Track Day Harnesses
Discussion
Hi Guys I'm taking the leap. I've been using a CG lock for most the track days I've done, but my mate took me out recently in his Hellish MK1 Focus RS. Now I've only got a plucky 106 gti but he had some harnesses in his and after having one of those moment's that make's you re-evaluate your future, I've decided harnesses are a must so my question is how many points should I be looking at?
Is there not a debate that usually ensues that harnesses should only be used with a cage, and if you have a cage you should wear a helmet.
I can see the appeal and sense in having harnesses in a car that you take on track and I am not persuaded that the risk associated therewith outweighs the benefit.
I can see the appeal and sense in having harnesses in a car that you take on track and I am not persuaded that the risk associated therewith outweighs the benefit.
As I said, it's not my argument but it goes something like; in the event of heavy impact causing deformation a harness keeps you in place rather than moving with the deformation causing more injury. If there was a cage it wouldn't deform so much, but if there was a cage you'd bang you head very hard unless you had a helmet on etc etc.
I have only seen on accident at a track day where there was deformation, (Evo at Brands) and I suspect it is more likely on the road.
I have only seen on accident at a track day where there was deformation, (Evo at Brands) and I suspect it is more likely on the road.
Not sure I understand, that's the whole point of a restraint system and would be the same with a standard 3 point belt.
An argument I have heard is that you wouldn't be able to duck if the car rolled and the roof crushed. As above though, the standard belt would pull you almost as tightly as a harness once the pre-tensioner had fired anyway.
An argument I have heard is that you wouldn't be able to duck if the car rolled and the roof crushed. As above though, the standard belt would pull you almost as tightly as a harness once the pre-tensioner had fired anyway.
Clark3y said:
Not sure I understand, that's the whole point of a restraint system and would be the same with a standard 3 point belt.
An argument I have heard is that you wouldn't be able to duck if the car rolled and the roof crushed. As above though, the standard belt would pull you almost as tightly as a harness once the pre-tensioner had fired anyway.
dont think so.An argument I have heard is that you wouldn't be able to duck if the car rolled and the roof crushed. As above though, the standard belt would pull you almost as tightly as a harness once the pre-tensioner had fired anyway.
silverthorn2151 said:
As I said, it's not my argument but it goes something like; in the event of heavy impact causing deformation a harness keeps you in place rather than moving with the deformation causing more injury. If there was a cage it wouldn't deform so much, but if there was a cage you'd bang you head very hard unless you had a helmet on etc etc.
I`ve read that a couple of times and I still don`t understand why the suggestion is that a harness is a bad idea unless you have a cage ?Main issue with harnesses and no cage is getting the shoulder straps parallel to the ground
You see loads of shoulder straps going down to the lower rear seatbelt mounts, which will crush you in a forward impact before it stops you going forward. A cage with harness bar stops this, as does mounting a three point harness to the upper rear seat belt mount
IIRC the shoulder straps shouldn't angle down more than 15degrees from horizontal
You see loads of shoulder straps going down to the lower rear seatbelt mounts, which will crush you in a forward impact before it stops you going forward. A cage with harness bar stops this, as does mounting a three point harness to the upper rear seat belt mount
IIRC the shoulder straps shouldn't angle down more than 15degrees from horizontal
Wh00sher said:
silverthorn2151 said:
As I said, it's not my argument but it goes something like; in the event of heavy impact causing deformation a harness keeps you in place rather than moving with the deformation causing more injury. If there was a cage it wouldn't deform so much, but if there was a cage you'd bang you head very hard unless you had a helmet on etc etc.
I`ve read that a couple of times and I still don`t understand why the suggestion is that a harness is a bad idea unless you have a cage ?Were you to be in a car wearing harnesses that turned over to such an extent that the roof deformed the harness holding you tight to the seat would prevent you moving to the side to avoid the crushing action. In a nutshell, that is the objection of some, NOT me, to a harness without a cage. Read that alongside any comments I have made above and it may clarify them. The point above about the mounting points IS however a very significant one.
If you can fix them correctly my view is that there is an advantage in having harnesses in a track day car over standard belts. The vast majority of impacts are light (in comparison to road or racing). To be honest though I suspect that a good seat is probably even better still, but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up whatsoever.
I crashed our Radical last year at Snetterton, into the armco at an angle causing a violent spin as it bounced off. I was fine because of the harness but the seat isn't padded and I am still suffering with a hip problem that may possibly have been caused by the impact. I'm not sure where that takes the discussion to be honest but I have become more interested in restraint etc after the incident.
I would presume you need a 'proper' race seat (ie not a look a like with harness holes but something that would pass a FIA/MSA test) and that the belts need to be fitted as per the manufactures instructions. I would also suggest that, in the event of a roll over, the harnesses would increase the injury sustained rather than reduce it as there is no cage and the roof would be deflected onto your head while you had nowhere to go. Again theory not something I've ever tested (I have a 6 point harness with a roll over bar in the Phoenix).
jeffw said:
I would presume you need a 'proper' race seat (ie not a look a like with harness holes but something that would pass a FIA/MSA test) and that the belts need to be fitted as per the manufactures instructions. I would also suggest that, in the event of a roll over, the harnesses would increase the injury sustained rather than reduce it as there is no cage and the roof would be deflected onto your head while you had nowhere to go. Again theory not something I've ever tested (I have a 6 point harness with a roll over bar in the Phoenix).
I think the thing is that there will be some crashes when a harness is worse. And there will be some crashes when a harness will be better. So the question is, what type of crash are you planning to have?Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff