Did anyone go Brands on March 13th?
Discussion
I was wondering if anyone went to the trackday at Brands on the 13th. I was there and very disappointed with the day in general. I felt that the day was badly run, the briefings rubbish, it overly busy on track and left me no desire to go back there again with that event organisation.
I found that the organisers were patronising and inconsistent. I was told to have my window fully wound up, have my side lights on and that my fixed (bolted into the middle of the dashboard) i-phone holder was dangerous. The question is why can I not have my window 3 inches down? For pity sake there were about 10 Caterfields there with no roofs on!
Did anyone find that no one would move over when faster cars caught them up with the blue flags waving, did anyone find this dangerous at times? I had two near trip ups with multiple cars catching up with other drivers doing 50mph down the start finish straight. There were just too many cars on track at the same time!
Then was the fact that they let us continue on track during a 15 mins snow storm, I got black flagged and got threatened to leave after a slow 180 degree spin after hitting a big puddle near Surtess.
Do the organisers not see us as customers anymore? I do about 6-10 trackdays every year and have never felt so annoyed with a day as I did then.
Moan over, I just wanted to know if I was the only one to feel the same....
I found that the organisers were patronising and inconsistent. I was told to have my window fully wound up, have my side lights on and that my fixed (bolted into the middle of the dashboard) i-phone holder was dangerous. The question is why can I not have my window 3 inches down? For pity sake there were about 10 Caterfields there with no roofs on!
Did anyone find that no one would move over when faster cars caught them up with the blue flags waving, did anyone find this dangerous at times? I had two near trip ups with multiple cars catching up with other drivers doing 50mph down the start finish straight. There were just too many cars on track at the same time!
Then was the fact that they let us continue on track during a 15 mins snow storm, I got black flagged and got threatened to leave after a slow 180 degree spin after hitting a big puddle near Surtess.
Do the organisers not see us as customers anymore? I do about 6-10 trackdays every year and have never felt so annoyed with a day as I did then.
Moan over, I just wanted to know if I was the only one to feel the same....
Yes; I was there and although I don't agree with everything you say (or experience some of the problems you had) I did feel the standard of marshalling was particularly bad.
For example, I got overtaken a number of times when I had slowed down because of yellow lights/flags. Many drivers seemed totally unaware we were under 'yellow' and yet they seemed to get away with it. However, far worse was the number of times I got passed under a red light/flag situation.
In my opinion that is the fault of Brands Hatch rather than Javelin and, yes, maybe I should have had a word with Colin (the Javelin boss) about it.
I was very surprised they didn't black flag it when the snow started !!!
For example, I got overtaken a number of times when I had slowed down because of yellow lights/flags. Many drivers seemed totally unaware we were under 'yellow' and yet they seemed to get away with it. However, far worse was the number of times I got passed under a red light/flag situation.
In my opinion that is the fault of Brands Hatch rather than Javelin and, yes, maybe I should have had a word with Colin (the Javelin boss) about it.
I was very surprised they didn't black flag it when the snow started !!!
CycleSi said:
How can people attend the drivers briefing and still not know what the various flags mean?
It almost defies belief !!!
I wasn't there but this staggering and puts me off wanting to do Brands again which is a pity because I loved it last time on the club circuit and had earmarked the GP circuit as a must do this year. Do you blame the circuit or. He organising team? It almost defies belief !!!
Probably a bit of both I guess.
The B.H. marshals could have done a better (more disciplined) job and, although I thought the drivers briefing was ok, possibly Javelin could have been a bit stricter with some of the poor & dangerous driving.
Overall, a typical track day in my experience !!!
The B.H. marshals could have done a better (more disciplined) job and, although I thought the drivers briefing was ok, possibly Javelin could have been a bit stricter with some of the poor & dangerous driving.
Overall, a typical track day in my experience !!!
I assume the marshalls are organised by the circuit and not the organiser? I've done a Javelin day at Cadwell and the marshalls were very good, briefing very good, and general standard of everything pretty good. But then that's perhaps to be expected by marshalls knowing Cadwell, sorted/trained by Cadwell. I would hope Brands would do the same, but maybe they were just lacking when it came to bo11ocking those breaking the rules, and being a bit more safety concious?
I've just realised I haven't mentioned the worst behaviour was being twice overtaken on the inside (on the right) when a mate was driving even though they were quite slow (cautious) as it was their first ever track day.
That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
CycleSi said:
I've just realised I haven't mentioned the worst behaviour was being twice overtaken on the inside (on the right) when a mate was driving even though they were quite slow (cautious) as it was their first ever track day.
That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
What was their response when you reported it?That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
I agree that some people should have had a talking to, too many cars undertaking into the braking zones and heros in minis overtaking on the outside of paddockhill bend is a huge no no!
It is a real shame, I feel the actual circuit itself was the issue rather than the organisers, they need to limit the amount of cars on track at the same time a bit more. I will not do another Brands Indy again, but I will give Javelin another go though.
It is a real shame, I feel the actual circuit itself was the issue rather than the organisers, they need to limit the amount of cars on track at the same time a bit more. I will not do another Brands Indy again, but I will give Javelin another go though.
scarebus said:
I will not do another Brands Indy again, but I will give Javelin another go though.
Who do you think takes the bookings and limits the number of bookings taken? Last time we were at Brands Indy we had 28 cars all day IIRC. The ultimate circuit limit is set by the MSA and the venue, but the number of cars booked on the day (and the number of cars permitted on track) is set by the TDO. In the absense of instruction to the contrary, the circuit will allow the maximum number of cars permitted on track.Jonny
BaT
scarebus said:
I agree that some people should have had a talking to, too many cars undertaking into the braking zones and heros in minis overtaking on the outside of paddockhill bend is a huge no no!
It is a real shame, I feel the actual circuit itself was the issue rather than the organisers, they need to limit the amount of cars on track at the same time a bit more. I will not do another Brands Indy again, but I will give Javelin another go though.
So, it wasn't just me who thought the Mini's were the main culprits then?It is a real shame, I feel the actual circuit itself was the issue rather than the organisers, they need to limit the amount of cars on track at the same time a bit more. I will not do another Brands Indy again, but I will give Javelin another go though.
CycleSi said:
I've just realised I haven't mentioned the worst behaviour was being twice overtaken on the inside (on the right) when a mate was driving even though they were quite slow (cautious) as it was their first ever track day.
That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
Someone mention undertaking Si, That kind of driving is unforgiveable and yet neither the marshals or Javelin did anything about it.
Need to learn 'em Swedish style
D
jonnyleroux said:
Who do you think takes the bookings and limits the number of bookings taken? Last time we were at Brands Indy we had 28 cars all day IIRC. The ultimate circuit limit is set by the MSA and the venue, but the number of cars booked on the day (and the number of cars permitted on track) is set by the TDO. In the absense of instruction to the contrary, the circuit will allow the maximum number of cars permitted on track.
Jonny
BaT
There were about 70+ booked on the day, and it felt like every one was on track at the same time.... I know this was not the case though.Jonny
BaT
The MSA have the limit on the number of cars permitted at 32 for Brands Indy. That would be a *very* busy 1.2 mile stretch of tarmac if all of the cars weren't of similar spec. Compare this to the 38 starters permitted at Donington Park on the 2.5 mile GP circuit for example and you're seeing roughly half as many cars per mile.
In their defence, MSV even recommend in their own terms of circuit hire that this limit be dropped for car track days because once you add the speed differentials of mixed car types, 32 cars is pretty much the M25.
It's also worth remembering that most/all of the main TDO's pay the same to rent the circuits and most/all of them work to very similar profit margins. Therefore if one track day is 50% cheaper than another track day, it's safe to assume there will be twice the number of cars present on the day - all things being equal and assuming of course that the TDO isn't taking a massive bath on the event.
Jonny
BaT
In their defence, MSV even recommend in their own terms of circuit hire that this limit be dropped for car track days because once you add the speed differentials of mixed car types, 32 cars is pretty much the M25.
It's also worth remembering that most/all of the main TDO's pay the same to rent the circuits and most/all of them work to very similar profit margins. Therefore if one track day is 50% cheaper than another track day, it's safe to assume there will be twice the number of cars present on the day - all things being equal and assuming of course that the TDO isn't taking a massive bath on the event.
Jonny
BaT
I was there and thought that overall it was very good. A few too many cars at times sure and the morning felt like a bloody karting day with the number of red flags but that's an issue with the poor driving standards rather than the events fault.
General etiquette seemed quite good too, despite being in a Golf TDi I found everyone was moving over fine except for 1 person, which is pretty compared to any other trackday I have attended.
Did anyone get any pics/vids of the day?
General etiquette seemed quite good too, despite being in a Golf TDi I found everyone was moving over fine except for 1 person, which is pretty compared to any other trackday I have attended.
Did anyone get any pics/vids of the day?
jonnyleroux said:
The MSA have the limit on the number of cars permitted at 32 for Brands Indy. That would be a *very* busy 1.2 mile stretch of tarmac if all of the cars weren't of similar spec. Compare this to the 38 starters permitted at Donington Park on the 2.5 mile GP circuit for example and you're seeing roughly half as many cars per mile.
In their defence, MSV even recommend in their own terms of circuit hire that this limit be dropped for car track days because once you add the speed differentials of mixed car types, 32 cars is pretty much the M25.
It's also worth remembering that most/all of the main TDO's pay the same to rent the circuits and most/all of them work to very similar profit margins. Therefore if one track day is 50% cheaper than another track day, it's safe to assume there will be twice the number of cars present on the day - all things being equal and assuming of course that the TDO isn't taking a massive bath on the event.
Jonny
BaT
I wasn't there on this day but, BH Indy is a very short curcuit as Jonny says and almost all the TDs I have done there have almost all have been overcrowded. I would not do another day on the Indy unless it was limited to low numbers.In their defence, MSV even recommend in their own terms of circuit hire that this limit be dropped for car track days because once you add the speed differentials of mixed car types, 32 cars is pretty much the M25.
It's also worth remembering that most/all of the main TDO's pay the same to rent the circuits and most/all of them work to very similar profit margins. Therefore if one track day is 50% cheaper than another track day, it's safe to assume there will be twice the number of cars present on the day - all things being equal and assuming of course that the TDO isn't taking a massive bath on the event.
Jonny
BaT
A pity really as I quite like it as a circuit.
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