Why's the Zonda R so slow???
Discussion
So I was just browsing Youtube and found a video called "Fastest Nurburgring Lap Ever - Pagani Zonda R" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It8mfxE8BR0
where the Zonda R laps the ring in 6:47:50. Then I remembered that a Porsche did it pretty quickly and had quick look and found "Fastest ever recorded lap on the Nordschleife: 6:37 Minutes Porsche 956" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0z9TbFW6tU. Hmmm Porsche was faster.
Now obviously the Zonda R is fast but I suppose my question is how come the Zonda isn't much, much faster??? Apart from the fact that the Zonda has had nearly 30 years advancement in technology it also has the biggest factor that is always mentioned against old cars; namely the improvement in tyre technology.
The Zonda R wasn't made for any race series and isn't road legal so given 30 years more knowledge and specially made tyres it still couldn't beat a car from 1983. Any ideas why??
ETA:muppet formatting
where the Zonda R laps the ring in 6:47:50. Then I remembered that a Porsche did it pretty quickly and had quick look and found "Fastest ever recorded lap on the Nordschleife: 6:37 Minutes Porsche 956" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0z9TbFW6tU. Hmmm Porsche was faster.
Now obviously the Zonda R is fast but I suppose my question is how come the Zonda isn't much, much faster??? Apart from the fact that the Zonda has had nearly 30 years advancement in technology it also has the biggest factor that is always mentioned against old cars; namely the improvement in tyre technology.
The Zonda R wasn't made for any race series and isn't road legal so given 30 years more knowledge and specially made tyres it still couldn't beat a car from 1983. Any ideas why??
ETA:muppet formatting
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 22 March 17:10
DJRC said:
One is presuming you mean Steffan Bellof and a Porsche 956?
In which case the answer is...cos it was Steffan Bellof driving a 956!
Yeah fine....racing god..blah blah blah.In which case the answer is...cos it was Steffan Bellof driving a 956!
But wheel out Fangio in his old Ferrari against something from 30 years post and the results would be dramatic. Are you saying that the 956 was the pinnacle of car progress and it will never be touched?
Porsche 956 record was 6.11 not 6.37. According to Evo anyway:
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/260245/paga...
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/260245/paga...
Edited by JoeMk1 on Friday 22 March 17:29
The Porsche 956 is a pure racing car, with impossibly high levels of power, grip and noise. The Zonda's a converted road car.
It's a bit like asking why me on my race-prepped Fireblade isn't as fast round a circuit as Freddie Spencer on his NSR500. Comparing apples and alligators, I'm afraid.
It's a bit like asking why me on my race-prepped Fireblade isn't as fast round a circuit as Freddie Spencer on his NSR500. Comparing apples and alligators, I'm afraid.
longblackcoat said:
The Porsche 956 is a pure racing car, with impossibly high levels of power, grip and noise. The Zonda's a converted road car.
Not really. 956 quoted as 620bhp and 800kg so 775bhp/tonne and Zonda R as 740 to 800bhp with 100kg so 740-800bhp/tonne. 30 year advancement with aero and tyres means that the grip should be at least equal if not better. Noise is a personal thing but didn't know it made you go faster 
Edited by R11ysf on Friday 22 March 17:39
The answer is actually very simple. The Zonda R was never designed as a race car, it is just a track day car. As others have said it does not comply with any race car regulations. Pagani designed it at the request of a Zonda owner who wanted a more focused Zonda he could drive on the track. Pagani agreed as long as he could find at least five others to buy one to make the project worth while.
Anyway this project played into Pagani's hands because it allowed them to develop the chassis and suspension which would eventually end up under the Huayra. If fact the under pinning’s of the Zonda R are exactly the same as the Huayra apart form the road car having road orientated bushings. The Zonda R would be a comfortable road car if it were road legal.
As for its speed, it is very fast considering the compromises that have been built into it to make it easy to drive by the average person. Any car that can go sub 7 seconds at the ring is seriously quick
Anyway this project played into Pagani's hands because it allowed them to develop the chassis and suspension which would eventually end up under the Huayra. If fact the under pinning’s of the Zonda R are exactly the same as the Huayra apart form the road car having road orientated bushings. The Zonda R would be a comfortable road car if it were road legal.
As for its speed, it is very fast considering the compromises that have been built into it to make it easy to drive by the average person. Any car that can go sub 7 seconds at the ring is seriously quick
I bet the porsche is lighter
I bet it has more downforce (ground effect is quite amazing in what it can do) and has a lower Cd to boot. I am not sure the Zonda is as aerodynamic at all.
Hard to say about the tyres though. Im guessing the porsche will have had some pretty soft slicks and are steam roller grade at the back so he'll have plenty of grip for one lap
Is the porsche a turbo? if it is it might be down on power, but I bet it is up on torque lower down in the RPM range.
