6s/240mph TFB & 4s/sub300mph TFDs ????
Discussion
Can anyone offer opinions on:
Top Fuel Bike 240mph but still in the 6s (6.04). It looked like a good straight charge. Compare with Peter Svennson running 5.7s at 220mph, is it Peter clicking off early? If so – mindboggling!
What is the TFB world speed record?
Top Fuel Dragsters regularly deep in the 4s (4.7s) but still clocking well under 300mph (1/4 mile). Obviously early shutoffs could cause this but that didn’t appear to be the case, though a run of 4.50 @ 332mph did occur.
No doubt there could be many reasons but it just struck me as a bit odd. In my experience most high 4 second runs will be near as dammit to 300mph or over and 240mph on a bike, well I could barely believe that in the first place but am amazed it hadn’t gone quicker.
Top Fuel Bike 240mph but still in the 6s (6.04). It looked like a good straight charge. Compare with Peter Svennson running 5.7s at 220mph, is it Peter clicking off early? If so – mindboggling!
What is the TFB world speed record?
Top Fuel Dragsters regularly deep in the 4s (4.7s) but still clocking well under 300mph (1/4 mile). Obviously early shutoffs could cause this but that didn’t appear to be the case, though a run of 4.50 @ 332mph did occur.
No doubt there could be many reasons but it just struck me as a bit odd. In my experience most high 4 second runs will be near as dammit to 300mph or over and 240mph on a bike, well I could barely believe that in the first place but am amazed it hadn’t gone quicker.
Speeds for bikes can often be suspect. In the speed trap the rear wheel can trigger the first beam and then the front wheel comes down and trips the second beam.
The only way to know is to see performances backed up.
Peter svennson is regularly running quick et's at all incrementals and high speeds, his performances are certainly correct.
When you shut off early at say 1000ft it tends to impact the speed a lot more than it impacts et so often you see ets and speeds that look like they don't make sense.
The only way to know is to see performances backed up.
Peter svennson is regularly running quick et's at all incrementals and high speeds, his performances are certainly correct.
When you shut off early at say 1000ft it tends to impact the speed a lot more than it impacts et so often you see ets and speeds that look like they don't make sense.
My guess would be :
TFD has about 8.000 HP and more than double tire contact patch,
plus tons of downforce otherwise the tires would go up in smoke,
and a weight of about 950 Kg.
TFB has about 1200-1500 HP, single tire contact patch and far less downforce,
most bikes still have two or three speed trans so lose out drive
compared to clutch-only TFD, bikes are heavy haulers at about 450Kg.
TFD has about 8.000 HP and more than double tire contact patch,
plus tons of downforce otherwise the tires would go up in smoke,
and a weight of about 950 Kg.
TFB has about 1200-1500 HP, single tire contact patch and far less downforce,
most bikes still have two or three speed trans so lose out drive
compared to clutch-only TFD, bikes are heavy haulers at about 450Kg.
firewalker said:
Top Fuel Bike 240mph but still in the 6s (6.04). It looked like a good straight charge. Compare with Peter Svennson running 5.7s at 220mph, is it Peter clicking off early? If so – mindboggling! What is the TFB world speed record?
Yes. On the 5.709s pass, he was doing over 238mph at 1000' which is about where he shut off before crossing the line at 220mph.PiPPi will no doubt be along with the definitive answer soon, but the dragbike forum maintains a list of the quickest and fastest bikes, and I believe Korry Hogan's 255mph pass is still the highest terminal speed.
Edited by Tet on Thursday 11th April 11:17
Tet said:
Yes. On the 5.709s pass, he was doing over 238mph at 1000' which is about where he shut off before crossing the line at 220mph.
!!!!!!!Tet said:
the dragbike forum maintains a list of the quickest and fastest bikes, and I believe Korry Hogan's 255mph pass is still the highest terminal speed.
