996 GT2 Suspension modification success?

[wini]

Hi all,

Just wondered what can be realistically expected from a 996GT2 after fitting a complete after market suspension kit and geo set up? Do you end up with a vast improvement over the standard car,which would then be very competent on track? I understand the GT2 will never be as good on a circuit as a GT3 but how good can a properly set up 996 GT2 get?

Also anyone driven a 997 GT2 on a circuit? How much better than a 996 GT2 25%-40% ?



Thanks
Win

[crisisjez]

Define good.
Fun or fast?
I'd wager that a well set up GT2 driven by a capable race driver would be quicker.

[PHOENIXUK]

crisisjez said:

Define good.
Fun or fast?
I'd wager that a well set up GT2 driven by a capable race driver would be quicker.

GT2 set up correctly for track.
GT3 set up correctly for track.

Same driver.

One outcome.

[AlexA911]

A well setup GT2 would kick a Gt3's rear end.

Even my lardy turbo gives them all a very hard time.

[supermono]

You do realise they both share the same chassis?

SM

[wini]

Ok, so your Stig or Steve Rance level of driver would be quicker in a like for like well set up Gt2 over a GT3 but what about your average Pistonheads enthusiast who's had a couple of Cosworths, M3's, 993's ,964/993/996 Turbo and done approx 5-20 trackdays as opposed to 100 plus track/race days?

[Magic919]

Hedge backwards.

[DiscoColin]

supermono said:

You do realise they both share the same chassis?

Only a 997 GT3 RS shares a chassis with any GT2 and the GT2 always has extra rear mass. Which I am sure you knew, so am puzzled by the statement

[shantybeater]

Magic919 said:

Hedge backwards.

Haha

[supermono]

I've been told the 996gt3/2 are the same chassis/suspension. Sure there's weight differences but as far as I understand it, that's all.

SM

[Slippydiff]

DiscoColin said:

supermono said:

You do realise they both share the same chassis?

Only a 997 GT3 RS shares a chassis with any GT2 and the GT2 always has extra rear mass. Which I am sure you knew, so am puzzled by the statement

The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes.

OP, I've fitted Ohlins 3 way adjustables to a 996 GT2, the transformation was impressive, another ex-contributor to this forum currently runs a car with a self- tailored bespoke Eibach/Bilstein spring damper set up, again the improvements have been substantial.

Should you want any further information, do please feel free to PM me, this as it's proving an utterly futile (not to mention thankless and frustrating) task posting an opinion on any PH threads these days.

[wini]

Thanks Slippy, I'll PM you.

[DiscoColin]

Slippydiff said:

The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes.

The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same

But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here.

So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day.

[jfp]

DiscoColin said:

The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same

But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here.

So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day.

Personally, and having developed my own 996GT2 as mentioned above, I can say a well set up GT2 is basically a faster GT3. In fact mine is better than my companies 997GT3, on road and track. For sure to get the best out of it then you have to be careful with the torque (double that of a Gt3). I can't see the addition of a pair of turbos making a lot of difference weight wise, I'd suggest that's confusion between balance and throttle adjustability of n/a v's turbo

[jfp]

wini said:

Hi all,

Just wondered what can be realistically expected from a 996GT2 after fitting a complete after market suspension kit and geo set up? Do you end up with a vast improvement over the standard car,which would then be very competent on track? I understand the GT2 will never be as good on a circuit as a GT3 but how good can a properly set up 996 GT2 get?

Also anyone driven a 997 GT2 on a circuit? How much better than a 996 GT2 25%-40% ?



Thanks
Win

996GT2 can drive beautifully. Pm me if you want help sorting yours, can recommend settings and some very helpful chaps to do the work for you and then you can even learn to drive it at their on site test track...

[wini]

Hi Jfp, ok what sort of modifications would a 996 Gt2 need to make it handle well on track, would it need more money spent on it than the equivalent Gt3 to get it to handle well?

[Steve Rance]

Having driven a few well set up GT2's on track I've definitely come round to the 996GT2. On saying that, they require a different driving style to the GT3 and subsequently different set up Just replicating a Very sharp GT3 set up I think is not the way to go with a GT2. The GT3 requires a more seamless style than the GT2 which is more about deploying or unleashing the stunning torque available. If I were setting up my own GT2, I'd probably look at a softer rear end along with a few other variations of the GT3 set up. I'd also definitely fit some very decent shockers

[Slippydiff]

DiscoColin said:

Slippydiff said:

The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes.

The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same

But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here.

So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day.

I'll reiterate what I said previously. I suggest you

It's not up for debate. The chassis of the GT2 and the GT3 are the same, the shell, the subframes, the suspension components including the wishbones, uprights, toe links et all, are the same.

Furthermore, I made no mention of driving dynamics or engine characteristics. And for the record, I couldn't give a flying f*ck if you road shotgun with Walter Rohrl whilst he developed the 996 GT2, it doesn't change the fact that the basic components are the same. So let's quit the frankly pathetic name dropping, the snide comments directed at other contributors to this forum, and whilst we're on the subject, lose the pedant act too.

[jfp]

wini said:

Hi Jfp, ok what sort of modifications would a 996 Gt2 need to make it handle well on track, would it need more money spent on it than the equivalent Gt3 to get it to handle well?

Money spent on either would be similar, but I'd suggest there are similarly aged gt3's that have been left because the comparative lack of power doesn't show the shortcomings as it does with the Gt2. A nice set of dampers, softer front springs and stiffer rears (can advise rates) decent toe links and a nice set up will give a really nice compliant turn in combined with a more settled composed rear end. A properly functioning diff (again because of the engine torque) is a must, and all up you will have a stunning drive :-)

I rate PSS9 dampers and good springs as the best fast road set up you can get. Budget £4 to £5k for all parts and labour, front bushes may be required too and covered in that sum...

[DiscoColin]

jfp said:

I can't see the addition of a pair of turbos making a lot of difference weight wise, I'd suggest that's confusion between balance and throttle adjustability of n/a v's turbo

Turbos, larger wheels and tyres, a tiny bit more bodywork, intercoolers and plumbing. Only roughly 50kg according to the book, but all of it on or aft of the rear axle. Broadly equivalent to having a smallish person sitting on the rear deck lid.

But according to SlippyDiff (no - I neither ran over his cat nor had relations with his wife) it is otherwise all the same components (other than those that govern compliance and body control, which obviously don't matter) and makes no difference

That said - I do agree with jfp's points that making a GT2 handle properly ought to fall into the same ballpark cost-wise as similar upgrades to a 3 and that once properly resolved it will be a similar (if faster) tool in the right hands. It will take more talent to properly exploit though.

Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 26th April 00:52