All these things will mean it can corner harder, brake later, accelerate faster... even if it is not going to win in a straight line, it'll all add up (147 odd corners here remember, if you are a few tenths faster on each, thats a lot in the end and I bet the ground effects keep it sucked flat even in the bumpiest parts of the circuit).
I bet it has more downforce (ground effect is quite amazing in what it can do) and has a lower Cd to boot. I am not sure the Zonda is as aerodynamic at all.
Hard to say about the tyres though. Im guessing the porsche will have had some pretty soft slicks and are steam roller grade at the back so he'll have plenty of grip for one lap
Is the porsche a turbo? if it is it might be down on power, but I bet it is up on torque lower down in the RPM range.
All these things will mean it can corner harder, brake later, accelerate faster... even if it is not going to win in a straight line, it'll all add up (147 odd corners here remember, if you are a few tenths faster on each, thats a lot in the end and I bet the ground effects keep it sucked flat even in the bumpiest parts of the circuit).
Otispunkmeyer said:
I bet the porsche is lighter
I bet it has more downforce (ground effect is quite amazing in what it can do) and has a lower Cd to boot. I am not sure the Zonda is as aerodynamic at all.
Hard to say about the tyres though. Im guessing the porsche will have had some pretty soft slicks and are steam roller grade at the back so he'll have plenty of grip for one lap
Is the porsche a turbo? if it is it might be down on power, but I bet it is up on torque lower down in the RPM range.
All these things will mean it can corner harder, brake later, accelerate faster... even if it is not going to win in a straight line, it'll all add up (147 odd corners here remember, if you are a few tenths faster on each, thats a lot in the end and I bet the ground effects keep it sucked flat even in the bumpiest parts of the circuit).
This is probably the best answer. The Porsche is indeed a turbo, and with huge slicks though could likely wind the boost up and give it hell for a couple of laps before the tyres died, putting in incredible times. The Porsche was designed around aero, so you'd expect it to be massively grippy.I bet it has more downforce (ground effect is quite amazing in what it can do) and has a lower Cd to boot. I am not sure the Zonda is as aerodynamic at all.
Hard to say about the tyres though. Im guessing the porsche will have had some pretty soft slicks and are steam roller grade at the back so he'll have plenty of grip for one lap
Is the porsche a turbo? if it is it might be down on power, but I bet it is up on torque lower down in the RPM range.
All these things will mean it can corner harder, brake later, accelerate faster... even if it is not going to win in a straight line, it'll all add up (147 odd corners here remember, if you are a few tenths faster on each, thats a lot in the end and I bet the ground effects keep it sucked flat even in the bumpiest parts of the circuit).
The Zonda on the other hand, while not a race car, is no less hardcore. Those saying it's a converted road car are playing down how different it really is to Zonda road car. It was built with no restrictions or limitations, to be the fastest, more focused Zonda. The aero is probably not as effective as the Porsche, but thats a limitation of the Zonda shape.
Streetrod said:
The answer is actually very simple. The Zonda R was never designed as a race car, it is just a track day car. As others have said it does not comply with any race car regulations. Pagani designed it at the request of a Zonda owner who wanted a more focused Zonda he could drive on the track. Pagani agreed as long as he could find at least five others to buy one to make the project worth while.
Anyway this project played into Pagani's hands because it allowed them to develop the chassis and suspension which would eventually end up under the Huayra. If fact the under pinning’s of the Zonda R are exactly the same as the Huayra apart form the road car having road orientated bushings. The Zonda R would be a comfortable road car if it were road legal.
As for its speed, it is very fast considering the compromises that have been built into it to make it easy to drive by the average person. Any car that can go sub 7 seconds at the ring is seriously quick
Sub 7 secs? NippyAnyway this project played into Pagani's hands because it allowed them to develop the chassis and suspension which would eventually end up under the Huayra. If fact the under pinning’s of the Zonda R are exactly the same as the Huayra apart form the road car having road orientated bushings. The Zonda R would be a comfortable road car if it were road legal.
As for its speed, it is very fast considering the compromises that have been built into it to make it easy to drive by the average person. Any car that can go sub 7 seconds at the ring is seriously quick
I don't think the Zonda is as fast as people think it is or claim it to be.
Years ago Evo couldn't get anywhere near the quoted top speed and in Harry Metcalfe's end-of-term report after selling his car he said it basically stopped accelerating at 180mph. Don't get me wrong, 180mph is very fast, but it's not in the same league as even a Bentley Continental.
Years ago Evo couldn't get anywhere near the quoted top speed and in Harry Metcalfe's end-of-term report after selling his car he said it basically stopped accelerating at 180mph. Don't get me wrong, 180mph is very fast, but it's not in the same league as even a Bentley Continental.
Otis - thanks I guess that's the best answer I was looking for. Just the basic design around aero first rather than adding it to a Zonda. The Zonda R though was still an unrestricted mental project!
Ian974 said:
I'd say slicks on the Porsche would help too.
30 year newer slick technology on the Zonda though!!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff