Any advice on Mercedes W123 TE Estate
Discussion
Hi there
I need to get rid of our Grand Voyager and, having always loved the look of them and often thought what a great family car it would make, I'm interested in getting into a W123 Estate like this:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about them so I'm after some help.
Petrol or diesel?
Are petrol OK on unleaded?
Servicing periods and costs?
Are they expensive to keep?
How do they drive?
If I go petrol, which engine?
What's the performance like?
Do they rust?
Anything in particular to look out for?
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa?
If anyone has any advice it would be most welcome.
Cheers
Iain
I need to get rid of our Grand Voyager and, having always loved the look of them and often thought what a great family car it would make, I'm interested in getting into a W123 Estate like this:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about them so I'm after some help.
Petrol or diesel?
Are petrol OK on unleaded?
Servicing periods and costs?
Are they expensive to keep?
How do they drive?
If I go petrol, which engine?
What's the performance like?
Do they rust?
Anything in particular to look out for?
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa?
If anyone has any advice it would be most welcome.
Cheers
Iain
Great workhorses
Petrol or diesel? - Petrol but I'm biased against diesel . . .
Are petrol OK on unleaded? - Ran mine on unleaded with no problem for years
Servicing periods and costs? - Reasonable, if you don't buy direct from Merc
Are they expensive to keep? - Not particularly - I ran mine on a shoestring
How do they drive? - Steering is a bit 'vague'
If I go petrol, which engine? - 230 petrol
What's the performance like? - more than adequate
Do they rust? - Oh yes - wheel arches, sills, floorpans, jacking points, leading edge of bonnet, bottom of tailgate
Anything in particular to look out for? - Rust ! Cracked exhaust manifolds, knackered driveshafts
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa? - the later the better
Petrol or diesel? - Petrol but I'm biased against diesel . . .
Are petrol OK on unleaded? - Ran mine on unleaded with no problem for years
Servicing periods and costs? - Reasonable, if you don't buy direct from Merc
Are they expensive to keep? - Not particularly - I ran mine on a shoestring
How do they drive? - Steering is a bit 'vague'
If I go petrol, which engine? - 230 petrol
What's the performance like? - more than adequate
Do they rust? - Oh yes - wheel arches, sills, floorpans, jacking points, leading edge of bonnet, bottom of tailgate
Anything in particular to look out for? - Rust ! Cracked exhaust manifolds, knackered driveshafts
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa? - the later the better
I'd agree with most of the above having run one as a daily for a couple of years and 35000 miles plus (saloon not estate). It was a six pot 2.8 which I thought was far better than the 4 pot 230 I ran 10 years or so ago. Managed 22mpg on a moderate run but even that gets expensive over the mileage I was doing.
In all the time I had it there were service items, tyres and a perished fuel hose- no other faults. Rust, rust and more rust as mentioned above. Check the seals around doors and boot, they all have a potential to leak.
I'd have another in a shot.
In all the time I had it there were service items, tyres and a perished fuel hose- no other faults. Rust, rust and more rust as mentioned above. Check the seals around doors and boot, they all have a potential to leak.
I'd have another in a shot.
I had a sniff around these a couple of years ago but didn't end up with one (wife got a people carrier so I didn't need to get an estate). From my research it seemed that the 230E was the engine to get as it had almost all of the performance but was cheaper to run. However when I was looking all of the good examples were 280E's so had I got one that's what I would have ended up with.
That being said the previous two posters have experience of owning them so should be listened to more than me.
That being said the previous two posters have experience of owning them so should be listened to more than me.
Edited by williredale on Saturday 6th April 09:46
I would have thought the W124 would be a better bet these days as a daily driver with most of the same qualities as the W123:
More modern, safer drive, fewer 'old car' problems and ongoing maintenance and less horrendous body rot whilst keeping the Mercedes feel of quality and solidity from that era.
I think a W123 would be quite a step change from a newish Grand Voyager. Running a 30 year old car, designed 40 years ago, requires a fair bit of commitment and willingness to tinker and fettle it. Still, if that's what you're after and I'm telling you what you already know then go for it...
More modern, safer drive, fewer 'old car' problems and ongoing maintenance and less horrendous body rot whilst keeping the Mercedes feel of quality and solidity from that era.
I think a W123 would be quite a step change from a newish Grand Voyager. Running a 30 year old car, designed 40 years ago, requires a fair bit of commitment and willingness to tinker and fettle it. Still, if that's what you're after and I'm telling you what you already know then go for it...
Edited by N Dentressangle on Saturday 6th April 09:46
Diesels are going to be very slow, with 88bhp at best. There's plenty of info on them at www.honestjohn.co.uk
I read somewhere about someone who swapped a 280 for a 230 to improve fuel economy and finding very little real word difference.
Very nice cars.
I read somewhere about someone who swapped a 280 for a 230 to improve fuel economy and finding very little real word difference.
Very nice cars.
If you are after a workhorse that can carry lots of stuff / people it is hard to ignore Merc Estates.
Ten years ago I was looking for one and like you, I had a hankering for a W123. However, after seeing plenty of cars I ended up with a W124 simply because I couldn't find a rot free W123 (and they are now 10 years older). At that stage W124s were more expensive (£2500-3000 rather than £1000- 1500) and I bought a 230TE with 149k on the clock.
Today the price situation has reversed with W123s being generally more valuable than W124s and that being so, the case for the 124 has become stronger. It's generally a great place to be and the quality is palpable - everything you touch feels engineered rather than just made. The folding rear seat mechanism is a great case in point; it's far better than on today's estates.
The W124 is probably the last over-engineered Merc. We had no mechanical issues once the self levelling suspension was sorted out in about 30k miles. However, the headlights are rubbish; bad to the point where you wonder whether they are on at all, particularly when it's wet and the road surface is 'shiny'. Our car had a bizarre rear door issue - sometimes once you had opened them you couldn't close them again. Inconvenient does not do it justice! it was a check strap problem - they need to be well greased. Other than that it was simply brilliant. A Citroen driver decided to smear his car all over the back of the Merc. Whilst most of the Citroen needed sweeping up the Merc had a dented tailgate and a smashed rear light lens. Even though it was worth less than £2k then the insurance company thought it was economic to repair.
Any of these cars need to be auto...the strange foot activated handbrake makes a manual only suitable for 'Jake the Peg' (am I showing my age?) and the gear shift has such a long throw you'll hate using it anyway. In contrast the auto box is really good, particularly on late W124s.
Maintenance isn't too bad and parts supply from GSF and Euro is good and not too expensive. Personally I'd go for a W124 300D, but most of these now have stellar mileages. Any of the petrols can cope with big mileages and I would agree with the 23-25mpg mentioned before for the 230 engine.
So my advice would be to go for it...but seriously consider a W124 as a newer, more practical, safer, less rusty, cheaper alternative, which still has the same sort of appeal.
I know where you are coming from though...the W123 Estates are becoming retro style icons. £7k is a bit steep for a 100k miler, I would have thought?
Hope this helps. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
Ten years ago I was looking for one and like you, I had a hankering for a W123. However, after seeing plenty of cars I ended up with a W124 simply because I couldn't find a rot free W123 (and they are now 10 years older). At that stage W124s were more expensive (£2500-3000 rather than £1000- 1500) and I bought a 230TE with 149k on the clock.
Today the price situation has reversed with W123s being generally more valuable than W124s and that being so, the case for the 124 has become stronger. It's generally a great place to be and the quality is palpable - everything you touch feels engineered rather than just made. The folding rear seat mechanism is a great case in point; it's far better than on today's estates.
The W124 is probably the last over-engineered Merc. We had no mechanical issues once the self levelling suspension was sorted out in about 30k miles. However, the headlights are rubbish; bad to the point where you wonder whether they are on at all, particularly when it's wet and the road surface is 'shiny'. Our car had a bizarre rear door issue - sometimes once you had opened them you couldn't close them again. Inconvenient does not do it justice! it was a check strap problem - they need to be well greased. Other than that it was simply brilliant. A Citroen driver decided to smear his car all over the back of the Merc. Whilst most of the Citroen needed sweeping up the Merc had a dented tailgate and a smashed rear light lens. Even though it was worth less than £2k then the insurance company thought it was economic to repair.
Any of these cars need to be auto...the strange foot activated handbrake makes a manual only suitable for 'Jake the Peg' (am I showing my age?) and the gear shift has such a long throw you'll hate using it anyway. In contrast the auto box is really good, particularly on late W124s.
Maintenance isn't too bad and parts supply from GSF and Euro is good and not too expensive. Personally I'd go for a W124 300D, but most of these now have stellar mileages. Any of the petrols can cope with big mileages and I would agree with the 23-25mpg mentioned before for the 230 engine.
So my advice would be to go for it...but seriously consider a W124 as a newer, more practical, safer, less rusty, cheaper alternative, which still has the same sort of appeal.
I know where you are coming from though...the W123 Estates are becoming retro style icons. £7k is a bit steep for a 100k miler, I would have thought?
Hope this helps. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
Have run Mercs as daily transport for twenty two years, and that's just two cars. Had a W124 230E 1988 which ran like clockwork for 120,000 before I moved to France, and have had a W202 estate for 150,000 since, both cars running without any major problems. I loved the W124 and would highly recommend one as daily transport. If you can find a W124 300D estate it'll top 500,000 with no problems, except watch out for rust. I found the 230E somewhat underpowered but a great long distance cruiser. Semms the major problem is theft to ship to Africa!
ETA Looks reasonable:-
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C376580
Or dearer but looks a treat:-
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...
ETA Looks reasonable:-
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C376580
Or dearer but looks a treat:-
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...
Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 7th April 13:25
ICSD said:
Hi there
I need to get rid of our Grand Voyager and, having always loved the look of them and often thought what a great family car it would make, I'm interested in getting into a W123 Estate like this:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about them so I'm after some help.
Petrol or diesel?
Are petrol OK on unleaded?
Servicing periods and costs?
Are they expensive to keep?
How do they drive?
If I go petrol, which engine?
What's the performance like?
Do they rust?
Anything in particular to look out for?
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa?
If anyone has any advice it would be most welcome.
Cheers
Iain
The car in the link is so overpriced it's laughable.I need to get rid of our Grand Voyager and, having always loved the look of them and often thought what a great family car it would make, I'm interested in getting into a W123 Estate like this:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about them so I'm after some help.
Petrol or diesel?
Are petrol OK on unleaded?
Servicing periods and costs?
Are they expensive to keep?
How do they drive?
If I go petrol, which engine?
What's the performance like?
Do they rust?
Anything in particular to look out for?
Are early ones better than late ones or vice versa?
If anyone has any advice it would be most welcome.
Cheers
Iain
These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
9mm said:
The car in the link is so overpriced it's laughable.
These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
The value of the car at Avantgarde is perhaps one for debate, using a W123 daily isn't. I did, only fuel costs due to high mileage mean't it had to change. Had I been doing circa 12k p/a it would still be outside my flat now.These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
truck71 said:
9mm said:
The car in the link is so overpriced it's laughable.
These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
The value of the car at Avantgarde is perhaps one for debate, using a W123 daily isn't. I did, only fuel costs due to high mileage mean't it had to change. Had I been doing circa 12k p/a it would still be outside my flat now.These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
I run a daily driver 1995 W124 2.8E estate. Done 20k plus in 2 years- bought from Avantgarde, not the cheapest, but a genuine low mileage car. Needed a new exhaust last year (less than £500 genuine & fitted first time!),this year new pads & discs & that's been it. Allow £750 a year for service etc, minimal depreciation, Cruises at whatever you want (115+ on autobahn)gives 27-30mpg (not at 115!). Comfortable & carries everything (self levelling rear suspension),just done 900 miles in 5 days to the Loire & back.
Not a ball of fire, but get a good un, change the oils regularly & enjoy (as they say!)
Not a ball of fire, but get a good un, change the oils regularly & enjoy (as they say!)
williredale said:
Just a few working as taxis in Marrakech. The cars on the road there seem to be either W123 Mercs, small french cars or lots of new Dacias.
Myself I wouldn't buy a W123 as they are just over-priced these days. It's relative though - if you want one you'll really love it.
Just be aware, that at six grand odd - they are wildly overpriced. They rust badly, really badly. But, in my experience, so do W124's. This whole rust thing is a bit daft. Total pot luck with any Mercedes - from my experience the pre-facelift W124 cars rust least. They are probably the best Mercs along with the w201 190. I've got a W210 at the moment which is notorious for rust. Not even a tiny bit on it. I bought it as a stop-gap and have had to reluctantly admit it's miles, miles better than the W124 I had before.
The best way to get one would be to ring the local Mercedes specialist mechanic (Specialist servicing, absolutely not specialist sales). Introduce yourself and explain what you are trying to do. Tell them you will use them to service the car and ask, nicely and with the offer of a good bottle of Scotch, if they know of anything for sale that fits the bill. They will find you a decent car and it'll be in their interest to do so. Independent Merc guys are always obsessed with the cars - you are far more likely to get a decent car through them, than you are from a boutique dealer. Classic Merc dealers have become horribly greedy lately (except for MTSV - he's much cheaper) - I think they are worried about wobbles in the market myself.
If it's the style of the W123 you like so much then I applaud you! in that case, nothing else will do. If you don't need seven seats - buy a saloon. They are much cheaper, double cool, and the boots are HUGE.
Just be aware, that at six grand odd - they are wildly overpriced. They rust badly, really badly. But, in my experience, so do W124's. This whole rust thing is a bit daft. Total pot luck with any Mercedes - from my experience the pre-facelift W124 cars rust least. They are probably the best Mercs along with the w201 190. I've got a W210 at the moment which is notorious for rust. Not even a tiny bit on it. I bought it as a stop-gap and have had to reluctantly admit it's miles, miles better than the W124 I had before.
The best way to get one would be to ring the local Mercedes specialist mechanic (Specialist servicing, absolutely not specialist sales). Introduce yourself and explain what you are trying to do. Tell them you will use them to service the car and ask, nicely and with the offer of a good bottle of Scotch, if they know of anything for sale that fits the bill. They will find you a decent car and it'll be in their interest to do so. Independent Merc guys are always obsessed with the cars - you are far more likely to get a decent car through them, than you are from a boutique dealer. Classic Merc dealers have become horribly greedy lately (except for MTSV - he's much cheaper) - I think they are worried about wobbles in the market myself.
If it's the style of the W123 you like so much then I applaud you! in that case, nothing else will do. If you don't need seven seats - buy a saloon. They are much cheaper, double cool, and the boots are HUGE.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 9th April 00:10
truck71 said:
9mm said:
The car in the link is so overpriced it's laughable.
These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
The value of the car at Avantgarde is perhaps one for debate, using a W123 daily isn't.These cars are now so old that they can only survive as weekenders/hobby cars. Shocking rust and I'd suggest buying a much later model.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff