996 turbo, a few issues
996 turbo, a few issues
Author
Discussion

tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I've had my 02 996 turbo for almost a year now, its got 47k on the clock and is slightly overdue its major service so hopefully I can get some of these things sorted when its serviced but before it goes to the garage I wondered what peoples thoughts are on a few niggly issues I have.

Firstly the rattling from the back-end, maybe its just me but I feel it has got worse over time. The thing sounds awful at tickover and low rpm when moving. Admittedly the heat shields do need replacing but it sounds way worse than a rattly heat shield. Looking around various forums it seems quite normal although very poor for a car with such a price tag, I guess I'll see how it is after the major service with the shields replaced.

Then I seem to have a nasty rattle/vibration that sounds to be coming from the font end somewhere but only if you make the engine slave a little. Say you're in top gear at 1700 revs and slowly press the throttle, the rattle starts then goes away just about 2000 rpm. I wonder if its the heat shields and the sounds is travelling but it defo sounds like its coming from front passenger side, just not sure what there would be that could rattle there.

Then another funny sound the other day. I'd just been on a "spirited" run following my buddy on his bike, we parked up to have a chat so the car was sat cooling down for maybe 30 minutes, when I fired her up there was some kind of squeal/whine from the back end, I blipped the throttle a few times and it was still there, a few more blips and it went away. Didn't sound like a belt slipping, more like a dodgy bearing, is this common? It doesn't appear to have come back since but stuff like this gets me paranoid.


And finally, can anyone recommend somewhere in the UK for an oil analysis? Its probably not required but I drive it hard (road and track) and have a habit of killing engines. I don't abuse them, its always warmed up properly (generally I wait until the oil pressure has dropped to 4bar at 2000 rpm) but it does always seem to happen to me. I know people say this engine is virtually indestructible, which is why I bought a turbo and not a c4, coming from a TVR where I spent literally each day worrying about whether the engine was about to blow up or not (and yes, of course it did.... twice in 30000 miles) i'd just like to get a test done to see where I stand (that said I have no idea what i would be looking for, presence of metallic particles I presume?)


Oohh also, who knows what full geo costs at opc?





pia1361

228 posts

244 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
'Then another funny sound the other day. I'd just been on a "spirited" run following my buddy on his bike, we parked up to have a chat so the car was sat cooling down for maybe 30 minutes, when I fired her up there was some kind of squeal/whine from the back end, I blipped the throttle a few times and it was still there, a few more blips and it went away. Didn't sound like a belt slipping, more like a dodgy bearing, is this common? It doesn't appear to have come back since but stuff like this gets me paranoid.'


This may be the bearing on the water pump on the way out. Happened to me recently.

As you say though I'm sure all will be revealed when you get it in for its major service. I would certainly do it sooner rather than later.

tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
pia1361 said:
'Then another funny sound the other day. I'd just been on a "spirited" run following my buddy on his bike, we parked up to have a chat so the car was sat cooling down for maybe 30 minutes, when I fired her up there was some kind of squeal/whine from the back end, I blipped the throttle a few times and it was still there, a few more blips and it went away. Didn't sound like a belt slipping, more like a dodgy bearing, is this common? It doesn't appear to have come back since but stuff like this gets me paranoid.'


This may be the bearing on the water pump on the way out. Happened to me recently.

As you say though I'm sure all will be revealed when you get it in for its major service. I would certainly do it sooner rather than later.
That was my first thought, did you have opc fix it and how much should it cost?


richardrsc

328 posts

165 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
tezza77 said:
Then I seem to have a nasty rattle/vibration that sounds to be coming from the font end somewhere but only if you make the engine slave a little. Say you're in top gear at 1700 revs and slowly press the throttle, the rattle starts then goes away just about 2000 rpm. I wonder if its the heat shields and the sounds is travelling but it defo sounds like its coming from front passenger side, just not sure what there would be that could rattle there.
From my limited experience, and reading quite a lot of other threads, I believe the engine has a natural bit more vibration moving through 2k rpm - so anything that is prone to rattling tends to show at self at that point - rather than the 2k being a clue as to what it is. (although I have 997 non turbo, so not sure if the same applies to your engine)

