Good PA system for live bands
Discussion
Hi guys I've just recently taken on a pub with I want to make a live music venue, looking at getting our own PA system as this can save money on acts / set up times.
Our pub is 1800 sq ft with a lower ceiling, there's a mass on eBay but I want quality / value which bands will be happy to use and customers will be happy to hear.
Will need help on the lot, speakers amps mics mixers and what ever else ill need
Cheers
Rich
Our pub is 1800 sq ft with a lower ceiling, there's a mass on eBay but I want quality / value which bands will be happy to use and customers will be happy to hear.
Will need help on the lot, speakers amps mics mixers and what ever else ill need
Cheers
Rich
I used to run a very well known music venue for more than 25 years catering for international touring acts. I am also a sound engineer.
Unless you have someone dedicated to the care and operation of a good PA system then don't bother.
Bands will either wreck it or steal parts of it.
If you are providing a PA system you will be expected to provide mics, mic stands, Di boxes and someone who knows how to use it as well as a front of house system complete with stage monitors, mixing desk and outboard equipment.
The more high profile acts you put on the better the spec that will be required though high profile acts usually have an engineer that works with the in house engineer.
Your average run of the mill bands don't usually have a sound guy nor do they know how to use sound equipment.
You should have a chat with a local sound guy that does touring bands and tell them you want a cheap easy to maintain system. Lots of used gear out there especially analogue mixers as most people are going digital.
Don't forget you will need stage lights.
Unless you have someone dedicated to the care and operation of a good PA system then don't bother.
Bands will either wreck it or steal parts of it.
If you are providing a PA system you will be expected to provide mics, mic stands, Di boxes and someone who knows how to use it as well as a front of house system complete with stage monitors, mixing desk and outboard equipment.
The more high profile acts you put on the better the spec that will be required though high profile acts usually have an engineer that works with the in house engineer.
Your average run of the mill bands don't usually have a sound guy nor do they know how to use sound equipment.
You should have a chat with a local sound guy that does touring bands and tell them you want a cheap easy to maintain system. Lots of used gear out there especially analogue mixers as most people are going digital.
Don't forget you will need stage lights.
V8A*ndy said:
I used to run a very well known music venue for more than 25 years catering for international touring acts. I am also a sound engineer.
Unless you have someone dedicated to the care and operation of a good PA system then don't bother.
Bands will either wreck it or steal parts of it.
If you are providing a PA system you will be expected to provide mics, mic stands, Di boxes and someone who knows how to use it as well as a front of house system complete with stage monitors, mixing desk and outboard equipment.
The more high profile acts you put on the better the spec that will be required though high profile acts usually have an engineer that works with the in house engineer.
Your average run of the mill bands don't usually have a sound guy nor do they know how to use sound equipment.
You should have a chat with a local sound guy that does touring bands and tell them you want a cheap easy to maintain system. Lots of used gear out there especially analogue mixers as most people are going digital.
Don't forget you will need stage lights.
All very true. When I've gone on tour with my (very bad) band and roadying for a bigger band, there was always an engineer in-house. A lot of the pub-type venues didn't have it fitted permanently, preferring to rent in a man and PA/light rig on the nights that there were gigs. That might be the way to go for the first few gigs to get a handle on whether the demand's there for a full time venue and the staff to support it. Unless you have someone dedicated to the care and operation of a good PA system then don't bother.
Bands will either wreck it or steal parts of it.
If you are providing a PA system you will be expected to provide mics, mic stands, Di boxes and someone who knows how to use it as well as a front of house system complete with stage monitors, mixing desk and outboard equipment.
The more high profile acts you put on the better the spec that will be required though high profile acts usually have an engineer that works with the in house engineer.
Your average run of the mill bands don't usually have a sound guy nor do they know how to use sound equipment.
You should have a chat with a local sound guy that does touring bands and tell them you want a cheap easy to maintain system. Lots of used gear out there especially analogue mixers as most people are going digital.
Don't forget you will need stage lights.
Dear rt,
Green PA Hire in the late 70s/early 80s Bath/Bristol.
I know sound re-inforcement kit has changed hugely (or should I say shrunk) since then but (and V8A may bring me up to date) if you do do it then:
Monitors - there's nothing like a band being able to hear itself to make it a popular place to play.
