Is road riding just too dangerous?
Discussion
Last year a guy I know, a very fit consultant doctor, crashed in a race into a van - he's now in a dreadful state and will be for life. Another local successful rider, aged 23, recently died in a bike crash.
I have always MTB'd a lot and love it but not road ridden loads - I bought one and trained a bit to do a local triathlon and did a couple (20th/180 on the first in the riding - think the MTBing helped a fair bit?) but rarely use the bike - it's just too dangerous around here. Nasty, fast A roads that are pretty evil on a bike. Riders just aren't compatible.
Do I live somewhere bad for road riding or is it just too dangerous? On every ride, cars pass VERY close, get aggressive, etc.
I've also seen some horrendous riding from roadies - one group (40 somethings, all in team shirts) approached a car behind a tractor (clearly the car was about to overtake) and whacked it for not immediately pulling to the far LH side of an A road. WHY?!! Clearly the car was waiting to overtake after which it would be MUCH quicker than the bikes?
I love cycling but I just wonder how compatible our roads are for it? Many places abroad (France, Canaries, etc) just seem so much better suited - wider roads, much more sympathetic community (to cycling), etc.
I have always MTB'd a lot and love it but not road ridden loads - I bought one and trained a bit to do a local triathlon and did a couple (20th/180 on the first in the riding - think the MTBing helped a fair bit?) but rarely use the bike - it's just too dangerous around here. Nasty, fast A roads that are pretty evil on a bike. Riders just aren't compatible.
Do I live somewhere bad for road riding or is it just too dangerous? On every ride, cars pass VERY close, get aggressive, etc.
I've also seen some horrendous riding from roadies - one group (40 somethings, all in team shirts) approached a car behind a tractor (clearly the car was about to overtake) and whacked it for not immediately pulling to the far LH side of an A road. WHY?!! Clearly the car was waiting to overtake after which it would be MUCH quicker than the bikes?
I love cycling but I just wonder how compatible our roads are for it? Many places abroad (France, Canaries, etc) just seem so much better suited - wider roads, much more sympathetic community (to cycling), etc.
Edited by Vladimir on Wednesday 10th April 18:31
It's fine.
Ride sensibly, you will be Ok. People injured during racing ( not connected to the recent death etc... ) are often injured taking severe risks because it is a race, they want to win and will take more risk than normal.
My uncle is a cabbage now, struggles to talk, can walk about half a step in an awful way, just a disabled cabbage. He was knocked off his bike coming home from work at 5pm. He was doing 43mph down a busy bank with a school on it and lots of turns. An uninsured, unlicensed driver turned the corner across his path ( not a left turn, he had to give way to my uncle to turn right into a side street ).
Now, if that was me, would I be doing 43mph on a commute down a busy bank with lots of turns/people/cars on. No, I wouldn't. It doesn't mean he deserved to be knocked off, just that he was taking a risk that he shouldn't have.
That's not just a story that I reel of for the fun, I love riding my bike and ride on busy roads but respect and care are required. Riding silly, jumping reds, doing 43mph through built up, busy areas with schools on isn't really asking for respect.
Ride sensibly, you will be Ok. People injured during racing ( not connected to the recent death etc... ) are often injured taking severe risks because it is a race, they want to win and will take more risk than normal.
My uncle is a cabbage now, struggles to talk, can walk about half a step in an awful way, just a disabled cabbage. He was knocked off his bike coming home from work at 5pm. He was doing 43mph down a busy bank with a school on it and lots of turns. An uninsured, unlicensed driver turned the corner across his path ( not a left turn, he had to give way to my uncle to turn right into a side street ).
Now, if that was me, would I be doing 43mph on a commute down a busy bank with lots of turns/people/cars on. No, I wouldn't. It doesn't mean he deserved to be knocked off, just that he was taking a risk that he shouldn't have.
That's not just a story that I reel of for the fun, I love riding my bike and ride on busy roads but respect and care are required. Riding silly, jumping reds, doing 43mph through built up, busy areas with schools on isn't really asking for respect.
Vlad, I don't live in your region but I recently rode from st Ives to oakhampton. I plotted a route carefully and pretty much avoided traffic and it was a lovely ride except for:
1. The constant 20 mph north easterly headwind
2. The constant hills that just kept on coming at you
3. Nearly dying of cold riding through Minions on Bodmin Moor
It was the worst ride of my life and if anything these would be the reasons never to ride in that part of the country again!!!!!!!!!
