Talk to me about De Rosa......specifically the Merak.
Discussion
I am considering chopping my Alu/Carbon Felt F75 in for a plastic bike to shed some weight and get something that will soak up some of the terrible road surface buzz that comes with riding on the incredibly shoddy roads in the South.
I like the geo of the Felt so have had my eye open for an F-series carbon frameset with the view to just swapping out the frame, but while idly browsing the web stumbled across an incredibly well priced, past season, De Rosa Merak with a few upgrades in a LBS.
I have always wanted a De Rosa, there is great heritage associated with the brand, and if they were good enough for Merckx then they are good enough for me! The Merak has some really rave reviews in the press, has a similarly aggressive geo to my Felt, and looks fantastic (in a kind of love it or hate it way).
While the press love it there seems very little 'real world' owners reviews on the web and I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a De Rosa, or has ridden one. Alternatively anyone who was going to buy one but changer their mind.
I am hoping to take a test ride this coming weekend assuming it does not sell during the week, but don't want to get my hopes up just in case the reality of the brand does not meet my childhood expectations.......
I like the geo of the Felt so have had my eye open for an F-series carbon frameset with the view to just swapping out the frame, but while idly browsing the web stumbled across an incredibly well priced, past season, De Rosa Merak with a few upgrades in a LBS.
I have always wanted a De Rosa, there is great heritage associated with the brand, and if they were good enough for Merckx then they are good enough for me! The Merak has some really rave reviews in the press, has a similarly aggressive geo to my Felt, and looks fantastic (in a kind of love it or hate it way).
While the press love it there seems very little 'real world' owners reviews on the web and I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a De Rosa, or has ridden one. Alternatively anyone who was going to buy one but changer their mind.
I am hoping to take a test ride this coming weekend assuming it does not sell during the week, but don't want to get my hopes up just in case the reality of the brand does not meet my childhood expectations.......
I love my 838 (if not so much the Campag groupset on it), but it's the only bike of that sort of price I've ever ridden, so not sure I can give a really valid comparison?
It weighs next to nothing, is pretty much buzz-free to ride at 120 PSI on 23 tyres, and even with 115kg of me on it seems extremely solid and non-flexy.
To get up the the Merak (at new prices, at least), you'd be paying as much again. I honestly can't begin to imagine what £2k would improve over and above my current bike, but I would assume it would have to be pretty jaw-dropping?
In the ideal world, you'll get to test it at the weekend then come back and tell us it's not much better than a Halfords special, so that the rest of us can resist the need to upgrade!
It weighs next to nothing, is pretty much buzz-free to ride at 120 PSI on 23 tyres, and even with 115kg of me on it seems extremely solid and non-flexy.
To get up the the Merak (at new prices, at least), you'd be paying as much again. I honestly can't begin to imagine what £2k would improve over and above my current bike, but I would assume it would have to be pretty jaw-dropping?
In the ideal world, you'll get to test it at the weekend then come back and tell us it's not much better than a Halfords special, so that the rest of us can resist the need to upgrade!
Ah, see the price thing is what is making it so compelling!
It is well over the budget I had in mind for a frame only, but is slightly under the price point for this seasons 838, and comes with the Carbon Athena groupo, Fulcrum 1 wheels which alone cost circa £600!
Tell me more about the 838, how does it ride? What is the quality of the frame like? What does it climb/descend like? What is it like after a couple of hours in the saddle?
What is it about the Campy groupset you don't like? (I have never ridden campag but am getting fed up with constantly having to adjust my 105 rear mech, I have Force on my other bike which is excellent).
Looking forward to finding out a bit more about De Rosa from someone who can give some first hand experience!
It is well over the budget I had in mind for a frame only, but is slightly under the price point for this seasons 838, and comes with the Carbon Athena groupo, Fulcrum 1 wheels which alone cost circa £600!
Tell me more about the 838, how does it ride? What is the quality of the frame like? What does it climb/descend like? What is it like after a couple of hours in the saddle?
What is it about the Campy groupset you don't like? (I have never ridden campag but am getting fed up with constantly having to adjust my 105 rear mech, I have Force on my other bike which is excellent).
Looking forward to finding out a bit more about De Rosa from someone who can give some first hand experience!
Edited by MadDad on Monday 25th March 09:56
okgo said:
The whole Ribble fiasco has put me right off that brand.
