Why are TV's not calibrated correctly out of the box?
Discussion
Just asking, seems the first thing everyone does is get the TV out of its box and calibrates it to 'correct' settings using a DVD/blueray test disk?
So why dont TV's come ready set up ?
I get each one is different, but there should be a better average surely ?
I also understand they need to be set up for the shop, so a simple 'shop mode' could help?
Its not important, just wondered why it was....
So why dont TV's come ready set up ?
I get each one is different, but there should be a better average surely ?
I also understand they need to be set up for the shop, so a simple 'shop mode' could help?
Its not important, just wondered why it was....
Simply put it's because no TV is the same as the next one off the line. Variations in panel, electronics and backlight (if appropriate) mean that there will be differences between the TVs even if they averaged the settings as you suggest.
As an example we have a 32" Sony LCD in the kitchen which I calibrated (with a decent sensor, etc that I bought mainly for my projector as it cost more than the TV
). Anyway, there was a fault with the TV and they replaced the panel. When I checked the calibration, it was completely off even with the same settings as previously.
Best you can do is read the reviews to find out which is the closest mode to accurate out of the box (often something like 'Warm' rather than the misleading 'Neutral/Natural' colour temp and set the basics (contrast, brightness and sharpness) using something like the (free) AVS HD709 test disc.
Think yourself lucky with a TV as us projector owners can calibrate to perfection, only to find after another 100 hours the red level of the lamp has dropped which then effects the calibration. I've upgraded my calibration set up for a version that does automatic calibration in combination with a Lumagen video processor: Now it takes one button press and a 40 minute wait while it runs which I don't even need to stay in the room for, verses 4-5 hours of manual adjustment for a poorer result than I now achieve, such is progress.
As an example we have a 32" Sony LCD in the kitchen which I calibrated (with a decent sensor, etc that I bought mainly for my projector as it cost more than the TV
). Anyway, there was a fault with the TV and they replaced the panel. When I checked the calibration, it was completely off even with the same settings as previously.Best you can do is read the reviews to find out which is the closest mode to accurate out of the box (often something like 'Warm' rather than the misleading 'Neutral/Natural' colour temp and set the basics (contrast, brightness and sharpness) using something like the (free) AVS HD709 test disc.
Think yourself lucky with a TV as us projector owners can calibrate to perfection, only to find after another 100 hours the red level of the lamp has dropped which then effects the calibration. I've upgraded my calibration set up for a version that does automatic calibration in combination with a Lumagen video processor: Now it takes one button press and a 40 minute wait while it runs which I don't even need to stay in the room for, verses 4-5 hours of manual adjustment for a poorer result than I now achieve, such is progress.
OldSkoolRS said:
Best you can do is read the reviews to find out which is the closest mode to accurate out of the box (often something like 'Warm' rather than the misleading 'Neutral/Natural' colour temp and set the basics (contrast, brightness and sharpness) using something like the (free) AVS HD709 test disc.
But this is what i mean, why doesnt the TV come at this setting? if averagely its better than out of the box?Or even for luddites like me a simple, 'sunny' 'average' and 'dark' preset room condition settings?
Cant help but think from what i read on the forums the 'out of the box' set ups could better or even supply an easy to use built in calibrator as many people wont go to the lengths of buying a DVD to set the TV up.
Not sure about other makes, but the Sony TV I was talking about has a 'Theatre' mode which out of the box is pretty accurate and turns off most of the crap 'advanced menu' stuff that usually makes the picture worse (but gives them something to put in the brochure to impress the impressionable ).
Pretty sure Panasonic would have something similar, but part of the problem is that TV manufacturers seem obsessed with making their TVs look brighter and more garish than the one next to it in a shop environment. In order to ensure this they make the TV start out in this 'vivid' mode just incase it ends up as a display TV. The reason for this is that Joe Public will chose the brighter TV every time: Stand around in any TV shop and listen out for the 'ooh that one has much brighter colours' and similar comments. Then they take it home and watch in 'vivid' mode or similar with neon grass and eveyone looking like Dale Winton.
).Pretty sure Panasonic would have something similar, but part of the problem is that TV manufacturers seem obsessed with making their TVs look brighter and more garish than the one next to it in a shop environment. In order to ensure this they make the TV start out in this 'vivid' mode just incase it ends up as a display TV. The reason for this is that Joe Public will chose the brighter TV every time: Stand around in any TV shop and listen out for the 'ooh that one has much brighter colours' and similar comments. Then they take it home and watch in 'vivid' mode or similar with neon grass and eveyone looking like Dale Winton.
