The rise of the strap on........
Discussion
Has anyone else noticed the sudden increase in the number of road bikes with aero bars being 'strapped on' recently?
I started to notice the phenomenon a couple of months back around the Thames Valley and Chilterns, seemingly 'normal' road bikes having aero bars strapped to them wobbling along the roads at not very high speed. Initially I thought it was a bit of a Thames Valley 'thing' but went for a short spin around Somerset today and came across another couple of people (one on a Felt and one on a Spech) crouched over their aero bars but not going that fast - they can't have as I passed them!
Am I missing something here? My assumption has always been sticking a set of aero's on your road bars and moving yourself so far forward in the saddle is likely to upset the bike balance and result in a bad back. TT bikes have a different geo and are designed around the aero position, I would imagine doing this on a road bike with racing or touring geo would be quite de-stabalising?
I started to notice the phenomenon a couple of months back around the Thames Valley and Chilterns, seemingly 'normal' road bikes having aero bars strapped to them wobbling along the roads at not very high speed. Initially I thought it was a bit of a Thames Valley 'thing' but went for a short spin around Somerset today and came across another couple of people (one on a Felt and one on a Spech) crouched over their aero bars but not going that fast - they can't have as I passed them!
Am I missing something here? My assumption has always been sticking a set of aero's on your road bars and moving yourself so far forward in the saddle is likely to upset the bike balance and result in a bad back. TT bikes have a different geo and are designed around the aero position, I would imagine doing this on a road bike with racing or touring geo would be quite de-stabalising?
Easy way for Triathlodorks(tm) to convert comparatively cheap(er) road bikes, without going the whole hog. It's not optimum, but it does get you a little more aero. IIRC however it can put you in a less efficient position (you simply can't generate the power) and as you've observed, it can screw riding position/handling.
Edited by Jimbo. on Saturday 6th April 23:28
MadDad said:
Am I missing something here? My assumption has always been sticking a set of aero's on your road bars and moving yourself so far forward in the saddle is likely to upset the bike balance and result in a bad back. TT bikes have a different geo and are designed around the aero position, I would imagine doing this on a road bike with racing or touring geo would be quite de-stabalising?
With the right changes (saddle forward, height adjustment, and shorter stem) it is possible to create a half decent 'aero' position on a lot of roadbikes without the handling being *too* bad.. of course many folks just strap them on and change nothing else, which is decidedly sub-optimal, and steering with them is a bit funky at the best of times. Frankly for most people the limiting factor isn't really the bike's handling, it's more their perception of the bikes handling - if you see what I mean. Speaking as a tri-dork, I'd have to say most tri-folks have rubbish bike handling....upsidedownmark said:
... I'd have to say most tri-folks have rubbish bike handling....
Having watched the ITU from Auckland my dad and me had the same conversation after a succession of crashes in the "Elite" mens race.Before I bought my bike I considered the road bike and clip ons. In the end bought a TT bike, got a Retul and am dead chuffed with it. It's more skitish at 60-70K down hill that say a MTB or a road bike, inevitable since it's a very steep setup even when on the base bar. But I can live with it.
Wow. You folks would really object to me then... I had a pair on my fixed gear road bike for a few years, last year moved them to my hybrid. Not done through affectation, but I find the position helps when grinding along into a headwind on the exposed roads. I'm rather large and sail-shaped. Plus it's nice to have a bigger range of possible riding positions and they make a handy frame type holder for my phone/gps 
zax said:
...I find the position helps when grinding along into a headwind on the exposed roads.
Exactly. I used to do triathlons as a fun alternative to my running but didn't want to buy a specific triathlon bike (smaller wheels, different frame geometry etc.) so I used my Cougar road bike with tri-bars (I've never heard them called strap-ons). I liked them because; i) they made me more aerodynamic because my shoulders would tuck in and ii) on longer straights they provided somewhere to relax after the swim. I think there is tendency in all sports for people to be sniffy about others, especially when it comes to equipment. My view is that at least they are out there doing something active even if I wouldn't use the kit in the same way. 
A TT tandem is definitively NOT lunacy. That one may be a little OTT 
but there are quite a few tandem crews competing in Time Trials. They tend to be pretty damned quick too. Last time I saw one ridden in anger it came in a good couple of minutes ahead of the quickest solo rider. Mock ye not!
but there are quite a few tandem crews competing in Time Trials. They tend to be pretty damned quick too. Last time I saw one ridden in anger it came in a good couple of minutes ahead of the quickest solo rider. Mock ye not!Ok, so aside from being 'sniffy', and not neglecting that there's some fun to be had, here's some (serious, hopefully sensible) thoughts about aero bars:
How you fit and ride a bike is dictated to a large extent by 3 contact points. Your hands, butt and feet. Particularly the hands-butt, and butt-feet (feet-hands is more flexible). The spatial relationship between those is dictated by human morphology (shape) in general, and yours in particular, with a little bit of 'how flexible are you' built in. We frequently, and correctly make a lot out of the importance of fit - that is adapting the general bike to you specifically.
If you look at a road bike, and where we place our hands when we ride (i.e. the hoods, or the drops), they're a fairly consistent distance from the saddle. If you now bolt on aerobars you shove your hands way out front. That doesn't necessarily make you more aero (a lot of bolt ons actually stack you above the bars by a fair bit); but it does stretch you out, which isn't really a good thing. So, really you have to bring the bars back to you.. in my case that meant taking 30mm out of the stem - screwing up the regular 'drops/hoods position in the process..
Now consider that if you want to get aero, what you really need to do is get lower at the front - take out shims etc, and unless you're nice and flexible you're going to want to shove the saddle forwards to open your hip angle and compensate for the slack seatpost angle. What that does is shove your weight forwards, and depending on how far you need / or want to go, it *can* cause handling problems as you are putting far more weight over the front than was ever intended when the bike was designed.
Now, provided you can juggle all of those into a decent compromise you can ride a road bike with clip-on aerobars very effectively. It's a perfectly reasonable path, and works well for a lot of folks. BUT a road bike fitted for clip ons is completely 'messed up' from the regular road bike fit. You're really in one mode or another, they change the fit completely.
Then you come to the hybrids, mountain bikes and such with clip-ons. I'm not sniffy - if it makes you happy, fine. I'll probably roll my eyes 'cos I think you're missing the point a bit, but that's my prerogative as much as it is yours to stick them there
Basically, the point in aerobars is to make it 'comfortable' to ride in a low(er) position for an extended period of time - you can ultimately get more aero on a road bike, but nobody can maintain that position, or develop good power for a long time, you're simply putting too much load on your wrists, and closing up your hip angle too much. Equally, if there's not plenty of load on your elbows, you don't really need the aero bars!
If you choose to buy a upright bike such as a hybrid for comfort and practicality, all power to you.. but the point of the bike is it does put you in a 'sail' like position, prioritising comfort over performance. Bolting aerobars on it would seem to be kinda missing the point - I'm also very seriously sceptical that it improves your aerodynamics one jot, even if the 'stretched-out' feeling seems like it. I'd also suggest it's not that comfortable, or good for you over an extended period of time.
But hey, that's just my take.
How you fit and ride a bike is dictated to a large extent by 3 contact points. Your hands, butt and feet. Particularly the hands-butt, and butt-feet (feet-hands is more flexible). The spatial relationship between those is dictated by human morphology (shape) in general, and yours in particular, with a little bit of 'how flexible are you' built in. We frequently, and correctly make a lot out of the importance of fit - that is adapting the general bike to you specifically.
If you look at a road bike, and where we place our hands when we ride (i.e. the hoods, or the drops), they're a fairly consistent distance from the saddle. If you now bolt on aerobars you shove your hands way out front. That doesn't necessarily make you more aero (a lot of bolt ons actually stack you above the bars by a fair bit); but it does stretch you out, which isn't really a good thing. So, really you have to bring the bars back to you.. in my case that meant taking 30mm out of the stem - screwing up the regular 'drops/hoods position in the process..
Now consider that if you want to get aero, what you really need to do is get lower at the front - take out shims etc, and unless you're nice and flexible you're going to want to shove the saddle forwards to open your hip angle and compensate for the slack seatpost angle. What that does is shove your weight forwards, and depending on how far you need / or want to go, it *can* cause handling problems as you are putting far more weight over the front than was ever intended when the bike was designed.
Now, provided you can juggle all of those into a decent compromise you can ride a road bike with clip-on aerobars very effectively. It's a perfectly reasonable path, and works well for a lot of folks. BUT a road bike fitted for clip ons is completely 'messed up' from the regular road bike fit. You're really in one mode or another, they change the fit completely.
Then you come to the hybrids, mountain bikes and such with clip-ons. I'm not sniffy - if it makes you happy, fine. I'll probably roll my eyes 'cos I think you're missing the point a bit, but that's my prerogative as much as it is yours to stick them there
Basically, the point in aerobars is to make it 'comfortable' to ride in a low(er) position for an extended period of time - you can ultimately get more aero on a road bike, but nobody can maintain that position, or develop good power for a long time, you're simply putting too much load on your wrists, and closing up your hip angle too much. Equally, if there's not plenty of load on your elbows, you don't really need the aero bars!