Traffic was the least of my problems!
1. The constant 20 mph north easterly headwind
2. The constant hills that just kept on coming at you
3. Nearly dying of cold riding through Minions on Bodmin Moor
It was the worst ride of my life and if anything these would be the reasons never to ride in that part of the country again!!!!!!!!!
Traffic was the least of my problems!
In short, no. It's not too dangerous, but there are some dangerous roads, ones which are best avoided.
You can't always avoid them, so a little extra awareness is called for. Sadly, it's often not the most dangerous roads that the accidents occur on. I used to do plenty of miles on some cheeky roads, A30/A31/A303 in Hampshire, the A505 in Cambridgeshire, and some pretty dicey experiences in North Yorkshire. Touch wood, I've not been involved in anything serious on any of the major, fast 'A' roads.
The two occasions I can recall being in contact with moving vehicles were on smaller, slower roads, in built up areas. Once in Fleet High Street, when a driver chose to ignore my presence because he was desperate to get a parking space ahead of someone in the opposing lane, and that occurred at <10mph. Result = a scar on the knuckle of my left index finger where I was squeezed between his car and a parked car.
The other, when some complete cock reversed out at speed, off a grassed area, opposite a house he had been visiting, and I was forced into the opposing lane. As I passed rear of his car I put out an arm, instinctively I think, in some pointless effort to try to protect myself from a VW Golf
d
head took exception to me touching his car(he screamed that bit at me), and he then ran me off the road further along, deliberately squeezing me to the verge, which caused me to go arse over tit when my pedal clipped the kerb.
The point I'm making, I suppose, is that where you expect trouble, you are more aware and prepared to act to avoid it. My collisions occurred close to home, at the end of long rides, where my guard was probably lower than on the 'main body' of the ride, and I'd say there wouldn't have been much I could have done to avoid the deliberate 'revenge' attack. If I'd been driving, I'm sure there would have been a more serious collision, down to the other guy's poor attitude. It's possible that if I'd read the parking situation differently, I might not have placed myself where I could be hit.
You've just got to strike a balance between being assertive in your road positioning, and being considerate of drivers' understandable desire to get past you. Whether you are riding, driving, or walking on the footpath, it's all about how you conduct yourself. Constant non-verbal communication is required to negotiate your position with other road users. It takes time to develop the techniques you need, and you won't get it right 100% of the time, but you can't ride a bike without at some time needing to ride on some rather 'choice' sections of less than suitable roads.
You can't always avoid them, so a little extra awareness is called for. Sadly, it's often not the most dangerous roads that the accidents occur on. I used to do plenty of miles on some cheeky roads, A30/A31/A303 in Hampshire, the A505 in Cambridgeshire, and some pretty dicey experiences in North Yorkshire. Touch wood, I've not been involved in anything serious on any of the major, fast 'A' roads.
The two occasions I can recall being in contact with moving vehicles were on smaller, slower roads, in built up areas. Once in Fleet High Street, when a driver chose to ignore my presence because he was desperate to get a parking space ahead of someone in the opposing lane, and that occurred at <10mph. Result = a scar on the knuckle of my left index finger where I was squeezed between his car and a parked car.
The other, when some complete cock reversed out at speed, off a grassed area, opposite a house he had been visiting, and I was forced into the opposing lane. As I passed rear of his car I put out an arm, instinctively I think, in some pointless effort to try to protect myself from a VW Golf
dhead took exception to me touching his car(he screamed that bit at me), and he then ran me off the road further along, deliberately squeezing me to the verge, which caused me to go arse over tit when my pedal clipped the kerb.The point I'm making, I suppose, is that where you expect trouble, you are more aware and prepared to act to avoid it. My collisions occurred close to home, at the end of long rides, where my guard was probably lower than on the 'main body' of the ride, and I'd say there wouldn't have been much I could have done to avoid the deliberate 'revenge' attack. If I'd been driving, I'm sure there would have been a more serious collision, down to the other guy's poor attitude. It's possible that if I'd read the parking situation differently, I might not have placed myself where I could be hit.
