What performance brake fluid and hoses

[alistair1234]

Did a track day taster session recently, only 30 min's but after 20 my brakes were stinking and ABS was constantly cutting in. First time me (in my own car), or my car, E46 330Ci have ever been on track.

What would you recomend ti give me better braking performance? Goodridge braded hoses?

Thanks

Edited by alistair1234 on Thursday 4th April 12:07

[Krikkit]

I favour Goodridge hoses because they fit first time (unlike other brands on occasion) and last well. Fluid I'm not sure on. Pads if you're going to venture on track more often - I'm not sure if EBC pads are decent on the E46, but they're usually a good compromise. Otherwise I'd go for Mintex 1144's or Ferodo DS2500.

[Captain Muppet]

I'm confused, how do you expect the fluid or hoses to change how your pads smell?

Edit to be less unhelpful - unless there was something wrong with your brakes ABS cutting in is a sign you need better tyres, not better brakes.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Thursday 4th April 11:50

[alistair1234]

Captain Muppet said:

I'm confused, how do you expect the fluid or hoses to change how your pads smell?

I don't expect it to change how the pads smell, I'm just stating that after 20 min's they were cooked. I changed the front discs and pads (OEM) the day after I bought the car 2 months ago as they were warped and in urgent need of changing, so I am reluctant to change them again just yet.

I thought performance fluid and braded hoses might be the next step to improve things.

[Captain Muppet]

alistair1234 said:

I don't expect it to change how the pads smell, I'm just stating that after 20 min's they were cooked. I changed the front discs and pads (OEM) the day after I bought the car 2 months ago as they were warped and in urgent need of changing, so I am reluctant to change them again just yet.

I thought performance fluid and braded hoses might be the next step to improve things.

Ignore the smell, all hot brakes smell, did they fade? Did the pedal feel change?

Braided hoses improve feel, not performance. Better fluid can help if you are overheating the fluid you have, so if it isn't boiling you won't get an improvement.

I'd toy with changing the pads and seeing how you get on, but if the extent of the problem is just a hot smell and your ABS working I'd be tempted to say there isn't a problem.

[sparkyhx]

ditto what everyone else has said

pads cooked = fade
fluid cooked = fade

if you're not experiencing fade then there is no NEED to change anything.

However better pads will stop you quicker I use EBC Yellows, used to use DS2500 but prefer the yellows now.

Fluid - look for Super dot 4 or Dot 5.1

Goodridge hoses on mine.

ABS then as someone said more a sign of either slippy surface or tyres not being up to it.

Edited by sparkyhx on Friday 5th April 12:30

[alistair1234]

Captain Muppet said:

Ignore the smell, all hot brakes smell, did they fade? Did the pedal feel change?

Braided hoses improve feel, not performance. Better fluid can help if you are overheating the fluid you have, so if it isn't boiling you won't get an improvement.

I'd toy with changing the pads and seeing how you get on, but if the extent of the problem is just a hot smell and your ABS working I'd be tempted to say there isn't a problem.

The pedal went really stiff, the ABS was kicking in under light braking and I could feel it through the wheel as if the brakes were warped again, only worse.

[Monty Python]

Simple - you need better brakes. The ones you have were never designed for track use. You need crossdrilled/groved discs and proper fast road pads. DOT 5.1 brake fluid will resist boiling better than DOT 4. Braided lines will give you better feedback, but won't improve braking performance.

[F355GTS]

alistair1234 said:

I don't expect it to change how the pads smell, I'm just stating that after 20 min's they were cooked. I changed the front discs and pads (OEM) the day after I bought the car 2 months ago as they were warped and in urgent need of changing, so I am reluctant to change them again just yet.

I thought performance fluid and braded hoses might be the next step to improve things.

Alistair, it'll all help but ultimately you're trying to stop a fairly heavy car from some big speeds. I went through the same with a Ferrari 328 years ago and you're to some extent chasing your tail ie you add better pads and get more friction which equals heat boiling the fluid

However to answer your questions the ultimate fluid is Castrol SRF or at a slightly more reasonable price AP 600. These will give a higher boiling point for the fluid and reduce the likelyhood of a soft pedal. Braided hoses will give you better pedal feel but that is all. Better pads may help, as somebody else suggested consider Ferodo 2500 or Mintex 1144 as a good compromise road/ track or go DS3000/ Mintex 1155 for more track focused use. You may be glazing the pads with hard use and whilst the pads suggested will resist this a little more you could consider some grooved discs which help to clean the pad face.

Lastly consider your braking, you may think you're being kind by being gentle with the pedal but sharper/ shorter applications are better then softer/ longer.

[roystinho]

I would imagine better pads would help first... But while you're there might as well change lines and fluid

[alistair1234]

sparkyhx said:

ditto what everyone else has said

pads cooked = fade
fluid cooked = fade

if you're not experiencing fade then there is no NEED to change anything.

However better pads will stop you quicker I use EBC Yellows, used to use DS2500 but prefer the yellows now.

Fluid - look for Super dot 4 or Dot 5

Goodridge hoses on mine.

ABS then as someone said more a sign of either slippy surface or tyres not being up to it.

The brakes were definatelly fading, the ABS was only kicking in at the end, even on my cool down lap when I wasn't braking hard, it was causing the steering wheel to move violently when I touched the brakes, at first i thought it was extremely warped discs.

Tyres are Michelin Pilot Sport 3's all with excellent tread.

Checked the EBC website and it says I can use green or red, any recommendations?

[F355GTS]

[quote=alistair1234

Checked the EBC website and it says I can use green or red, any recommendations?
[/quote]



Don't use EBC

[alistair1234]

F355GTS said:

Don't use EBC

Why?

[Monty Python]

Bear in mind that if you put fast road/track pads on with standard discs, they'll wear faster (the discs, that is).

[F355GTS]

alistair1234 said:

F355GTS said:

Don't use EBC

Why?

From experience their performance is poor on track, either no stopping power or excessive wear even on light cars. Products like the ones previously recommend will not cost much (if any) more.

[BusaMK]

Ferodo DS2500 are actually a fairly soft compound so won't wear discs that badly, and have a good coefficient of friction from 0 degrees. They are good up to 500 degrees according to their friction graph... EBD have a reputation for variable quality, although I have had good experience with them.

[SuperVM]

F355GTS said:

From experience their performance is poor on track, either no stopping power or excessive wear even on light cars. Products like the ones previously recommend will not cost much (if any) more.

I've found Bluestuff NDX to be good, though last I heard they were still for track use only. Otherwise, I've found EBC products to be fairly poor, their discs especially so. On my E36 M3 Evos I used the OEM discs and Performance Friction Z-rated pads. On other cars I've used ds2500s and always found them to be good.

[BoostMonkey]

F355GTS said:

alistair1234 said:

F355GTS said:

Don't use EBC

Why?

From experience their performance is poor on track, either no stopping power or excessive wear even on light cars. Products like the ones previously recommend will not cost much (if any) more.

Their blue pads are good, but you cant't use them on the road.

[alistair1234]

Fluid like this?


AP Racing Formula Brake Fluid DOT 5.1 500ml Race Rally Track Day http://bit.ly/Tse55e


500ml seems to be the normal bottle size, how much will I need to do a complete swap?

[AFC1886]

F355GTS said:

alistair1234 said:

F355GTS said:

Don't use EBC

Why?

From experience their performance is poor on track, either no stopping power or excessive wear even on light cars. Products like the ones previously recommend will not cost much (if any) more.

Their yellowstuff pads are very good on road and track imo. The red and green are rubbish.