I also had a couple of rattles @ 2k - one was from the sun roof (try driving with it open to see if that's it) - solved with a bit of felt tape under the flappy plastic bit, and another from where the left hand dash meets the door - more felt tape! The one from the sunroof also sounded from a drivers positions to be coming from the passenger side dash.

edit to add - And I think may may now have another one that comes and goes - possible from a speaker. Damn these things rattle!

Edited by richardrsc on Sunday 21st April 19:20


Edited by richardrsc on Sunday 21st April 19:22

lanan

814 posts

258 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I think the low rpm front vibration may be the front diff bearings

pia1361

228 posts

244 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
If it is the water pump, the total job came in at £955 including vat, a new belt and some odds and sods too. I had it done at nine excellence.

billywhiz

33 posts

206 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
I would get a good indie to listen to it

although these engines have a much vaunted aura of invicibilty my engine has just been pulled and is in pieces awaiting a new intergear as the bolts backed off at a similar mileage MY 05 the power steering pump was also replaced the casting has gone porous.You will find a few mentions about this on the US forums, that is not to say your noise is this but i would get it checked,mine was picked up luckily because the exhaust was rattling away like an old banger when that was fixed the vibration noise form the intergear was obvious no other damage incured.All for the sake of a bit of loctite and some pozlock washers Mr Porsche

Moosh

1,122 posts

251 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
Most likely heat shields making the rattling noises. (not very expensive to fix)

Whine in the back I would say is more likely to be power steering.

Water pump makes more of a scraping sound in my experience.

Best of luck and I hope its just the heat shields.

Let us know how you get on.


TOV!E

2,016 posts

264 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
tezza77 said:
I've had my 02 996 turbo for almost a year now, its got 47k on the clock and is slightly overdue its major service so hopefully I can get some of these things sorted when its serviced but before it goes to the garage I wondered what peoples thoughts are on a few niggly issues I have.

Firstly the rattling from the back-end, maybe its just me but I feel it has got worse over time. The thing sounds awful at tickover and low rpm when moving. Admittedly the heat shields do need replacing but it sounds way worse than a rattly heat shield. Looking around various forums it seems quite normal although very poor for a car with such a price tag, I guess I'll see how it is after the major service with the shields replaced.

Then I seem to have a nasty rattle/vibration that sounds to be coming from the font end somewhere but only if you make the engine slave a little. Say you're in top gear at 1700 revs and slowly press the throttle, the rattle starts then goes away just about 2000 rpm. I wonder if its the heat shields and the sounds is travelling but it defo sounds like its coming from front passenger side, just not sure what there would be that could rattle there.

Then another funny sound the other day. I'd just been on a "spirited" run following my buddy on his bike, we parked up to have a chat so the car was sat cooling down for maybe 30 minutes, when I fired her up there was some kind of squeal/whine from the back end, I blipped the throttle a few times and it was still there, a few more blips and it went away. Didn't sound like a belt slipping, more like a dodgy bearing, is this common? It doesn't appear to have come back since but stuff like this gets me paranoid.


And finally, can anyone recommend somewhere in the UK for an oil analysis? Its probably not required but I drive it hard (road and track) and have a habit of killing engines. I don't abuse them, its always warmed up properly (generally I wait until the oil pressure has dropped to 4bar at 2000 rpm) but it does always seem to happen to me. I know people say this engine is virtually indestructible, which is why I bought a turbo and not a c4, coming from a TVR where I spent literally each day worrying about whether the engine was about to blow up or not (and yes, of course it did.... twice in 30000 miles) i'd just like to get a test done to see where I stand (that said I have no idea what i would be looking for, presence of metallic particles I presume?)


Oohh also, who knows what full geo costs at opc?
Sounds like you need to see a shrink, you must be parodied

alexisn

248 posts

165 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
£955 for a water pump !!! Try Unit 11, I just paid £511 for a new pump, low temp thermo fitted (I supplied the thermo) gaskets, exhaust bolts replaced, filled and bled.

VonSenger

2,465 posts

219 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
I hope you've got warranty, that noise from the front is your diff frown happened to mine, rattles under load then disappears at higher revs. It'll give up driving the front wheels altogether soon.

Its a sealed viscous coupling so only fit for the bin I'm afraid. Its circa £3k fitted at an OPC.

Have you put the car on a rolling road by any chance?

Steviesam

1,424 posts

164 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
VonSenger said:
I hope you've got warranty, that noise from the front is your diff frown happened to mine, rattles under load then disappears at higher revs. It'll give up driving the front wheels altogether soon.

Its a sealed viscous coupling so only fit for the bin I'm afraid. Its circa £3k fitted at an OPC.

Have you put the car on a rolling road by any chance?
Just convert to 2WD if its that expensive.

Rockster

1,515 posts

190 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
tezza77 said:
I've had my 02 996 turbo for almost a year now, its got 47k on the clock and is slightly overdue its major service so hopefully I can get some of these things sorted when its serviced but before it goes to the garage I wondered what peoples thoughts are on a few niggly issues I have.

Firstly the rattling from the back-end, maybe its just me but I feel it has got worse over time. The thing sounds awful at tickover and low rpm when moving. Admittedly the heat shields do need replacing but it sounds way worse than a rattly heat shield. Looking around various forums it seems quite normal although very poor for a car with such a price tag, I guess I'll see how it is after the major service with the shields replaced.

Then I seem to have a nasty rattle/vibration that sounds to be coming from the font end somewhere but only if you make the engine slave a little. Say you're in top gear at 1700 revs and slowly press the throttle, the rattle starts then goes away just about 2000 rpm. I wonder if its the heat shields and the sounds is travelling but it defo sounds like its coming from front passenger side, just not sure what there would be that could rattle there.

Then another funny sound the other day. I'd just been on a "spirited" run following my buddy on his bike, we parked up to have a chat so the car was sat cooling down for maybe 30 minutes, when I fired her up there was some kind of squeal/whine from the back end, I blipped the throttle a few times and it was still there, a few more blips and it went away. Didn't sound like a belt slipping, more like a dodgy bearing, is this common? It doesn't appear to have come back since but stuff like this gets me paranoid.


And finally, can anyone recommend somewhere in the UK for an oil analysis? Its probably not required but I drive it hard (road and track) and have a habit of killing engines. I don't abuse them, its always warmed up properly (generally I wait until the oil pressure has dropped to 4bar at 2000 rpm) but it does always seem to happen to me. I know people say this engine is virtually indestructible, which is why I bought a turbo and not a c4, coming from a TVR where I spent literally each day worrying about whether the engine was about to blow up or not (and yes, of course it did.... twice in 30000 miles) i'd just like to get a test done to see where I stand (that said I have no idea what i would be looking for, presence of metallic particles I presume?)


Oohh also, who knows what full geo costs at opc?
Overdue for a major service? Not the best treatment for any car, let alone a Turbo. Follow this type of servicing and your habit of killing engines will continue with the Turbo's engine.

For the noise from the rear of the car, eliminate the heat shields or exhaust system (hangers) or other possible causes. In some climes and the UK qualifies heat shields/exhaust hangers really take a beating and corrosion can have things loose and noisy.

If the serpentine belt is due to be replaced be sure the tech checks all the accessory drives/belt idler/tensioner roller bearings for any play or roughness while the belt if off the engne. Pay particular attention to the water pump.

Even if the belt is not due to be replaced it might be worth the trouble to have the accessory drives and idler/tensioner bearings checked for any play or roughness.

If the noise is present at cold start one test is to start the cold engine with the belt removed. If the noise is not present this points to an accessory drive problem.

These cars are known for noise in the transmission area when the drive train is up to temp. One check is to when you hear the noise fully depress the clutch pedal. If the noise goes away the source was the input shaft and the gear sets rattling about with maybe some contribution from the clutch disc.

Avoid running the engine in top gear at 1700 rpms. These vehicles are not tractors but high performance sports cars for goodness sake.

What you are hearing, and what I hear even in lower gears at low rpms is a bit of protest noise from the cardan shaft/bearings/front diff.

Except for 1st gear, for 2nd gear I keep the rpms above 1500 and closer to 2K and for 3rd gear and higher I do not let the rpms dip below 2K.

As for the squeal/whine when starting the engine after the spirited run before you shut off the engine after the spirited run I hope you let the engine idle for 2 minutes before shutting it off.

The owners manual recommends this 2 minute idle time in order to give the turbos time to shed their considerable heat build up. If you didn't do that I'd think that noise could have been from a dry turbo bearing made that way from the heat driving away from the bearing area or cooking the oil in the bearing.

I've only analyzed the oil in my Porsches one time in over 350K miles of driving. For the Turbo, as has been the case with my Boxster, I just have the oil/filter changed every 5K miles. In the winter I run Mobil 1 0w-40. I have in the past switched to the "summer" oil, Mobil 1 5w-50. (Not a typo for 15w-50!)

VonSenger

2,465 posts

219 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
Rockster said:
Overdue for a major service? Not the best treatment for any car, let alone a Turbo. Follow this type of servicing and your habit of killing engines will continue with the Turbo's engine.

For the noise from the rear of the car, eliminate the heat shields or exhaust system (hangers) or other possible causes. In some climes and the UK qualifies heat shields/exhaust hangers really take a beating and corrosion can have things loose and noisy.

If the serpentine belt is due to be replaced be sure the tech checks all the accessory drives/belt idler/tensioner roller bearings for any play or roughness while the belt if off the engne. Pay particular attention to the water pump.

Even if the belt is not due to be replaced it might be worth the trouble to have the accessory drives and idler/tensioner bearings checked for any play or roughness.

If the noise is present at cold start one test is to start the cold engine with the belt removed. If the noise is not present this points to an accessory drive problem.

These cars are known for noise in the transmission area when the drive train is up to temp. One check is to when you hear the noise fully depress the clutch pedal. If the noise goes away the source was the input shaft and the gear sets rattling about with maybe some contribution from the clutch disc.

Avoid running the engine in top gear at 1700 rpms. These vehicles are not tractors but high performance sports cars for goodness sake.

What you are hearing, and what I hear even in lower gears at low rpms is a bit of protest noise from the cardan shaft/bearings/front diff.

Except for 1st gear, for 2nd gear I keep the rpms above 1500 and closer to 2K and for 3rd gear and higher I do not let the rpms dip below 2K.

As for the squeal/whine when starting the engine after the spirited run before you shut off the engine after the spirited run I hope you let the engine idle for 2 minutes before shutting it off.

The owners manual recommends this 2 minute idle time in order to give the turbos time to shed their considerable heat build up. If you didn't do that I'd think that noise could have been from a dry turbo bearing made that way from the heat driving away from the bearing area or cooking the oil in the bearing.

I've only analyzed the oil in my Porsches one time in over 350K miles of driving. For the Turbo, as has been the case with my Boxster, I just have the oil/filter changed every 5K miles. In the winter I run Mobil 1 0w-40. I have in the past switched to the "summer" oil, Mobil 1 5w-50. (Not a typo for 15w-50!)
Lol, you were told.

BillTheButcher

393 posts

191 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
Rockster said:
As for the squeal/whine when starting the engine after the spirited run before you shut off the engine after the spirited run I hope you let the engine idle for 2 minutes before shutting it off.

The owners manual recommends this 2 minute idle time in order to give the turbos time to shed their considerable heat build up. If you didn't do that I'd think that noise could have been from a dry turbo bearing made that way from the heat driving away from the bearing area or cooking the oil in the bearing.
I know from owning an Audi B5 RS4 a couple of years ago that you should do the last part of every journey off-boost to allow the turbos to cool. If you follow this cool-down procedure is it also necessary to let the engine idle for two minutes after parking?

tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
Rockster said:
Overdue for a major service? Not the best treatment for any car, let alone a Turbo. Follow this type of servicing and your habit of killing engines will continue with the Turbo's engine.
Its hardly thousands of miles overdue, its only just over and is already booked in to opc.

Rockster said:
If the noise is present at cold start one test is to start the cold engine with the belt removed. If the noise is not present this points to an accessory drive problem.
Hmm thats worrying because it doesnt seem to exhibit the noise from cold although I don't see it being diff, its a raspy kind of rattle, then agaim I'm not an expert but I really hope not.

Rockster said:
Avoid running the engine in top gear at 1700 rpms. These vehicles are not tractors but high performance sports cars for goodness sake.
It should run fine at 1700rpm imo, it feels totally fine, its not struggling at those RPMs.

Rockster said:
As for the squeal/whine when starting the engine after the spirited run before you shut off the engine after the spirited run I hope you let the engine idle for 2 minutes before shutting it off.
No I didn't but I do own other turbo vehicles and I know about the temperatures, I have a 200sx sat on my drive with over 120k miles (many of which are hard, 3rd gear drifting miles) on its original turbo (the engine was rebuilt tho).

The last 10 minutes of a drive before parking up is normal driving to wind the car down, this is better than just letting the thing run on stationary as you're getting airflow to assist the cool down which is far better for the car imo.

Rockster said:
I've only analyzed the oil in my Porsches one time in over 350K miles of driving. For the Turbo, as has been the case with my Boxster, I just have the oil/filter changed every 5K miles. In the winter I run Mobil 1 0w-40. I have in the past switched to the "summer" oil, Mobil 1 5w-50. (Not a typo for 15w-50!)
Where did you have this done, which was one of my original questions :P

tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
alexisn said:
£955 for a water pump !!! Try Unit 11, I just paid £511 for a new pump, low temp thermo fitted (I supplied the thermo) gaskets, exhaust bolts replaced, filled and bled.
Im OPC only unfortunately (so probably well into 4 figures I guess). Anybody else is at least 3 hours away which occasionally is fun for the trip but not practical at the mo.


tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
VonSenger said:
I hope you've got warranty, that noise from the front is your diff frown happened to mine, rattles under load then disappears at higher revs. It'll give up driving the front wheels altogether soon.

Its a sealed viscous coupling so only fit for the bin I'm afraid. Its circa £3k fitted at an OPC.

Have you put the car on a rolling road by any chance?
I've never put on a rolling road, I cant say for its previous owners though. Its an 02 so absolutely no chance of a porsche warranty unless I use someone like warranty direct but I am dubious about that kinda thing.

Edit: If it stops driving the front wheels thats fine, then it will be a proper sports car (ie RWD) biggrin


Edited by tezza77 on Tuesday 23 April 11:25

tezza77

Original Poster:

166 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
BillTheButcher said:
I know from owning an Audi B5 RS4 a couple of years ago that you should do the last part of every journey off-boost to allow the turbos to cool. If you follow this cool-down procedure is it also necessary to let the engine idle for two minutes after parking?
No, I personally try to avoid letting an engine idle unnecessarily. Look at your oil pressure when you're running idle!

pia1361

228 posts

244 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
alexisn said:
£955 for a water pump !!! Try Unit 11, I just paid £511 for a new pump, low temp thermo fitted (I supplied the thermo) gaskets, exhaust bolts replaced, filled and bled.
£511 on a 996TT ? There is quite a bit to come off. For comparrison JZM quoted £1200 - 1500.