You've just got to strike a balance between being assertive in your road positioning, and being considerate of drivers' understandable desire to get past you. Whether you are riding, driving, or walking on the footpath, it's all about how you conduct yourself. Constant non-verbal communication is required to negotiate your position with other road users. It takes time to develop the techniques you need, and you won't get it right 100% of the time, but you can't ride a bike without at some time needing to ride on some rather 'choice' sections of less than suitable roads.
A friend of mine flat refuses to ride his bike on the road, reckoning he'll immediately be flattened by a careless driver.
My cousin WAS flattened by a careless (reckless, racing) driver. He was 24 when killed.
I ride quite frequently on the road - and in a fashion my mother would not approve of. Despite the above, I don't think it's terribly dangerous. I think the onus is very much on you, the rider, to keep out of harms way. My cousin was a victim of extreme circumstance - how often do you see Vauxhall Nova's rolling across your local B roads? If often, give the cycling a miss. Otherwise, know where you are, and where the traffic will be. If you cant see any traffic, assume the cast of Carmageddon are fast approaching and be out of their way.
I read on another thread here that the key is to 'own the road'. While a bit corporate wky sounding, it's entirely true - make eye contact with the surrounding drivers and KNOW that they know you're there. Otherwise, assume they're out to murder you. After that, it's all good ; )
I'm cycling to work tomorrow - I'll feel a right tit if I get squashed by a car after posting this.
My cousin WAS flattened by a careless (reckless, racing) driver. He was 24 when killed.
I ride quite frequently on the road - and in a fashion my mother would not approve of. Despite the above, I don't think it's terribly dangerous. I think the onus is very much on you, the rider, to keep out of harms way. My cousin was a victim of extreme circumstance - how often do you see Vauxhall Nova's rolling across your local B roads? If often, give the cycling a miss. Otherwise, know where you are, and where the traffic will be. If you cant see any traffic, assume the cast of Carmageddon are fast approaching and be out of their way.
I read on another thread here that the key is to 'own the road'. While a bit corporate w
ky sounding, it's entirely true - make eye contact with the surrounding drivers and KNOW that they know you're there. Otherwise, assume they're out to murder you. After that, it's all good ; )I'm cycling to work tomorrow - I'll feel a right tit if I get squashed by a car after posting this.
I do think I employ the above techniques (I try and apply my IAM techniques to the road) and I'm not a terrified victim waiting to be totalled. I'm quite assertive, won't take any cr4p BUT you can't help it if someone screams up around a blind corner only to find me ponsing about at 25mph in my strange outfit.
Only recently moved here so probably ought to spend time planning fairly "safe" routes (which I did where we used to live) but it does seem fairly sketchy at best.
Not risk averse though; spent an hour today on my own in double overhead waves battling a nasty rip. I guess some would call that risky?!
Only recently moved here so probably ought to spend time planning fairly "safe" routes (which I did where we used to live) but it does seem fairly sketchy at best.
Not risk averse though; spent an hour today on my own in double overhead waves battling a nasty rip. I guess some would call that risky?!
Being a newbie back on the road, this used to bother me a bit too, but as above, i avoid busy roads and busy times. like anything, i think you can limit your risks.
I always give drivers waiting at roundabouts a thumbs up or a wave if someone is waiting behind me to pass. you never know, it might make them take a bit more notice in future etc...
not had any "instances" yet... but all in good time
I always give drivers waiting at roundabouts a thumbs up or a wave if someone is waiting behind me to pass. you never know, it might make them take a bit more notice in future etc...
not had any "instances" yet... but all in good time
MocMocaMoc said:
A friend of mine flat refuses to ride his bike on the road, reckoning he'll immediately be flattened by a careless driver.
I read on another thread here that the key is to 'own the road'.
I have that fear too, but luckily 70% of my ride is a shared cycle path, public park and then private estate, I only cross roads, never ride on themI read on another thread here that the key is to 'own the road'.
But it seems round here (surrey, woking-weybridge) if you try to 'own the road' (which I know is the correct way to ride) but it just seems to make drivers think that your deliberately trying to hold them up from what I see daily, that's if they see you when their not texting..
As a young teenager, I used to take part in cycle racing and spent many, many hours and miles on the road training. I believe it eventually made me a better driver and gave me a real appreciation for road surfaces etc.
Fast forward about 25 years and I would have real concerns about getting on a bike, for fear of getting rear ended by one of the ever increasing number of people who seem to drive around glued to their personal electronic devices, something I didn't have to worry about as a young lad.
Maybe I'm over reacting and being over cautious and I fo appreciate that certain road are much safer than others, but I haven't lived this long to be squashed by some pillock updating their Facebook status.
Fast forward about 25 years and I would have real concerns about getting on a bike, for fear of getting rear ended by one of the ever increasing number of people who seem to drive around glued to their personal electronic devices, something I didn't have to worry about as a young lad.
Maybe I'm over reacting and being over cautious and I fo appreciate that certain road are much safer than others, but I haven't lived this long to be squashed by some pillock updating their Facebook status.
I am 41 nearly 42. As a 12 year old I used to cycle four miles to school down the A316, the three lane 70mph (as it was in dem days) Big lorries swept past, long junctions with roads joining, it is the bit up to Sunbury before the M3 starts. I did that every school day for four years...(admittedly I occasionally took the back roads home)
A friend of my brothers in the year above was killed on the roundabout before the A316 he was 13 he had only been on the roads six weeks.
Life my friends is chance. I have had two decent motorbike accidents including some broken bones, and I fractured my spine falling off a wall.
Define too dangerous ? People accept different levels of risk (I still don't wear a helmet) I am not a hard man or boasting, I am a normal family man with three kids and wife. But life is CHANCE.
A friend of my brothers in the year above was killed on the roundabout before the A316 he was 13 he had only been on the roads six weeks.
Life my friends is chance. I have had two decent motorbike accidents including some broken bones, and I fractured my spine falling off a wall.
Define too dangerous ? People accept different levels of risk (I still don't wear a helmet) I am not a hard man or boasting, I am a normal family man with three kids and wife. But life is CHANCE.
issey23 said:
I have that fear too, but luckily 70% of my ride is a shared cycle path, public park and then private estate, I only cross roads, never ride on them
But it seems round here (surrey, woking-weybridge) if you try to 'own the road' (which I know is the correct way to ride) but it just seems to make drivers think that your deliberately trying to hold them up from what I see daily, that's if they see you when their not texting..
I ride into Woking, I find most drivers to be pretty ok about me positioning myself in front of them for the roundabouts and such like. Ride quicker But it seems round here (surrey, woking-weybridge) if you try to 'own the road' (which I know is the correct way to ride) but it just seems to make drivers think that your deliberately trying to hold them up from what I see daily, that's if they see you when their not texting..
Well, depends on your attitude to risk I guess. Although I would be terribly annoyed if I got seriously injured through the actions or negligence of someone else. If I injured myself whilst doing something I had control over, then I would have to accept that.
I used to race motorbikes, and before racing, would ride them on roads in a ridiculously dangerous manner, involving some really silly speeds. But that was all a long time ago, when I was young and therefore immortal.
Sometimes people used to ask me how I could go racing every weekend and risk serious injury or death, which did happen to a number of my competitors over the years. I used to rationalise it by saying that I didn't have a wife or any children, so my demise wouldn't really affect anyone else.
And that so many people die from silly things like falling down stairs, or just from a heart attack or whatever, that I intended to enjoy life whilst I could.
And believe me, just a single superbike race, when you're competing at a high level against other people, when all of you want to win at almost any cost, riding the bike on the limit that you're nearly crashing on each corner, but not quite....well, you feel so unbelievably alive and with every one of your senses screaming at your brain with a cacaphony of fear, adrenaline and aggression, you feel higher than any drug or stimulous the world has to offer.
So I guess it's the same with cycling in a way. I also ride both MTB and road, and yes, the roads are a bit of an eye-opener at times. But fortunately for me, I live in Hampshire, and there are many good cycling roads with little traffic, so I obviously head for those.
However, I was riding along a back street in town the other day, by Winchester college - it's a quiet, 'no through road' - but that didn't stop someone pulling straight out of one of the college's entrance arches and me hitting the front of his car! Luckily he stopped and I swerved in time that I scraped along the front with my bike, and all that happened is I tore off his number plate, and I stayed on the bike and there was no injury or damage to me.
Shows how unpredictable things can be, even when you think you're in a safe environment!
I used to race motorbikes, and before racing, would ride them on roads in a ridiculously dangerous manner, involving some really silly speeds. But that was all a long time ago, when I was young and therefore immortal.
Sometimes people used to ask me how I could go racing every weekend and risk serious injury or death, which did happen to a number of my competitors over the years. I used to rationalise it by saying that I didn't have a wife or any children, so my demise wouldn't really affect anyone else.
And that so many people die from silly things like falling down stairs, or just from a heart attack or whatever, that I intended to enjoy life whilst I could.
And believe me, just a single superbike race, when you're competing at a high level against other people, when all of you want to win at almost any cost, riding the bike on the limit that you're nearly crashing on each corner, but not quite....well, you feel so unbelievably alive and with every one of your senses screaming at your brain with a cacaphony of fear, adrenaline and aggression, you feel higher than any drug or stimulous the world has to offer.
So I guess it's the same with cycling in a way. I also ride both MTB and road, and yes, the roads are a bit of an eye-opener at times. But fortunately for me, I live in Hampshire, and there are many good cycling roads with little traffic, so I obviously head for those.
However, I was riding along a back street in town the other day, by Winchester college - it's a quiet, 'no through road' - but that didn't stop someone pulling straight out of one of the college's entrance arches and me hitting the front of his car! Luckily he stopped and I swerved in time that I scraped along the front with my bike, and all that happened is I tore off his number plate, and I stayed on the bike and there was no injury or damage to me.
Shows how unpredictable things can be, even when you think you're in a safe environment!
whereabouts in the south west are you?
Try an hour or so with an OS map and you should be able to find some good routes that dont take you onto main roads. Also search online for your local roadie clubs and see if they put details of their club rides on the web, most likely they will be quiet routes too.
I do err on the side of caution on the road, you just have to be aware of your own vulnerability but I also make sure that i ride with a certain defensive streak when i'm on a main road, particularly if I have right of way.
I'll acknowledge people if they're considerate too though, or if i hold them up for a bit, i kind of think it helps portray the myth that we are all arrogant red light jumping mentalists!!
I think the crux is the motorists being able to differentiate between cyclists and people riding a bike, knowing that one might act different in circumstances or have more experience than the other.
Try an hour or so with an OS map and you should be able to find some good routes that dont take you onto main roads. Also search online for your local roadie clubs and see if they put details of their club rides on the web, most likely they will be quiet routes too.
I do err on the side of caution on the road, you just have to be aware of your own vulnerability but I also make sure that i ride with a certain defensive streak when i'm on a main road, particularly if I have right of way.
I'll acknowledge people if they're considerate too though, or if i hold them up for a bit, i kind of think it helps portray the myth that we are all arrogant red light jumping mentalists!!
I think the crux is the motorists being able to differentiate between cyclists and people riding a bike, knowing that one might act different in circumstances or have more experience than the other.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 11th April 08:28
I'm more scared of off-road riding. Hurtling at max speed down a steep hill between trees and over rocks terrifies me
As others have already said, very much depends on the roads in question. Reduce the risk as much as you can and the rest is down to luck. I avoid A-road equivalents almost completely here in the winter, the risk of sliding off in snow and ice is large and I don't want to end up under a truck if I do fall.
Also remember that asserting your rights as a road user may be legally and morally correct but it has to be applied with regard to the real life consequences if/when it goes wrong. There's little satisfaction to be had in knowing you were right when you're lying in a hospital bed.
As others have already said, very much depends on the roads in question. Reduce the risk as much as you can and the rest is down to luck. I avoid A-road equivalents almost completely here in the winter, the risk of sliding off in snow and ice is large and I don't want to end up under a truck if I do fall.
Also remember that asserting your rights as a road user may be legally and morally correct but it has to be applied with regard to the real life consequences if/when it goes wrong. There's little satisfaction to be had in knowing you were right when you're lying in a hospital bed.
As a former semi pro I switched to all off road some time ago. At least if I cave my head in on a tree it will be my fault and not the fault of some idiots lapse of concentration.
I am aghast at the parents who think it is safe to marshall a group of wobbly kids along busy urban roads - see it all the time around Bristol. Utter cretins imo.
I am aghast at the parents who think it is safe to marshall a group of wobbly kids along busy urban roads - see it all the time around Bristol. Utter cretins imo.
Pablo; Polzeath in North Cornwall, home of the idiot Range Rover driving tourist from London!