Simplicity - especially if you've not got a resident engineer. Keep your outboard effects to a minimum and good quality. Although regulars will get used to things.
Theft - stuff will be nicked as other posters have said. Even if all you do is get someone to collect up all the mics the second the band has left the stage. Engrave/security mark everything. Even the mains cables. It's not always malice that causes stuff to walk. For returning bands you'll often find a cable or two returning
Breakages - stuff will break. When it does get it fixed pronto. It's bloody annoying as a band to arrive at a P.A. provided venue to find no H.F. in a monitor or no bass on one side. True stories both.
New/old - definitely 2nd hand. There's so much stuff out there if you can shop around and wait, *bay is your (almost) friend.
SM57/SM58 and that is all,
regards,
Jet
davepoth said:
All very true. When I've gone on tour with my (very bad) band and roadying for a bigger band, there was always an engineer in-house. A lot of the pub-type venues didn't have it fitted permanently, preferring to rent in a man and PA/light rig on the nights that there were gigs. That might be the way to go for the first few gigs to get a handle on whether the demand's there for a full time venue and the staff to support it.
I WAS that man Green PA Hire in the late 70s/early 80s Bath/Bristol.I know sound re-inforcement kit has changed hugely (or should I say shrunk) since then but (and V8A may bring me up to date) if you do do it then:
Monitors - there's nothing like a band being able to hear itself to make it a popular place to play.
Simplicity - especially if you've not got a resident engineer. Keep your outboard effects to a minimum and good quality. Although regulars will get used to things.
Theft - stuff will be nicked as other posters have said. Even if all you do is get someone to collect up all the mics the second the band has left the stage. Engrave/security mark everything. Even the mains cables. It's not always malice that causes stuff to walk. For returning bands you'll often find a cable or two returning
Breakages - stuff will break. When it does get it fixed pronto. It's bloody annoying as a band to arrive at a P.A. provided venue to find no H.F. in a monitor or no bass on one side. True stories both.
New/old - definitely 2nd hand. There's so much stuff out there if you can shop around and wait, *bay is your (almost) friend.
SM57/SM58 and that is all,
regards,
Jet
dojo said:
If it's a smaller venue then a set of mackie activity speakers and a small 12 channel desk should be fine.
Problem is mics and stands and having them nicked!
I really rate the older Mackie stuff (USA made with RCF transducers).Problem is mics and stands and having them nicked!
Although i'm kinda retired now due to my arm problem I couldn't part with a smaller setup that I have which is a pair of Mackie 1232's mated with a pair of Peavy QW 2x18 subs processed with a DBX drive rack. It's still in my garage and it's great.
I've used this setup FOH with some very well known Metal bands on tour for audiences up to 500. Tour sound guys have been really surprised and often shocked by the power and quality and because of the drive rack and careful use i've never had a component failure.
I also used the QW range for stage monitors they are lethal loud and really easy to ring out and EQ. I used an Allen and Heath VCA console with TC electronics FX, DBX EQs and belive it or not Behringer gates and compressors as they are cheap as chips and really work well.
All in all not really an expensive setup for what it was being used for.
Never buy used mics unless you know where they are coming from. As said 58's and 57's are industry standard and chuck in a D112 for the kick drum and CS 1000s for over heads.
I used Senns 945s for vocals and AKG all round for drums except for two Beta 57's on the snare and all sorts of different stuff for cabs depending on what was going on but a 57 is a safe bet.
I used really old mics for the more "energetic" vocalists.
Don't forget cable and leads. You need to buy decent stuff here and it can add up.
Hi guys thanks for the in put, were only a very small pub probably about 120 capacity so having an engineer looking after the sound and light is a no go. The reason I'm looking at having our own PA system is that it brings the cost of the tribute bands were looking at down from £1000 to £750 and as I look to do this every weekend it will save a lot of money. It also allows me to give local bands / solo people a chance to support the tribute acts without messing around with set ups.
Rich
Rich
V8A*ndy said:
I really rate the older Mackie stuff (USA made with RCF transducers).
Although i'm kinda retired now due to my arm problem I couldn't part with a smaller setup that I have which is a pair of Mackie 1232's mated with a pair of Peavy QW 2x18 subs processed with a DBX drive rack. It's still in my garage and it's great.
I've used this setup FOH with some very well known Metal bands on tour for audiences up to 500. Tour sound guys have been really surprised and often shocked by the power and quality and because of the drive rack and careful use i've never had a component failure.
I also used the QW range for stage monitors they are lethal loud and really easy to ring out and EQ. I used an Allen and Heath VCA console with TC electronics FX, DBX EQs and belive it or not Behringer gates and compressors as they are cheap as chips and really work well.
All in all not really an expensive setup for what it was being used for.
Never buy used mics unless you know where they are coming from. As said 58's and 57's are industry standard and chuck in a D112 for the kick drum and CS 1000s for over heads.
I used Senns 945s for vocals and AKG all round for drums except for two Beta 57's on the snare and all sorts of different stuff for cabs depending on what was going on but a 57 is a safe bet.
I used really old mics for the more "energetic" vocalists.
Don't forget cable and leads. You need to buy decent stuff here and it can add up.
YhmAlthough i'm kinda retired now due to my arm problem I couldn't part with a smaller setup that I have which is a pair of Mackie 1232's mated with a pair of Peavy QW 2x18 subs processed with a DBX drive rack. It's still in my garage and it's great.
I've used this setup FOH with some very well known Metal bands on tour for audiences up to 500. Tour sound guys have been really surprised and often shocked by the power and quality and because of the drive rack and careful use i've never had a component failure.
I also used the QW range for stage monitors they are lethal loud and really easy to ring out and EQ. I used an Allen and Heath VCA console with TC electronics FX, DBX EQs and belive it or not Behringer gates and compressors as they are cheap as chips and really work well.
All in all not really an expensive setup for what it was being used for.
Never buy used mics unless you know where they are coming from. As said 58's and 57's are industry standard and chuck in a D112 for the kick drum and CS 1000s for over heads.
I used Senns 945s for vocals and AKG all round for drums except for two Beta 57's on the snare and all sorts of different stuff for cabs depending on what was going on but a 57 is a safe bet.
I used really old mics for the more "energetic" vocalists.
Don't forget cable and leads. You need to buy decent stuff here and it can add up.
Sounds just like the advise I need
Rich
richtvr said:
Hi guys thanks for the in put, were only a very small pub probably about 120 capacity so having an engineer looking after the sound and light is a no go. The reason I'm looking at having our own PA system is that it brings the cost of the tribute bands were looking at down from £1000 to £750 and as I look to do this every weekend it will save a lot of money. It also allows me to give local bands / solo people a chance to support the tribute acts without messing around with set ups.
Rich
The problem is that someone will have to look after the PA; it's a bit more involved than a Hi-Fi system. At the very least one of your bar staff (or you) is going to have to be responsible for setting out the kit (I guess you won't want it using up floor space all the time), getting all of the levels adjusted, working the PA during the set, and packing it all away at the end again. It's a full day's work for someone really, regardless of how many people are watching.Rich
davepoth said:
The problem is that someone will have to look after the PA; it's a bit more involved than a Hi-Fi system. At the very least one of your bar staff (or you) is going to have to be responsible for setting out the kit (I guess you won't want it using up floor space all the time), getting all of the levels adjusted, working the PA during the set, and packing it all away at the end again. It's a full day's work for someone really, regardless of how many people are watching.
I agree. Get someone who already has all the stuff, and who knows how to use it, in on a sub-contract basis. Good idea if your bar can be locked up in such a way that the band and their roadies, hangers on etc can come in and set up without you being there, and without being able to help themselves to your stock.Speaking as someone who plays in a covers band with our own PA - we much prefer to use our own stuff rather than house systems. We know our gear, we know the levels we need, how it works so we set things up quickly, soundcheck and leave it.
I would say your money is better spent on getting some lighting. Carting lights around is far more of a PITA than a PA, IMO.
I would say your money is better spent on getting some lighting. Carting lights around is far more of a PITA than a PA, IMO.
You could always do what many of the O'Neills bars do, which is fit an in-house PA, but only provide lines up to the stage, so the band supply their own onstage mix, monitors, mics, cables, stands and merely plug into the house system.
