The foam neck ring argument
Discussion
I've had people asking me before on here about my thoughts on using foam doughnuts instead of a proper device (HANS/Hybrid/necksgen), I've always been against it, but I've never had any proof. Until now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iw1id3faeQ&lis...
Don't risk it folks, get the proper equipment!
Drive safe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iw1id3faeQ&lis...
Don't risk it folks, get the proper equipment!
Drive safe
Interesting. Although I though the foam ring was more to protect from a hit from behind - I got mine after I had a touch of whiplash from someone wholloping me from behind.
And I do karting - no belts so the body will usually continue forward with the head unlike the above video.
And I do karting - no belts so the body will usually continue forward with the head unlike the above video.
Edited by Mr_Thyroid on Friday 29th March 23:08
RealSquirrels said:
the foam neck rings are to prevent your neck from bending backwards, a HANS device is to prevent your neck from bending forwards. different purposes. And as a previous poster noted, in karts you wouldn't wear a seat belt, so i'm not sure what that test is showing.
That's a hugely simplistic generalisation and the test is showing that all those who think the foam ring is an alternative to a HANS, and there are many, are wrong.RealSquirrels said:
the foam neck rings are to prevent your neck from bending backwards, a HANS device is to prevent your neck from bending forwards. different purposes. And as a previous poster noted, in karts you wouldn't wear a seat belt, so i'm not sure what that test is showing.
There doe seem to be a lack of common knowledge on these devices, but there are some that can be used without belts. http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.php/choose-your-s...
This looks to be the best on the market for the application. The motor cross guys swear by the leatt brace, and they do an awful lot of landing on their heads!
On the argument that "it's better than nothing". Don't ever think like that! You only have one neck, get something that's meant for the job. You wouldn't race whilst wearing a bicycle helmet.
To quote Jim Downing (HANS inventor) "I don't care what you wear, but wear something".
Mr_Thyroid said:
This is no good without an explanation.
Because rather than allowing the neck to rotate on the various natural axis as it should, it encourages the neck to be levered away from the spine about the point of contact (which isn't all the way around during the accident). So it's like prying your neck off your spine with a prybar. And it doesn't stop over extension (basal skull fracture?), nor do they do a great deal to help with whiplash.Maybe not many have been killed because of them, but then only a vast minority of people have been killed wearing no neck protection at all, so I don't think "few deaths" = "this must be good".
tristancliffe said:
Because rather than allowing the neck to rotate on the various natural axis as it should, it encourages the neck to be levered away from the spine about the point of contact (which isn't all the way around during the accident). So it's like prying your neck off your spine with a prybar. And it doesn't stop over extension (basal skull fracture?), nor do they do a great deal to help with whiplash.
Maybe not many have been killed because of them, but then only a vast minority of people have been killed wearing no neck protection at all, so I don't think "few deaths" = "this must be good".
You seem to have neglected to attach a link to a/your study data. After all, you say yourself that there are tiny number real world examples so I think it is reasonable to back this up with data otherwise it sounds rather like it's just 'what you reckon'.Maybe not many have been killed because of them, but then only a vast minority of people have been killed wearing no neck protection at all, so I don't think "few deaths" = "this must be good".
Edited by Mr_Thyroid on Saturday 30th March 21:47
Just look at it, and visualise the load paths, contact zones and resulting pivot points. You don't need a "study" or a video to see it yourself. Applying intelligence is underrated but very rewarding, rather than relying on being spoonfed.
The reason there aren't many accidents involving them is because the vast, vast majority of racers have avoided them. The sample group is therefore small.
Besides, most "studies" and "reports" are what somebody reckons. Look at wind power - somebody is paid to "reckon" its a good thing, and so the myth continues, and the world is ruined one turbine at a time. But the studies say their great, even though none of the numbers stack up. "Studies" say lots of things that don't actually stand up. That's why you need to apply your own brainpower to problems.
The reason there aren't many accidents involving them is because the vast, vast majority of racers have avoided them. The sample group is therefore small.
Besides, most "studies" and "reports" are what somebody reckons. Look at wind power - somebody is paid to "reckon" its a good thing, and so the myth continues, and the world is ruined one turbine at a time. But the studies say their great, even though none of the numbers stack up. "Studies" say lots of things that don't actually stand up. That's why you need to apply your own brainpower to problems.
Edited by tristancliffe on Saturday 30th March 22:53
ohtari said:
There doe seem to be a lack of common knowledge on these devices, but there are some that can be used without belts.
http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.php/choose-your-s...
This looks to be the best on the market for the application. The motor cross guys swear by the leatt brace, and they do an awful lot of landing on their heads!
On the argument that "it's better than nothing". Don't ever think like that! You only have one neck, get something that's meant for the job. You wouldn't race whilst wearing a bicycle helmet.
To quote Jim Downing (HANS inventor) "I don't care what you wear, but wear something".
What you have linked to is not at all what is being discussed.http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.php/choose-your-s...
This looks to be the best on the market for the application. The motor cross guys swear by the leatt brace, and they do an awful lot of landing on their heads!
On the argument that "it's better than nothing". Don't ever think like that! You only have one neck, get something that's meant for the job. You wouldn't race whilst wearing a bicycle helmet.
To quote Jim Downing (HANS inventor) "I don't care what you wear, but wear something".
Not everyone in club racing is going to buy a hans device as here we are after 100 years of motor racing and safety gets better each decade.
I would have thought a foam neck ring is better than no foam neck ring.
Not sure what that video clip tells us other than if you drive a go kart into a solid wall at 30 mph it will hurt, regardless of what you are wearing round your neck - be it gold medalion, foam ring or HANS device.
I would have thought a foam neck ring is better than no foam neck ring.
Not sure what that video clip tells us other than if you drive a go kart into a solid wall at 30 mph it will hurt, regardless of what you are wearing round your neck - be it gold medalion, foam ring or HANS device.
I use a foam neck brace purely because I tend to lean my head in corners and end up with a sore neck after a 15 to 20 minute race. I have no illusions that it would do anything in a frontal impact and I've recently bought a HANS device although I've now decided not to bother racing for the immediate future.
rallycross said:
Not everyone in club racing is going to buy a hans device as here we are after 100 years of motor racing and safety gets better each decade.
I would have thought a foam neck ring is better than no foam neck ring.
Not sure what that video clip tells us other than if you drive a go kart into a solid wall at 30 mph it will hurt, regardless of what you are wearing round your neck - be it gold medalion, foam ring or HANS device.
It might hurt, but it might KILL you! I would have thought a foam neck ring is better than no foam neck ring.
Not sure what that video clip tells us other than if you drive a go kart into a solid wall at 30 mph it will hurt, regardless of what you are wearing round your neck - be it gold medalion, foam ring or HANS device.
http://vimeo.com/57682974#at=0
This is one of the tests performed on the new HANS adjustable. It shows the difference in head travel vary well. Take note that these are calibrated to simulate a fatal g load. That is 39.1mph!
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