I did get a rush in the two races I did (as part of a tri). I'd never ridden a road bike in a group, let alone raced. Quite satisfying overtaking a load of people on tricked up tri bikes on my £800 Allez! Annoyingly I injured myself quite badly on the second attempt (deep gash to foot exiting the sea swim a stage) so cramped up and didn't do too well (60/200 on the ride, 46th overall) this time and wobbled in and removed a blood filled shoe. Got a ride in an ambulance though! Many stitches.
There was some traffic but heavily marshalled. It was nice to be able to really go for it!
I did get a rush in the two races I did (as part of a tri). I'd never ridden a road bike in a group, let alone raced. Quite satisfying overtaking a load of people on tricked up tri bikes on my £800 Allez! Annoyingly I injured myself quite badly on the second attempt (deep gash to foot exiting the sea swim a stage) so cramped up and didn't do too well (60/200 on the ride, 46th overall) this time and wobbled in and removed a blood filled shoe. Got a ride in an ambulance though! Many stitches.
There was some traffic but heavily marshalled. It was nice to be able to really go for it!
Edited by Vladimir on Thursday 11th April 09:11
zax said:
I'm more scared of off-road riding...
Sort of this, too.Many years ago I had a massive 'off' on my MTB, riding alone in woodland. Very broken bike, and very, very broken me. No mobile phone (they were expensive, and bigger than house bricks back then) and no-one else around. I'd gone 'off piste' for a play, on the way home from work, so no-one knew exactly where I was, nor what time I should be home by. All the dog-walkers had gone home, it was cold, and getting dark, and if I didn't manage to 'self recover' I reckon there was a fair chance someone's Fido would have found we dead from hypothermia come the morning.
I did eventually manage to get upright, drape myself over the top tube, and shuffle to the nearest road, but it took more than 45 mins just to get off the floor, and from the pain in my chest from the effort of breathing alone, I genuinely thought I might die. X-rays the following day found I'd fractured my sternum and my C6 and C7 vertebrae, along with a host of more minor cuts and bruises. I'd also bent the rear triangle of the bike, twisted the stem, and bent a crank. I ended up in a collar for weeks, and it took 18 months of fairly intensive physio, and a 'last roll of the dice' gamble with acupuncture, for me to be anywhere near ready to ride again.
At least if you come a cropper on the road, there'll usually be someone along in a few minutes who can at least summon some assistance for you. It's not much consolation if you're lying in the road bleeding, but it beats being incapacitated and alone on a forest floor, with no idea whether help might arrive soon, or not at all.
After my accident, I was forbidden (by my wife) from owning another MTB. Ever. So I went straight out and bought myself a road bike to try to regain some of the fitness I'd lost after nearly two years of very little activity. I was well and truly bitten by the bug. As time went on, she forgot about the 'lifetime ban' from riding off road, and now I ride mostly on the road, with a little off road to add variety, I try to rein it in and ride sensibly, whether on the roads or off, and never, ever attempt a jump on the MTB. Call me a wuss if you like, but I've been there, done that, and taken the painkillers - never again
Like any dangerous sport. You tell people where you are going and when to expect you back. You take a mobile (these days). And crucially; if you go 'off piste' you rein it in a bit and dont ride at 10/10ths of your ability.
Sounds like you maybe ignored some basic safety precautions.
Theres no doubt that an accident on road is far, far more likely to be fatal.
Sounds like you maybe ignored some basic safety precautions.
Theres no doubt that an accident on road is far, far more likely to be fatal.
Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 11th April 10:02
yellowjack said:
At least if you come a cropper on the road, there'll usually be someone along in a few minutes who can at least summon some assistance for you.
Well, that depends where you live, here in Dorset you can easy cycle to roads just a few minutes out of town that see little or no regular traffic.Last summer I rode out Saturday morning for a "quick" training ride and noticed a puncture, stopped to fix it in the middle of a remote lane, noticed the brakes wheren't aligned so fixed that, sat and ate my sandwhich, took a pee behind a bush, tyre had gone down again, so swapped the tube out, ate a banana, watched some deer in the field opposite, I then noticed an hour had passed and I hadn't seen or heard a car- whichy is when my wife rang to ask where I'd got to :-) Opps.
With regards the OP, ironically I used to do more MTB'ing when I lived in London as I didn't feel safe on the roads, now I'm in the countryside full of MTB trails I tend to road ride more as its just as peaceful, I did 42miles on Saturday morning and must have seen 20 cars at most.
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