I hate class racing!!!!!
Discussion
I am a motor sport enthusiast.....but purely as a spectator. I hate class racing because it is dull as ditch water (it's where the phrase "bores with doors" originated!).
Often in class racing (such as CSCC, Britcar, 750 motor club etc etc) there are only a couple of cars in each class which are nowhere near each other on track. You can't tell who is racing who, or who the good drivers are....it's about as interesting as watching a motorway.
I like to see drivers in near identical cars going into corners three abreast and seeing who comes out ahead. Give me Mighty Minis, Caterhams, Compact Cup etc anyday!!
Ok.....Come and shoot me down!!!! Andy97 can't be far away!
Often in class racing (such as CSCC, Britcar, 750 motor club etc etc) there are only a couple of cars in each class which are nowhere near each other on track. You can't tell who is racing who, or who the good drivers are....it's about as interesting as watching a motorway.
I like to see drivers in near identical cars going into corners three abreast and seeing who comes out ahead. Give me Mighty Minis, Caterhams, Compact Cup etc anyday!!
Ok.....Come and shoot me down!!!! Andy97 can't be far away!
I'm sure most promoters don't set up to establish a class race, but realistically they need to run classes to make an event possible. If a class succeeds it can become a one make series, most start out like this.
Personally I have no problem with class races, a long as the classes are sensible and not taken to a crazy degree where everyone runs in their own class!
I also think spotting the good guys is easy, there the ones finishing near the top despite being several classes down.
Personally I have no problem with class races, a long as the classes are sensible and not taken to a crazy degree where everyone runs in their own class!
I also think spotting the good guys is easy, there the ones finishing near the top despite being several classes down.
Once you get your head around the class structures and differences i quite like it. An excellent driver might run away with it in a one make series, but in class based racing he can use his talent to battle the higher classes. You can really see who is capeable of punching above thier weight. Throw in changeable weather to mix up the qualifying session and you can end up with all sorts of interesting battles.
Edit- Rereading i see you are talking about classes of just 2 or 3, i agree that can be boring. To see the best of class racing you need minimum class sizes of 5 or 6. I also like the idea above of coloured markers to depict which class the cars are in. This would really help spectators to follow the race.
Edit- Rereading i see you are talking about classes of just 2 or 3, i agree that can be boring. To see the best of class racing you need minimum class sizes of 5 or 6. I also like the idea above of coloured markers to depict which class the cars are in. This would really help spectators to follow the race.
Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 27th March 19:49
I race in the Dunlop TVR European Challenge which has 3 regular classes. Class A (above 300bhp/tonne at the rear wheels) which is identified with a race number on a white background, Class B (between 176bhp and 300bhp/ tonne at the rear wheels) identified by a race number on a yellow background, and Class C (below 176bhp / tonne at the rear wheels) identified by a race number on a blue background.
Its great racing with plenty going on at the same time throughout the field. Easy to follow.
Class racing is the backbone of of club level Motorsport IMHO.....
Its great racing with plenty going on at the same time throughout the field. Easy to follow.
Class racing is the backbone of of club level Motorsport IMHO.....
Yeah!!! I get all that!! My problem with class racing is that it is processional and dull! The cars go round in the order in which they qualified and nothing happens unless someone spins. Helping to identify the classes by colour coding them just goes to emphasise that most of the cars are not racing each other!
bmwguy said:
Yeah!!! I get all that!! My problem with class racing is that it is processional and dull! The cars go round in the order in which they qualified and nothing happens unless someone spins. Helping to identify the classes by colour coding them just goes to emphasise that most of the cars are not racing each other!
You need to watch the Combe saloons there was some fantastic close racing last year this year they've introduced weight penalty's to make it even closer lolGraham said:
any racing can be dull to watch, single class or multi class. depends on the drivers and the cars on the grid at the time... dont forget f1 is single class are they all equal ?
I know all you class racing guys love what you do and get a kick out of driving fast, desperately trying, but never quite managing to catch up with the car ahead, but I say again.....I am a SPECTATOR and I hate watching class races because they are DULL. I see a lot of both class racing and one make racing and I infinitely prefer to watch the one make stuff. I understand that class racing feels exciting to the drivers....when you get out of the car in Parc ferme and start talking about "if only the race had been another two laps, I could have closed that 5 second gap" but what feels like close racing to you, looks like a procession from the spectator banking. I want to see three cars side by side lap after lap swapping position every time they pass me! Give me Mighty Minis at Combe over the CCRC saloons any day!
bmwguy said:
I am a motor sport enthusiast.....but purely as a spectator. I hate class racing because it is dull as ditch water (it's where the phrase "bores with doors" originated!).