Good calibration does not necessarily mean it looks the best - a "bright" and "vibrant" image looks better to most people at a glance, irrespective of the quality of the colours.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't calibrate your TV - just that if your a manufacturer your customer to be as impressed as possible with your TV (either when they see it in a shop, or when they unbox it at home).
That doesn't mean you shouldn't calibrate your TV - just that if your a manufacturer your customer to be as impressed as possible with your TV (either when they see it in a shop, or when they unbox it at home).
Pints said:
Apparently so. Where would I procure such a DVD? Is there an online equivalent? (My PC is connected to my TV).
To be honest, a picture is personal so have it on whatever settings you like. Yes, calibrated will be 'better' as in more correct but you really don't need to go mad. My in laws recently purchased a new TV, nothing special but simply demonstrating backlight and brightness switched down from 100% and they were really happy.
AV forums do a calibration disc I believe , plus THX do an iApp if that's your thing. I still have a Video Essentials laserdisc!
While no 2 TVs are identical, and neither are the viewing rooms, TVs could/should come out of the box set up better IMO.
Even high end TVs are coming out of the box with "overscan" enabled - if you don't know what this is, it basically means the picture is stretched to about 105% and then the extra 5% is trimmed from sides of the picture. So you are missing out on some of the original source and the picture is being artificially resized as well.
Plasmas seem to be best for basic accuracy out of the box, the LCD screens seem to be overly bright and over-contrasted.
Even high end TVs are coming out of the box with "overscan" enabled - if you don't know what this is, it basically means the picture is stretched to about 105% and then the extra 5% is trimmed from sides of the picture. So you are missing out on some of the original source and the picture is being artificially resized as well.
Plasmas seem to be best for basic accuracy out of the box, the LCD screens seem to be overly bright and over-contrasted.
PhilboSE said:
Even high end TVs are coming out of the box with "overscan" enabled - if you don't know what this is, it basically means the picture is stretched to about 105% and then the extra 5% is trimmed from sides of the picture. So you are missing out on some of the original source and the picture is being artificially resized as well.
Indeed, but this is because a lot of source material doesn't use the overscan area for presenting the picture, hence not showing the extra bits is a 'safe' way of not spoiling the basic result for those who just want to plug everything in and aren't going to read the manual/ internet forums.OldSkoolRS has already hit the nail on the head - at best most consumers don't give a sh*t or will be convinced by whatever looks 'best' in the shop, at worst they want to brag about all the features their TV has or how bright/ (unnaturally) sharp it is... Those of us caring/ geeky enough to want things 'right' have to sort it out for ourselves!
Ultuous said:
Indeed, but this is because a lot of source material doesn't use the overscan area for presenting the picture
Pretty much limited to SD TV sources though. And DVB seems to be much better at this than the old analogue.So the average punter then sticks a DVD in their player, something in the chain (either the player or an A/V receiver) then upscales to 1080p doing it's best to optimise the picture, before the screen decides to upscale this again and throw away 10% of the information.
Overscan is not the solution - it's a sledgehammer. Just do some post processing on the bad SD sources that need it, instead of all that pointless extra frame generation and motion smoothing they do.
PhilboSE said:
Overscan is not the solution - it's a sledgehammer. Just do some post processing on the bad SD sources that need it, instead of all that pointless extra frame generation and motion smoothing they do.
Very good point - I hadn't thought of making the post-processing a little more 'intelligent' ... Dunno how other sets fare, but on my 4 year old Panasonic, it is a PITA flicking the overscan off/ on depending on source to see it at it's best, particularly given that the option is buried relatively deeply in the settings!The overscan in the Sony TV in our kitchen allows one overscan setting for SD broadcasts and another (1:1 obviously) for HD broadcasts from it's internal tuner. Once set up it's effectively automatic. Shame that the default setting was wrong for SD and it made it even softer than it needed to be.
I like to use a separate video processor on my main set up, though it was mainly bought for use with my projector it would be a waste not to use it with the TV too. It puts the processing in TVs to shame (including Kuros & high end Panasonics) especially the upscaling of SD sources: If it's good enough to watch DVDs on a 10' screen then it makes them more than acceptable on a 40" TV.
I like to use a separate video processor on my main set up, though it was mainly bought for use with my projector it would be a waste not to use it with the TV too. It puts the processing in TVs to shame (including Kuros & high end Panasonics) especially the upscaling of SD sources: If it's good enough to watch DVDs on a 10' screen then it makes them more than acceptable on a 40" TV.
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