Tell me more?, is it another case of Ribble flogging De Rosa frames for less than half the price of the branded frame? I know Ribble (and a couple of others) sell Deda framesets with different stickers for about 1/2 the price of the branded frames, or was there something more sinister that happened?MadDad said:
okgo said:
The whole Ribble fiasco has put me right off that brand.
Tell me more?, is it another case of Ribble flogging De Rosa frames for less than half the price of the branded frame? I know Ribble (and a couple of others) sell Deda framesets with different stickers for about 1/2 the price of the branded frames, or was there something more sinister that happened?MadDad said:
Ah, see the price thing is what is making it so compelling!
It is well over the budget I had in mind for a frame only, but is slightly under the price point for this seasons 838, and comes with the Carbon Athena groupo, Fulcrum 1 wheels which alone cost circa £600!
Tell me more about the 838, how does it ride? What is the quality of the frame like? What does it climb/descend like? What is it like after a couple of hours in the saddle?
What is it about the Campy groupset you don't like? (I have never ridden campag but am getting fed up with constantly having to adjust my 105 rear mech, I have Force on my other bike which is excellent).
Looking forward to finding out a bit more about De Rosa from someone who can give some first hand experience!
It's really difficult to answer to be honest, as I've no benchmark to compare against! All I can say is I love riding it, and I reach my limits long, long before I feel as though the bike is imposing any on me, whether that be climbing, descending or duration.It is well over the budget I had in mind for a frame only, but is slightly under the price point for this seasons 838, and comes with the Carbon Athena groupo, Fulcrum 1 wheels which alone cost circa £600!
Tell me more about the 838, how does it ride? What is the quality of the frame like? What does it climb/descend like? What is it like after a couple of hours in the saddle?
What is it about the Campy groupset you don't like? (I have never ridden campag but am getting fed up with constantly having to adjust my 105 rear mech, I have Force on my other bike which is excellent).
Looking forward to finding out a bit more about De Rosa from someone who can give some first hand experience!
As for the groupset, it just seems to have been a constant nightmare to try and get it set up and then keep it set up. Jammed left shifter replaced under warranty, rear mech throwing the chain into the spokes for no apparent reason, front shifter chucking the chain off the small ring and taking out a chunk of lacquer, etc, etc...
Of course, as soon as you post something like that, lots of Campag-lovers will spring up to defend it and say it must've been the mechanic who set it up that got it wrong. Against that, the bike shop I got it from only sells high end kit, and was universally well reviewed when I posted up asking for recommendations, so I was left not really knowing which was the correct answer, but knowing that my 105 groupset (from circa 1999) has always just worked, no matter how much abuse I've given it.
Good to hear you like the Force groupset though, as that's what I've got on the way when my Boardman CX Pro eventually arrives!
Kermit power said:
It is indeed Ribble flogging the 838 frame cheaper.
No, it's both manufacturers buying frames made from the same mould in the the same far east factory. One has DeRosa paint and stickers added, the other has Ribble Stickers added. The only DeRosa frame that is handmade in Italy is the King 3 RS Custom as far as I know.
So what would be Ribble equivalent be to the Merak? (just curious)......
TBH the price tag on the bike is good enough for me to still consider it, as build wise I think it would probably come in close to, or under a Ribble bike with a similar spec.
As I originally said, it would be an opportunistic buy rather than a planned purchase and if it does not work out I will probably just stick with the plan of trying to find a carbon frame from the Felt F series and just swap the bits over.
TBH the price tag on the bike is good enough for me to still consider it, as build wise I think it would probably come in close to, or under a Ribble bike with a similar spec.
As I originally said, it would be an opportunistic buy rather than a planned purchase and if it does not work out I will probably just stick with the plan of trying to find a carbon frame from the Felt F series and just swap the bits over.
The great unknown is the manufacturing process, the mould has been established as the same used in the Ribble Stealth and the De Rosa R838, I've seen htem both up close at the same bike show and as far as outward appearances go, they are the same but no one seems to know, or be able to confirm, if the manufacturing process is the same, do both frames have the same carbon/resin content, the same thickness of chainstays etc etc....
Ribble use words like "High Modulous T800 Toray Carbon Fibre" in the description of the Stealth as do De Rosa, Toray appears to be a reputable Carbon Fibre Manuufcaturing Company in the Far East with links to Du Pont amongst others. Do more research and the "838" code is used on a lot of frames from the far east made by Xpace, so it could be an open source mould number (like pasta!)