Often in class racing (such as CSCC, Britcar, 750 motor club etc etc) there are only a couple of cars in each class which are nowhere near each other on track. You can't tell who is racing who, or who the good drivers are....it's about as interesting as watching a motorway.
I like to see drivers in near identical cars going into corners three abreast and seeing who comes out ahead. Give me Mighty Minis, Caterhams, Compact Cup etc anyday!!
Ok.....Come and shoot me down!!!! Andy97 can't be far away!
I think class racing offers some of the best in the country, it allows a wide variety of cars to race each other and can gie some brilliant racing, for instance n the nw sports and saloons, monoposto, historic touring cars, world sportscar masters..it often sees lightweight nimble cars take on big heavy v8s, which is always exciting.....one make championships can be great too, but also dull as hell!Often in class racing (such as CSCC, Britcar, 750 motor club etc etc) there are only a couple of cars in each class which are nowhere near each other on track. You can't tell who is racing who, or who the good drivers are....it's about as interesting as watching a motorway.
I like to see drivers in near identical cars going into corners three abreast and seeing who comes out ahead. Give me Mighty Minis, Caterhams, Compact Cup etc anyday!!
Ok.....Come and shoot me down!!!! Andy97 can't be far away!
Seeing as you have asked for my opinion, I can understand your point of view from a spectators perspective, however, as other have pointed out, there is the spectacle of the giant killer and there is the difference in performance on different types of tracks that can bring surprise results (small nimble cars being more suited to Cadwell than bigger cars maybe and at Silverstone its reversed etc etc).
That said, I try to be a competitor and am involved in club organisation and multi-class racing is often the way to go to get big grids that meet the needs of the clubs finances. Its difficult to have single class racing for different marques of cars in club racing. The fact is though, that in club/ national racing the needs of the spectator are not paramount I'm afraid and races will be put on that suit the competitor and the club!
You also have to bear in mind that clubs are sometimes criticised for putting on races where there may only be 8 cars. Thats no fun for anyone. The solution often proposed is to merge the small grids of 2 or more poorly performing series to get one bigger grid. Hey presto, multi-class racing. Even when I do spectate, I'd rather watch a race with 3 or 4 classes making up 25 cars on the grid than 3 races with 8 or 9 cars.
I guess that there is a happy medium so that if there are multiple classes there are not too many of them, the performance between classes is not too dissimilar and still big grids, so that there is still the potential for good dices between similar cars both between classes and within classes. For eg, CSCC Tin Tops has 4 regular classes - a couple of them are not that well populated but 2 of them often have between 10 and 15 cars in each for an average grid size of 24 to 26 cars. Thats not bad going. You also see some of the 1800cc cars dicing with the 2 litre cars.
That said, I try to be a competitor and am involved in club organisation and multi-class racing is often the way to go to get big grids that meet the needs of the clubs finances. Its difficult to have single class racing for different marques of cars in club racing. The fact is though, that in club/ national racing the needs of the spectator are not paramount I'm afraid and races will be put on that suit the competitor and the club!
You also have to bear in mind that clubs are sometimes criticised for putting on races where there may only be 8 cars. Thats no fun for anyone. The solution often proposed is to merge the small grids of 2 or more poorly performing series to get one bigger grid. Hey presto, multi-class racing. Even when I do spectate, I'd rather watch a race with 3 or 4 classes making up 25 cars on the grid than 3 races with 8 or 9 cars.
I guess that there is a happy medium so that if there are multiple classes there are not too many of them, the performance between classes is not too dissimilar and still big grids, so that there is still the potential for good dices between similar cars both between classes and within classes. For eg, CSCC Tin Tops has 4 regular classes - a couple of them are not that well populated but 2 of them often have between 10 and 15 cars in each for an average grid size of 24 to 26 cars. Thats not bad going. You also see some of the 1800cc cars dicing with the 2 litre cars.
This crops up a lot and as a competitor my answer is always the same.
When spectators pay for my racing, I'll race what they want me to race. While I'm footing the bills, I'll race what I can afford to race. If that means I race a car with half the cc of the race leaders so be it. The fact that there is a special award for drivers of 1380cc cars compared to 2800cc ones is a bonus, but I really don't care whether the spectator approves or not.
To be honest, I'd rather there were no spectators at the event at all. That would slash insurance costs and slash my entry fee. Club racing is all about the drivers, national racing - eg BTCC, Clip Cup, BGT, - is about the spectacle and I agree, the spectator is an important part of the equation and should be fully catered for which the likes of Alan Gow do handsomely.
The problem is that the circuit owners actually charge outsiders to come and watch not very good participants taking part in their hobby! Imagine paying to watch someone building a model railway....
When spectators pay for my racing, I'll race what they want me to race. While I'm footing the bills, I'll race what I can afford to race. If that means I race a car with half the cc of the race leaders so be it. The fact that there is a special award for drivers of 1380cc cars compared to 2800cc ones is a bonus, but I really don't care whether the spectator approves or not.
To be honest, I'd rather there were no spectators at the event at all. That would slash insurance costs and slash my entry fee. Club racing is all about the drivers, national racing - eg BTCC, Clip Cup, BGT, - is about the spectacle and I agree, the spectator is an important part of the equation and should be fully catered for which the likes of Alan Gow do handsomely.
The problem is that the circuit owners actually charge outsiders to come and watch not very good participants taking part in their hobby! Imagine paying to watch someone building a model railway....
Furyblade_Lee said:
The easy wat to cure the problem you speak of is to have huge coloured discs next to the racing nyumbers for identification, ie: yellow disc class 1, green disc class 2 etc. and publish the colours in the race programme for easy ID. Alas, I have never seen it done...
Monoposto single seaters.andy97 said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
The easy wat to cure the problem you speak of is to have huge coloured discs next to the racing nyumbers for identification, ie: yellow disc class 1, green disc class 2 etc. and publish the colours in the race programme for easy ID. Alas, I have never seen it done...
Monoposto single seaters.We seem to get plenty of overtaking and fighting for position, I tend to run in the middle class as I find that interesting as you have both slower and quicker traffic to contend with, which needs carefull management if you are fighting someone for position in your class. Its also satisfying when you beat cars with an extra 100bhp from the class above..
I dont think its the class structure that really has anything to do with how exciting a sprint race is, its down to the competitivness and that varies dramatically.. from series to series race to race... If you follow any championship closely you'll know exactly who is who and who is fighting for what. maybe you should do that and get involved. most championships will welcome spectators with open arms, you can either muck in on just hang around for a coffee and a chat.. but you'll probably get much more out of watching racing then.
either way what ever you watch have fun..
midgetmax said:
This crops up a lot and as a competitor my answer is always the same.
When spectators pay for my racing, I'll race what they want me to race. While I'm footing the bills, I'll race what I can afford to race. If that means I race a car with half the cc of the race leaders so be it. The fact that there is a special award for drivers of 1380cc cars compared to 2800cc ones is a bonus, but I really don't care whether the spectator approves or not.
To be honest, I'd rather there were no spectators at the event at all. That would slash insurance costs and slash my entry fee. Club racing is all about the drivers, national racing - eg BTCC, Clip Cup, BGT, - is about the spectacle and I agree, the spectator is an important part of the equation and should be fully catered for which the likes of Alan Gow do handsomely.
The problem is that the circuit owners actually charge outsiders to come and watch not very good participants taking part in their hobby! Imagine paying to watch someone building a model railway....
Tend to agree.When spectators pay for my racing, I'll race what they want me to race. While I'm footing the bills, I'll race what I can afford to race. If that means I race a car with half the cc of the race leaders so be it. The fact that there is a special award for drivers of 1380cc cars compared to 2800cc ones is a bonus, but I really don't care whether the spectator approves or not.
To be honest, I'd rather there were no spectators at the event at all. That would slash insurance costs and slash my entry fee. Club racing is all about the drivers, national racing - eg BTCC, Clip Cup, BGT, - is about the spectacle and I agree, the spectator is an important part of the equation and should be fully catered for which the likes of Alan Gow do handsomely.
The problem is that the circuit owners actually charge outsiders to come and watch not very good participants taking part in their hobby! Imagine paying to watch someone building a model railway....
I always tell people that I'm a 16 Handicap golfer and a 24 Handicap racing driver. I don't expect anyone to come & watch me play golf, let alone pay for the experience!
I don't pay to watch my girlfriend go swimming. I don't pay to watch mates play snooker at the local "cue club". I don't pay to..... But I do expect people who want to watch me race to pay (a lot) to see it.
It's daft, and as Andy says the public liability insurance (etc) just increases costs for the competitor.
I go to other club meetings to look at the cars in the paddock and chat to the competitors and teams. I rarely actually watch much of the racing!!
It's daft, and as Andy says the public liability insurance (etc) just increases costs for the competitor.
I go to other club meetings to look at the cars in the paddock and chat to the competitors and teams. I rarely actually watch much of the racing!!
bmwguy said:
midgetmax said:
To be honest, I'd rather there were no spectators at the event at all. That would slash insurance costs and slash my entry fee. Club racing is all about the drivers, .........
Good to know that the drivers out on track don't give a stuff about the spectators......Nick
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