You could get something decent quality, mounted in good positions and have a line mixer behind the bar to run the switching from background music/DJ whatever and control of sound levels (loads of venues use BSS soundweb, which is more complex but works well) and have a decent compressor/limiter or speaker system controller to protect the venue system.
It's a bit of a pain in the a$$ to have to bring that extra gear into a venue but it's not uncommon, especially if you are looking at tribute acts, chances are they'll have worked in nightclubs or holiday camps with the same plug into in-house PA deal.
You could get something decent quality, mounted in good positions and have a line mixer behind the bar to run the switching from background music/DJ whatever and control of sound levels (loads of venues use BSS soundweb, which is more complex but works well) and have a decent compressor/limiter or speaker system controller to protect the venue system.
It's a bit of a pain in the a$$ to have to bring that extra gear into a venue but it's not uncommon, especially if you are looking at tribute acts, chances are they'll have worked in nightclubs or holiday camps with the same plug into in-house PA deal.
All gigging bands generally have their own PA system and really would not want to arrive at a venue and start to work out how to plug in and use another system already there, quicker to set up their own PA.
A lot of bands are short on decent lighting/effects so a plumbed in lighting system that works off sound to light would probably be appreciated and improve on the atsmophere of a live gig,
Regards,
Martyn.
P.s. were not too far away from you
A lot of bands are short on decent lighting/effects so a plumbed in lighting system that works off sound to light would probably be appreciated and improve on the atsmophere of a live gig,
Regards,
Martyn.
P.s. were not too far away from you
Ok I think things are being lost in translation abit here. This is a small pub with a small turn over. The reason I want to put a 'PA System' in is because you can buy them for approx £600 of eBay.
Local tribute bands want £750 to play with us supplying the PA
Or £1100 with them supplying it
As I look to do this twice a month it would make sense for us to buy our own pa set up, not interested in lighting yet. I know I will have to set the equipment up and take it down after, but for the saving this isn't a problem.
I just want to know what bands expect when they turn up ie what mics, what brand speakers, what amp, what mixer if any, what cables and anything else I would need
Cheers
Rich
Local tribute bands want £750 to play with us supplying the PA
Or £1100 with them supplying it
As I look to do this twice a month it would make sense for us to buy our own pa set up, not interested in lighting yet. I know I will have to set the equipment up and take it down after, but for the saving this isn't a problem.
I just want to know what bands expect when they turn up ie what mics, what brand speakers, what amp, what mixer if any, what cables and anything else I would need
Cheers
Rich
richtvr said:
Ok I think things are being lost in translation abit here. This is a small pub with a small turn over. The reason I want to put a 'PA System' in is because you can buy them for approx £600 of eBay.
An external firm providing PA will be expected to supply the mixing desk, some effects, a multicore cable, power amplifiers, main speakers, monitors, microphones and stands. At least. I've probably missed out some stuff. This isn't the sort of thing that can be bought from ebay for £600, or even £6,000. There's a misunderstanding going on here.richtvr said:
Ok I think things are being lost in translation abit here. This is a small pub with a small turn over. The reason I want to put a 'PA System' in is because you can buy them for approx £600 of eBay.
Local tribute bands want £750 to play with us supplying the PA
Or £1100 with them supplying it
As I look to do this twice a month it would make sense for us to buy our own pa set up, not interested in lighting yet. I know I will have to set the equipment up and take it down after, but for the saving this isn't a problem.
I just want to know what bands expect when they turn up ie what mics, what brand speakers, what amp, what mixer if any, what cables and anything else I would need
Cheers
Rich
What I would be inclined to do is to talk to a few of the acts you are intending to book and get an idea of what sort of kit they expect. It's pretty difficult to judge without knowing the standards on your "circuit".Local tribute bands want £750 to play with us supplying the PA
Or £1100 with them supplying it
As I look to do this twice a month it would make sense for us to buy our own pa set up, not interested in lighting yet. I know I will have to set the equipment up and take it down after, but for the saving this isn't a problem.
I just want to know what bands expect when they turn up ie what mics, what brand speakers, what amp, what mixer if any, what cables and anything else I would need
Cheers
Rich
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