You get people on various websites who believe that De Rosa frames are different, partly becuase they want them to be different having invested so much into the bike thus, they subscribe to the "same mould, different frame" theory. Others go with the open source frame design theory, some have Ribble stickers, others have De Rosa stickers...
When the legal case around "squoval" tubes kicked off between Canyon and Cervelo, it got resolved fairly publicly. I dont know much about IPR but I cant see how this situation can be anything other than both Ribble and De Rosa using an open source mould built to the same standards.
Ribble use words like "High Modulous T800 Toray Carbon Fibre" in the description of the Stealth as do De Rosa, Toray appears to be a reputable Carbon Fibre Manuufcaturing Company in the Far East with links to Du Pont amongst others. Do more research and the "838" code is used on a lot of frames from the far east made by Xpace, so it could be an open source mould number (like pasta!)
You get people on various websites who believe that De Rosa frames are different, partly becuase they want them to be different having invested so much into the bike thus, they subscribe to the "same mould, different frame" theory. Others go with the open source frame design theory, some have Ribble stickers, others have De Rosa stickers...
When the legal case around "squoval" tubes kicked off between Canyon and Cervelo, it got resolved fairly publicly. I dont know much about IPR but I cant see how this situation can be anything other than both Ribble and De Rosa using an open source mould built to the same standards.
MadDad said:
I have always wanted a De Rosa, there is great heritage associated with the brand, and if they were good enough for Merckx then they are good enough for me! The Merak has some really rave reviews in the press, has a similarly aggressive geo to my Felt, and looks fantastic (in a kind of love it or hate it way).
Check the finish on the frame very carefully. My wife's frame had a bit of lacquer missing when she got it, and a very picky guy from the club sent back 3 King frames before he got one that was blemish-free.TBH the price that the bike is being advertised for really is the only reason I am considering it (that and the childhood love of De Rosa), I was not actively seeking a new steed so it would be an opportunistic buy. My plan was to re-frame my current Felt with a Carbon version of the current Alu frame but stumbled across the De Rosa while surfing.
If there is anything wrong with the finishing then it will be a 'live with it or walk away' situation, it is a fully warrantied sale bike from a couple of seasons ago, but with a very decent build spec for the money.
As for buying carbon from the Far East, I would imagine they are probably significantly more experienced than boutique Italian frame builders at playing with carbon through the ability to invest into production techniques etc due to the volume they will be producing.
Although the chap that owns my LBS rides a Dogma, his view is that probably the best laid up carbon in the industry comes out of the doors of the GIANT factory, but the brand is not sexy enough for the majority to UK riders.
If there is anything wrong with the finishing then it will be a 'live with it or walk away' situation, it is a fully warrantied sale bike from a couple of seasons ago, but with a very decent build spec for the money.
As for buying carbon from the Far East, I would imagine they are probably significantly more experienced than boutique Italian frame builders at playing with carbon through the ability to invest into production techniques etc due to the volume they will be producing.
Although the chap that owns my LBS rides a Dogma, his view is that probably the best laid up carbon in the industry comes out of the doors of the GIANT factory, but the brand is not sexy enough for the majority to UK riders.
I have an original De Rosa Protos. Lovely frame from a great company. Agreed though, some of the newer frames seem rather overpriced for what looks and potentially is exactly the same as something that can be bought elsewhere for less than half the price.
Someone up there ^ mentioned that the King 3 RS is the only De Rosa built in Italy. The new Protos is too I believe.
The country that a frame is assembled in should certainly not affect a decision. many top brands (I'm not talking the absolute top percentile such as Baum, Parlee etc) assemble their frames elsewhere; fancy a LOOK frame? They're built in Tunisia. Makes no difference of course as they're still assembled by highly skilled staff.
Oh and shameless photo...
Someone up there ^ mentioned that the King 3 RS is the only De Rosa built in Italy. The new Protos is too I believe.
The country that a frame is assembled in should certainly not affect a decision. many top brands (I'm not talking the absolute top percentile such as Baum, Parlee etc) assemble their frames elsewhere; fancy a LOOK frame? They're built in Tunisia. Makes no difference of course as they're still assembled by highly skilled staff.
Oh and shameless photo...
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