If you choose to buy a upright bike such as a hybrid for comfort and practicality, all power to you.. but the point of the bike is it does put you in a 'sail' like position, prioritising comfort over performance. Bolting aerobars on it would seem to be kinda missing the point - I'm also very seriously sceptical that it improves your aerodynamics one jot, even if the 'stretched-out' feeling seems like it. I'd also suggest it's not that comfortable, or good for you over an extended period of time.
But hey, that's just my take.
yellowjack said:
A TT tandem is definitively NOT lunacy. That one may be a little OTT but there are quite a few tandem crews competing in Time Trials. They tend to be pretty damned quick too. Last time I saw one ridden in anger it came in a good couple of minutes ahead of the quickest solo rider. Mock ye not!
Double the power, with little difference in aero. They're gonne be fast! but there are quite a few tandem crews competing in Time Trials. They tend to be pretty damned quick too. Last time I saw one ridden in anger it came in a good couple of minutes ahead of the quickest solo rider. Mock ye not!Well considered view there UDM, and in part why I raised the question.
2 weeks ago I found a bike I fell in love with (road racing bike with a very aggressive geo), but it was not cheap so I decided to get a bike fit before parting with the cash. The only way to make the bike fit me was to fit a very long stem, move the seat forward so far that it would compromise my pedal stroke, reduce power delivery and ultimately totally upset the bikes balance and handling characteristics - so as much as I wanted the bike (a LOT), I walked away. I ended up with another bike which fits like a glove and so far in just over 90 miles has been very impressive.
I have to admit I wonder how many of the people you see wobbling along on a road bike with aero bars actually see any tangible (measurable) gain from the bars, or would be better off simply training more, and harder - those pesky men in the marketing departments of cycle accessory companies are always inventing things we 'need'. I would imagine a well fitted road racer is probably more aero on the drops than a road bike with strap ons, but that is just my non-scientific opinion as someone who rides on the drops a lot.
Another theory I had was that with the rise of cycling popularity some people have simply been looking to go faster with the same effort they would expend on a normal training ride. Personally (and I expect to get totally flamed for this, probably quite rightly), I can't help but view them as a whale tail on an invalid carriage!
As for a tandem TT bike I can totally see the point of that - one resting while the other is at full power and visa-versa, stands to reason that with a twin engine it would go faster!!
2 weeks ago I found a bike I fell in love with (road racing bike with a very aggressive geo), but it was not cheap so I decided to get a bike fit before parting with the cash. The only way to make the bike fit me was to fit a very long stem, move the seat forward so far that it would compromise my pedal stroke, reduce power delivery and ultimately totally upset the bikes balance and handling characteristics - so as much as I wanted the bike (a LOT), I walked away. I ended up with another bike which fits like a glove and so far in just over 90 miles has been very impressive.
I have to admit I wonder how many of the people you see wobbling along on a road bike with aero bars actually see any tangible (measurable) gain from the bars, or would be better off simply training more, and harder - those pesky men in the marketing departments of cycle accessory companies are always inventing things we 'need'. I would imagine a well fitted road racer is probably more aero on the drops than a road bike with strap ons, but that is just my non-scientific opinion as someone who rides on the drops a lot.
Another theory I had was that with the rise of cycling popularity some people have simply been looking to go faster with the same effort they would expend on a normal training ride. Personally (and I expect to get totally flamed for this, probably quite rightly), I can't help but view them as a whale tail on an invalid carriage!
As for a tandem TT bike I can totally see the point of that - one resting while the other is at full power and visa-versa, stands to reason that with a twin engine it would go faster!!
Going on a slight tangeant. Not talking about more compromised setups.
When I had my Retul. The aim was to kind of rotate me forwards. So bum up a bit, which dropped my shoulders, and more importantly put my elbows at nearer right angles so the load was being directed down my upper arms. Made me far more stable, I wasn't "reaching" forward. (Have you ever seen Boardmans superman postion?) Effectively to stop me "projecting" my load off the bike. Pushing the seat forward opened up the hips a bit so I could maintain more power.
upsidedownmark said:
...
Basically, the point in aerobars is to make it 'comfortable' to ride in a low(er) position for an extended period of time - you can ultimately get more aero on a road bike, but nobody can maintain that position, or develop good power for a long time, you're simply putting too much load on your wrists, and closing up your hip angle too much. Equally, if there's not plenty of load on your elbows, you don't really need the aero bars!
I don't consider the problem to be load on wrists tbh. Hip angle is important for power obviously but pain tends to come from my neck if anywhere which contributes to me not being able to maintain the position for long periods.Basically, the point in aerobars is to make it 'comfortable' to ride in a low(er) position for an extended period of time - you can ultimately get more aero on a road bike, but nobody can maintain that position, or develop good power for a long time, you're simply putting too much load on your wrists, and closing up your hip angle too much. Equally, if there's not plenty of load on your elbows, you don't really need the aero bars!
When I had my Retul. The aim was to kind of rotate me forwards. So bum up a bit, which dropped my shoulders, and more importantly put my elbows at nearer right angles so the load was being directed down my upper arms. Made me far more stable, I wasn't "reaching" forward. (Have you ever seen Boardmans superman postion?) Effectively to stop me "projecting" my load off the bike. Pushing the seat forward opened up the hips a bit so I could maintain more power.
Rich_W said:
I don't consider the problem to be load on wrists tbh. Hip angle is important for power obviously but pain tends to come from my neck if anywhere which contributes to me not being able to maintain the position for long periods.
When I had my Retul. The aim was to kind of rotate me forwards. So bum up a bit, which dropped my shoulders, and more importantly put my elbows at nearer right angles so the load was being directed down my upper arms. Made me far more stable, I wasn't "reaching" forward. (Have you ever seen Boardmans superman postion?) Effectively to stop me "projecting" my load off the bike. Pushing the seat forward opened up the hips a bit so I could maintain more power.
Sorry, I could have been clearer - I meant that being very aero in the regular drops loads the wrists, and (properly) configured aero bars alleviate that by putting the load through your elbows and upper arm - you're spot on about the right angle part. and the load being felt in the shoulders.When I had my Retul. The aim was to kind of rotate me forwards. So bum up a bit, which dropped my shoulders, and more importantly put my elbows at nearer right angles so the load was being directed down my upper arms. Made me far more stable, I wasn't "reaching" forward. (Have you ever seen Boardmans superman postion?) Effectively to stop me "projecting" my load off the bike. Pushing the seat forward opened up the hips a bit so I could maintain more power.
I haven't seen Boardman's position - that sounds a bit like what you get when you just add clip-ons without changing anything!
And to Mad-Dad's point, I definitely see higher top speeds descending with full commitment on my roadbike, but I hold higher flat speeds on my TT rig. But I'm also a wuss and ride on the hoods 90% of the time on the roady
Mind you, training more trumps pretty much every bit of gear for 99% of people. Right up until the point you overdo it and get injured (doh!)..
Edited by upsidedownmark on Monday 8th April 23:25
upsidedownmark said:
Sorry, I could have been clearer - I meant that being very aero in the regular drops loads the wrists, and (properly) configured aero bars alleviate that by putting the load through your elbows and upper arm - you're spot on about the right angle part. and the load being felt in the shoulders.
I haven't seen Boardman's position - that sounds a bit like what you get when you just add clip-ons without changing anything!
And to Mad-Dad's point, I definitely see higher top speeds descending with full commitment on my roadbike, but I hold higher flat speeds on my TT rig. But I'm also a wuss and ride on the hoods 90% of the time on the roady
Mind you, training more trumps pretty much every bit of gear for 99% of people. Right up until the point you overdo it and get injured (doh!)..
I get where you're coming from and don't disagree, especially if somebody is looking for optimal performance. I'm sure there are as many reasons for fitting them as there are riders, some well thought out and some less so. I'd say that MadDad's whale tail on an invalid carriage example is more like a big engine in an estate car in my case.I haven't seen Boardman's position - that sounds a bit like what you get when you just add clip-ons without changing anything!
And to Mad-Dad's point, I definitely see higher top speeds descending with full commitment on my roadbike, but I hold higher flat speeds on my TT rig. But I'm also a wuss and ride on the hoods 90% of the time on the roady
Mind you, training more trumps pretty much every bit of gear for 99% of people. Right up until the point you overdo it and get injured (doh!)..
Edited by upsidedownmark on Monday 8th April 23:25
It's all about compromise. 20% of the time I'm on gravel and bumpy stuff so the hybrid is useful and takes the knocks better. But on the long, windy, exposed roads through the fields here the less upright position really helps me. I don't have the luxury of having a five bike (or car!) garage right now so I bolt on and make the best of what I have. I removed them in November when I fitted the snow tyres, too much weight over the front in the snow is not helpful. But they'll be going back on next week along with the mudguards
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff