Electric Cars slowly becoming an option?
Discussion
I'm not trolling here but I was reading, today, about the new Renault Zoe as there was an interesting article on 'The Register'. At £14k after the government subsidy it looks to be a decent option for inner city driving.
My Mrs is after a new car, she's pretty much said "I'll either get a hot-hatch or something economical", so one extreme to the other. She does around 8 miles a day at the moment with trips across the city on occasion. She very rarely leaves the city boundary so doesn't need to a big range. The Twizy that Harris reviewed looked kind of interesting but doesn't offer much in the way of weather protection. Ideal for Ibiza but not for Bristol, in Winter.
I'm wondering what the depreciation is going to be like on one of these, with the government subsidy and battery rental meaning no battery related surprise expenses.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to the dark side of hippy-motoring, it's about horses for courses and electric vehicles are now reasonably priced vs buying a Mini/Fiat 500 for a similar price.
My Mrs is after a new car, she's pretty much said "I'll either get a hot-hatch or something economical", so one extreme to the other. She does around 8 miles a day at the moment with trips across the city on occasion. She very rarely leaves the city boundary so doesn't need to a big range. The Twizy that Harris reviewed looked kind of interesting but doesn't offer much in the way of weather protection. Ideal for Ibiza but not for Bristol, in Winter.
I'm wondering what the depreciation is going to be like on one of these, with the government subsidy and battery rental meaning no battery related surprise expenses.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to the dark side of hippy-motoring, it's about horses for courses and electric vehicles are now reasonably priced vs buying a Mini/Fiat 500 for a similar price.
The fundamental question you need to ask yourself is this:
How are you going to recharge the battery if you run it flat and are nowhere near a charge point?
But a jerry-can of 'leccy from the nearest BP? No. Fine if you're diligent about charging and know you can top up at both ends - but beyond that, you're constantly playing russian roulette with the charge level gauge.
Pure EVs have a limited market, use and appeal. Range extenders and Hybrids offer far more flexibility.
Better still, buy a sodding great V8 and get on with it
How are you going to recharge the battery if you run it flat and are nowhere near a charge point?
But a jerry-can of 'leccy from the nearest BP? No. Fine if you're diligent about charging and know you can top up at both ends - but beyond that, you're constantly playing russian roulette with the charge level gauge.
Pure EVs have a limited market, use and appeal. Range extenders and Hybrids offer far more flexibility.
Better still, buy a sodding great V8 and get on with it
Stig said:
The fundamental question you need to ask yourself is this:
How are you going to recharge the battery if you run it flat and are nowhere near a charge point?
But a jerry-can of 'leccy from the nearest BP? No. Fine if you're diligent about charging and know you can top up at both ends - but beyond that, you're constantly playing russian roulette with the charge level gauge.
Pure EVs have a limited market, use and appeal. Range extenders and Hybrids offer far more flexibility.
Better still, buy a sodding great V8 and get on with it
When was the last time you ran out of petrol and had to use a jerry can?How are you going to recharge the battery if you run it flat and are nowhere near a charge point?
But a jerry-can of 'leccy from the nearest BP? No. Fine if you're diligent about charging and know you can top up at both ends - but beyond that, you're constantly playing russian roulette with the charge level gauge.
Pure EVs have a limited market, use and appeal. Range extenders and Hybrids offer far more flexibility.
Better still, buy a sodding great V8 and get on with it
I appreciate that ranges are longer and fuel stops more plentiful for a petrol car, but the same principal of planning ahead means you're no more likely to run out of juice in an electric car - because it's down to your planning skills which don't change.
Another counter point to consider is the frequency of "filling up". You might run your car to the brim, then empty it to 1/4 then brim it. Or you might like to only put in £5 at a time. The neat thing with an electric is that you plug it in each night, so EVERY morning it's "full to the brim" again. I bet you don't brim your petrol car each night? So I think the fact that each time you leave home you have a "full tank" will vastly reduce the chance that you'll find yourself caught out by a flat battery.
Exactly. With a range of between 60 (worst case) and 120 miles (highly optimistic) she'd only need to charge it once a week. If she did that then, yes, she'd run the risk of getting caught out and walking to the BP garage for a jerrycan full of duracells. But as mrmr96 said, when was the last time you ran out of petrol? The last time I did was when I was a young lad feeding my car £5 at a time and had an inaccurate fuel gauge.
More likely is that she'd do 8 miles in the day, come home and plug it in. Occasionally she'll go around town and this'll then become 30 miles, absolute maximum, she'll then recharge it. She'd rarely every go below half charge.
More likely is that she'd do 8 miles in the day, come home and plug it in. Occasionally she'll go around town and this'll then become 30 miles, absolute maximum, she'll then recharge it. She'd rarely every go below half charge.
mrmr96 said:
When was the last time you ran out of petrol and had to use a jerry can?
I appreciate that ranges are longer and fuel stops more plentiful for a petrol car, but the same principal of planning ahead means you're no more likely to run out of juice in an electric car - because it's down to your planning skills which don't change.
Another counter point to consider is the frequency of "filling up". You might run your car to the brim, then empty it to 1/4 then brim it. Or you might like to only put in £5 at a time. The neat thing with an electric is that you plug it in each night, so EVERY morning it's "full to the brim" again. I bet you don't brim your petrol car each night? So I think the fact that each time you leave home you have a "full tank" will vastly reduce the chance that you'll find yourself caught out by a flat battery.
Errr... no. Because your supposition is based on your journey being entirely consistent. Your planning skills may not change - but the journey will.I appreciate that ranges are longer and fuel stops more plentiful for a petrol car, but the same principal of planning ahead means you're no more likely to run out of juice in an electric car - because it's down to your planning skills which don't change.
Another counter point to consider is the frequency of "filling up". You might run your car to the brim, then empty it to 1/4 then brim it. Or you might like to only put in £5 at a time. The neat thing with an electric is that you plug it in each night, so EVERY morning it's "full to the brim" again. I bet you don't brim your petrol car each night? So I think the fact that each time you leave home you have a "full tank" will vastly reduce the chance that you'll find yourself caught out by a flat battery.
For example: you have a 10 mile commute in an EV (20 mile round trip), roads reasonable, weather fair - consumption calculable. Compared with, 10 mile commute in an EV, hammering with rain (wipers), heavy traffic (stop start), at night (lights on), freezing cold (heater) - totally different battery consumption requirements.
Yes, you can plan ahead, but you can't account for unpredictable variables of the journey you're making. My point is, with a combustion engine you have the option to stop and top-up. This is a far less practical proposition in an EV - not to mention the time it takes to do so. Yes, you can argue that 'it's just because the infrastructure is there to support fossil fuel burning vehicles' - and to an extent, you'd be right. But until they can make an EV that takes minutes to fill and can be done from an accessible point every few miles or so - IC powered cars will dominate.
I see enough G-Wiz's dead by the side of the road in London to know my view is credible.
Obviously my view is based on broader usage of EVs rather than short, inner city journeys where I agree, they are a good solution. But don't be surprised if you get the odd 'bu99er, I forgot to plug it in and now I can't get to work' moment
Edited by Stig on Friday 22 March 13:33
How many people actually do the full range of an electric car without the ability to charge?
In a previous job I worked 30 miles from home. As long as there was a charging point at work, that'd be fine.
These days I commute by train. The journey to the station is much shorter, so wouldn't even need to charge during the day.
Sure, there are times when you DO longer journeys - but not many people have a single car in the household these days.
In a previous job I worked 30 miles from home. As long as there was a charging point at work, that'd be fine.
These days I commute by train. The journey to the station is much shorter, so wouldn't even need to charge during the day.
Sure, there are times when you DO longer journeys - but not many people have a single car in the household these days.
The Boosh said:
They are indeed starting to make great sense. I've driven a ZOE myself and they're fantastic. The instant torque makes it feel very quick, surprisingly. Other than the power delivery it feels just like a normal car.
Where did you manage to have a drive in one? I asked Renault about the Zoe and they said that it'll be out in May with deliveries in Summer.I bought an electric 'car' a couple of years ago as an experiment. It gets used for trips in and out of town, popping to the pub etc and for that it's great. One thing I've noticed is that the ranges claimed are mainly b
ks. Despite it having new Lithium batteries, the range drops far faster than miles travelled. Extended periods on full throttle drain the batteries, accelerating drains the batteries,going uphill really drains the batteries, as do lights, wipers, heating etc. I suspect the range tests record part throttle, no ancillaries, on a flat surface.
You DO need to get into the habit of charging it after each use
ks. Despite it having new Lithium batteries, the range drops far faster than miles travelled. Extended periods on full throttle drain the batteries, accelerating drains the batteries,going uphill really drains the batteries, as do lights, wipers, heating etc. I suspect the range tests record part throttle, no ancillaries, on a flat surface. You DO need to get into the habit of charging it after each use
I think its a great idea if you live, work and commute in a city. a few miles here and there and charge it up over night etc.
There is no infrastructure of the rest of the country though. People who have to commute into work etc. It just wouldn't work.
Yes, you could charge over night and charge at work but the range isn't like a tank of petrol. It's not a physical thing that you can measure. Like a phone or a laptop battery. One minute the OS is telling you you have 10 mins of use left. The next, its shutting down on you. Not great if your on a b-road in the middle of nowhere. Also not great if your in a city street!...
Yes, this could potentially be avoided with planning ahead but life doesnt work like that unfortunately.
A car is about freedom. Being able to go where you like, when you like. An electric car can't do that. People don't generally live these secluded lives in one area. I have family all over the UK. How would I visit them in the car? You could say, use public transport or buy a second, petrol/diesel car but then what's the point in buying the leccy one in the first place? Running 2 cars would defeat the point of running an electric car.
Great for some, st for the majority.
There is no infrastructure of the rest of the country though. People who have to commute into work etc. It just wouldn't work.
Yes, you could charge over night and charge at work but the range isn't like a tank of petrol. It's not a physical thing that you can measure. Like a phone or a laptop battery. One minute the OS is telling you you have 10 mins of use left. The next, its shutting down on you. Not great if your on a b-road in the middle of nowhere. Also not great if your in a city street!...
Yes, this could potentially be avoided with planning ahead but life doesnt work like that unfortunately.
A car is about freedom. Being able to go where you like, when you like. An electric car can't do that. People don't generally live these secluded lives in one area. I have family all over the UK. How would I visit them in the car? You could say, use public transport or buy a second, petrol/diesel car but then what's the point in buying the leccy one in the first place? Running 2 cars would defeat the point of running an electric car.
Great for some, s
t for the majority.Edited by MysteryLemon on Friday 22 March 13:50
456mgt said:
I bought an electric 'car' a couple of years ago as an experiment. It gets used for trips in and out of town, popping to the pub etc and for that it's great. One thing I've noticed is that the ranges claimed are mainly bks. Despite it having new Lithium batteries, the range drops far faster than miles travelled. Extended periods on full throttle drain the batteries, accelerating drains the batteries,going uphill really drains the batteries, as do lights, wipers, heating etc. I suspect the range tests record part throttle, no ancillaries, on a flat surface.
You DO need to get into the habit of charging it after each use
Just looked. ks. Despite it having new Lithium batteries, the range drops far faster than miles travelled. Extended periods on full throttle drain the batteries, accelerating drains the batteries,going uphill really drains the batteries, as do lights, wipers, heating etc. I suspect the range tests record part throttle, no ancillaries, on a flat surface. You DO need to get into the habit of charging it after each use
Now I know why you put 'car' in quotes.
Excellent.
McWigglebum4th said:
But what would happen if your wife left the house then suddenly discovered she has been teleported to SCOTLAND
you'd be screwed
Would I? I'd have peace and quiet for <does quick calculation>you'd be screwed
380 miles to Bristol from Glasgow
80 mile (pessimistic range of a Zoe) with very few DC charging points along the way. So that's 4.75 full charges to get her home, one of those charges might be a DC charging point taking 30mins to charge. The other 3.75 are AC 'home' type sockets and therefore take 9 hours each. I'll assume that she has the .75 in the 'tank' already
6 hours to do the journey
+ 30 mins for one DC charge
+ 3x 9 hours charges for AC charging
= 33.5 hours in total
That's a lot of peace and quiet
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