Good source, great info and very up to date I noticed! No Eric Teboul though, assuming the rocket bike is out of the classification.Edited by Tet on Thursday 11th April 11:17
Hello,
Yes, Korry has the highest recorded speed in TFB racing. And, yes, recorded bike speeds on that level can be tricky in that it's not rare that you can go through the first speed trap light with the front wheel in the air and setting it down before the second light, effectively shortening the distance for measuring the speed by the wheelbase of the bike.
This is not done on purpose, but it happens and high speeds causes very heated discussions from time to time.
Some people look at the absolute increase in speed from 660' to the finishline as a sanity check. I go the percentage route and if you have an increase of say 40% from halftrack to the finish on a full power run then obviously the two trap lights has not been triggered by the same wheel.
Korry has run multiple runs over 250 mph, I think he ran a 254 the same weekend as the 255 and I know of noone who doubts the record number.
The Svensson Brothers: The 5.709 was obviously not a full pull as evidenced by the incremental speeds and of course his own account. The same with the 5.725 that he ran in Q4 at last years The Finals, speed at the 1000´ was 236 mph and at the finish it was 227 mph.
Peter is in the #1 spot for ET in "The List" but only number 12 for speed. Interesingly enough, the 1000' speed at Tierp, 238, would make the #7 spot in The List if that would've been at the finish line.
On that, some people know I dabble in numbers and that's because I'm very fascinated by mixing up theory and practice when it comes to engineering, and drag racing is one of the best outlets for that. It was obvious that the power in the Svensson bike was not an issue in running a 5 second run, getting it into the ground is pretty much all. A lot of time has been spent on wheels and tires and it all came together at Gardermoen in 2009. More 5- and 6.0-second runs followed with a lot of good incrementals. We took all of the best incrementals out of the separate runs and put them together in an ideal theoretical run. This was in the spring of 2012 and that theoretical number came out to 5.705. Not too far off what followed later that summer.
Some new things are coming up this season like a new blower and body work. The new blower says something about where the team is, so to speak. I discussed the old blower with Sören Svensson a few years ago and asked why they did not move with the newer and more efficient unit that is available and he said "we have more power than we can put to the ground so we see no need for that cost". And now they have bought that new blower. You figure.
Right. About putting the best incrementals together. The two 5.7s netted a betterment or two so the new theoretical run is in the 5.6 second region and that was with the bike in the "old" trim.
http://youtu.be/KFkDtuX5uUw
Regards
PiPPi
Yes, Korry has the highest recorded speed in TFB racing. And, yes, recorded bike speeds on that level can be tricky in that it's not rare that you can go through the first speed trap light with the front wheel in the air and setting it down before the second light, effectively shortening the distance for measuring the speed by the wheelbase of the bike.
This is not done on purpose, but it happens and high speeds causes very heated discussions from time to time.
Some people look at the absolute increase in speed from 660' to the finishline as a sanity check. I go the percentage route and if you have an increase of say 40% from halftrack to the finish on a full power run then obviously the two trap lights has not been triggered by the same wheel.
Korry has run multiple runs over 250 mph, I think he ran a 254 the same weekend as the 255 and I know of noone who doubts the record number.
The Svensson Brothers: The 5.709 was obviously not a full pull as evidenced by the incremental speeds and of course his own account. The same with the 5.725 that he ran in Q4 at last years The Finals, speed at the 1000´ was 236 mph and at the finish it was 227 mph.
Peter is in the #1 spot for ET in "The List" but only number 12 for speed. Interesingly enough, the 1000' speed at Tierp, 238, would make the #7 spot in The List if that would've been at the finish line.
On that, some people know I dabble in numbers and that's because I'm very fascinated by mixing up theory and practice when it comes to engineering, and drag racing is one of the best outlets for that. It was obvious that the power in the Svensson bike was not an issue in running a 5 second run, getting it into the ground is pretty much all. A lot of time has been spent on wheels and tires and it all came together at Gardermoen in 2009. More 5- and 6.0-second runs followed with a lot of good incrementals. We took all of the best incrementals out of the separate runs and put them together in an ideal theoretical run. This was in the spring of 2012 and that theoretical number came out to 5.705. Not too far off what followed later that summer.
Some new things are coming up this season like a new blower and body work. The new blower says something about where the team is, so to speak. I discussed the old blower with Sören Svensson a few years ago and asked why they did not move with the newer and more efficient unit that is available and he said "we have more power than we can put to the ground so we see no need for that cost". And now they have bought that new blower. You figure.
Right. About putting the best incrementals together. The two 5.7s netted a betterment or two so the new theoretical run is in the 5.6 second region and that was with the bike in the "old" trim.
http://youtu.be/KFkDtuX5uUw
Regards
PiPPi
Edited by PiPPl on Friday 12th April 09:10
PiPPl said:
Korry has run multiple runs over 250 mph, I think he ran a 254 the same weekend as the 255 and I know of noone who doubts the record number.
Any idea why his top end speeds are so much higher than anyone else? Sure, I know that the particular combination might favour high terminal speeds more than other bikes, but he's got over 7mph on his next nearest rival, and 15mph on most of the rest of the class. Margins like that are almost unheard of in drag racing.Tet said:
Any idea why his top end speeds are so much higher than anyone else? Sure, I know that the particular combination might favour high terminal speeds more than other bikes, but he's got over 7mph on his next nearest rival, and 15mph on most of the rest of the class. Margins like that are almost unheard of in drag racing.
Gearing and balls.Gearing: Korry's best ET is a 5.78 at "only" 246 mph.
Balls: Korry crashed the bike on that run.
Regards
PiPPi
Edited by PiPPl on Friday 12th April 09:54
From the FIA rulebook: "Photocell Heights: Ideally, light sources should be mounted as close as possible to the level of the track surface"
From the FIM rulebook: "All other photocells should be 150mm ±20 mm above the track surface." The "all other" refers to photocells past the 60' line.
Regards
PiPPi
From the FIM rulebook: "All other photocells should be 150mm ±20 mm above the track surface." The "all other" refers to photocells past the 60' line.
Regards
PiPPi
The beam heights down track are 6 inches (which caused great fun with the new track, the holes for the beams were no longer 6 inches off the surface).
I read an article last year about Compulink experimenting with "light screens" about 70cm high on the startline, effectively making a wall of light which would be broken by the front of the vehicle regardless of design. The plan is to find a way of using these down track too and (almost) completely eliminating the chance of the beams being triggered by anything but the front of the vehicle whether or not the wheels are in the air. I think that's a few years off being introduced in NHRA championships though let alone European ones.
I read an article last year about Compulink experimenting with "light screens" about 70cm high on the startline, effectively making a wall of light which would be broken by the front of the vehicle regardless of design. The plan is to find a way of using these down track too and (almost) completely eliminating the chance of the beams being triggered by anything but the front of the vehicle whether or not the wheels are in the air. I think that's a few years off being introduced in NHRA championships though let alone European ones.
ribaric said:
My thanks to all for the info. I do, however, have a locker filled with stupid questions.
Please don't hesitate to put questions up in here. Bikes, cars, whatever. Meself reads here to keep up with the finer details about FIA/FIM championship drag racing from a different perspective than the local boards here in Sweden.Regards
PiPPi
PiPPl said:
Please don't hesitate to put questions up in here. Bikes, cars, whatever. Meself reads here to keep up with the finer details about FIA/FIM championship drag racing from a different perspective than the local boards here in Sweden.
For the record then the OP referred to recent events in Australia (hence 1/4 mile TFD), so is ANDRA not FIA.hairyjester said:
I read an article last year about Compulink experimenting with "light screens" about 70cm high on the startline, effectively making a wall of light which would be broken by the front of the vehicle regardless of design.
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