatively cheap.
Or if budget permits and you fancy a coupe this one is ready to go:
http://www.targaflorioclassics.co.uk/75-fulvia-mon...
Tough choice!
aw51 121565 said:
- but they were tough cars!)? 
Not that tough, back in the day when we rallied minis' we did not strengthen the shells other than to fit a roll cage (we had a plentiful supply of shells) our shells averaged 3 rallies, the first sign was the box section that goes under the seat would kink at the handbrake. I have to say that reinforcing the shells was my preferred option, but I was out voted by the rest of the team.G
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff