Joint ownership of a track day car
Discussion
Along with two other friends we are considering buying a track day car between the three of us. We are looking at spending about £30K on one plus trailor etc and I'd like to hear if anyone else has done this and if it has worked out o.k. or ended up with handbags at dawn.
Should we enter into a written agreement about damage, use, and what is the best plan over ownership title.
Should we enter into a written agreement about damage, use, and what is the best plan over ownership title.
We have done this (ie with a couple of mates) on two track cars and it worked out fine, best if one person is responsible for insuring it and getting all the work done and then costs split 3 ways on everything.
Not sure if I would do it on a high value car ours were low value, a £30k car could as easily get destroyed as a £3k car on track, if you have proper track insurance for 3 people using it the excess will be huge (like 50%) and expensive. I would try it with a budget car first and see how you all get on before spending fortunes.
Not sure if I would do it on a high value car ours were low value, a £30k car could as easily get destroyed as a £3k car on track, if you have proper track insurance for 3 people using it the excess will be huge (like 50%) and expensive. I would try it with a budget car first and see how you all get on before spending fortunes.
I've not actually done it, but a trailer owning friend of mine and I discussed this. However our plan was to go in a lot cheaper with the track car, although still buying something already track-prepared. We were thinking of an Alfa 75 V6 that was up for sale at the time, and would then put it in one of our names and split all the bills. If anything happened it, we wouldn't be down a massive wedge of cash, plus would hopefully be able to transfer many of the expensive bits into another car
Didn't happen only because I moved country, but still think it's a good plan
Didn't happen only because I moved country, but still think it's a good plan
I crashed a mates track car once, spent the next week taking tyres to the garage to get them fitted (as couldn't carry more than a couple at the time in the Mx5) to the wheels after the gravel trap had had its effect on them and lodged stones in between the rim. Think I bought him a pint as well (that bit may be a lie, I can't remember). And all this was the day before his wedding.
He wasn't too pissed off, much. His dad (the passenger as we flew off the track) thought it was hilarious!
That was a £700 car not 30 grand worth mind. Then the outcome may have been different.
He wasn't too pissed off, much. His dad (the passenger as we flew off the track) thought it was hilarious!
That was a £700 car not 30 grand worth mind. Then the outcome may have been different.
Edited by em177 on Wednesday 24th April 17:47
everything is fine till the big bills come in and then you learn the truly parlous state of your (soon to be ex-)friends finances.
"the box has gone you say, £15k replacement cost. Can't we fit one from an old granada, i can't put my hand on £5k right away, do you mind paying and i will give you £500/month, but you drove it more than me" ad infinitum
Unless you all agree to pay into a significant, non refundable "battle fund" of at least £10k before it turns a wheel and never let the balance drop below the cost of a replacement engine/box i can't see it ending well.
that and crystal clear paperwork, do NOTHING on the strength of a handshake.
I am currently a part owner of a cheap mx5 track car, i don't care where it is or what condition it is in, i haven't driven it for 2-3 years - good job because i happened to see it under a sheet at a track 200 miles from my house one time. if it were a £30k car i would be doing my nut unless it was under my control.
in short, bad idea, just get 3 x cheaper cars, you will have easily as much fun
"the box has gone you say, £15k replacement cost. Can't we fit one from an old granada, i can't put my hand on £5k right away, do you mind paying and i will give you £500/month, but you drove it more than me" ad infinitum
Unless you all agree to pay into a significant, non refundable "battle fund" of at least £10k before it turns a wheel and never let the balance drop below the cost of a replacement engine/box i can't see it ending well.
that and crystal clear paperwork, do NOTHING on the strength of a handshake.
I am currently a part owner of a cheap mx5 track car, i don't care where it is or what condition it is in, i haven't driven it for 2-3 years - good job because i happened to see it under a sheet at a track 200 miles from my house one time. if it were a £30k car i would be doing my nut unless it was under my control.
in short, bad idea, just get 3 x cheaper cars, you will have easily as much fun
Myself and a mate have a joint track day car. It's a bogo looking mk2 Golf, coil overs, stripped, 888's and a rebuilt 1.8t with 350hp.
Its a hoot to drive, easily the fastest thing I own and if we crash it, it's £1500 tops to find another mk2 shell.
We are both quite mechanically sympathetic, both heal and toe, and have very similar driving styles. I know guys I wouldn't go near a shared car with because of their driving style.
We split all the bills for maintenance and mechanicals, if a turbo or gearbox go, it's a shared cost. If one of us bins it, you find a new shell/bent parts and we spend a few weekends swapping everything over.
Its a hoot to drive, easily the fastest thing I own and if we crash it, it's £1500 tops to find another mk2 shell.
We are both quite mechanically sympathetic, both heal and toe, and have very similar driving styles. I know guys I wouldn't go near a shared car with because of their driving style.
We split all the bills for maintenance and mechanicals, if a turbo or gearbox go, it's a shared cost. If one of us bins it, you find a new shell/bent parts and we spend a few weekends swapping everything over.
LouD86 said:
Hi David,
Did it in the past with a few friends, worked ok. To start with, idea maybe on a lesser value car, that way, if things dont work out, you may be 1-2k out of pocket each, as apposed to 10k? Just a thought.
Also, what were you thinking of car wise? 911??
Thinking more along the lines of a Lotus 2-11 or KTM Did it in the past with a few friends, worked ok. To start with, idea maybe on a lesser value car, that way, if things dont work out, you may be 1-2k out of pocket each, as apposed to 10k? Just a thought.
Also, what were you thinking of car wise? 911??
BIRMA said:
LouD86 said:
Hi David,
Did it in the past with a few friends, worked ok. To start with, idea maybe on a lesser value car, that way, if things dont work out, you may be 1-2k out of pocket each, as apposed to 10k? Just a thought.
Also, what were you thinking of car wise? 911??
Thinking more along the lines of a Lotus 2-11 or KTM Did it in the past with a few friends, worked ok. To start with, idea maybe on a lesser value car, that way, if things dont work out, you may be 1-2k out of pocket each, as apposed to 10k? Just a thought.
Also, what were you thinking of car wise? 911??
Three of us share the Radical. One mate tends to bankroll it through the year and then we split it up and settle up.
Gives endless opportunities for piss taking when you share a car, and if its a Radical there are more of you to fiddle with until its broken.
I crashed it at Snetterton last summer. That was my bill to sort out, or at least it wil be when we reckon up. It can work, but you need to be good friends who are happy to be businesslike about the whole thing without taking offence.
Gives endless opportunities for piss taking when you share a car, and if its a Radical there are more of you to fiddle with until its broken.
I crashed it at Snetterton last summer. That was my bill to sort out, or at least it wil be when we reckon up. It can work, but you need to be good friends who are happy to be businesslike about the whole thing without taking offence.
silverthorn2151 said:
Three of us share the Radical. One mate tends to bankroll it through the year and then we split it up and settle up.
Gives endless opportunities for piss taking when you share a car, and if its a Radical there are more of you to fiddle with until its broken.
I crashed it at Snetterton last summer. That was my bill to sort out, or at least it wil be when we reckon up. It can work, but you need to be good friends who are happy to be businesslike about the whole thing without taking offence.
Thanks for the constructive answer, so we should have an agreement in place whereby he who bends mends, end of. We are mature guys who could probably afford to buy one each at £30K but I think its just better to share costs and driving if it can work. I'm guessing open pitlane days are the ones to go for.Gives endless opportunities for piss taking when you share a car, and if its a Radical there are more of you to fiddle with until its broken.
I crashed it at Snetterton last summer. That was my bill to sort out, or at least it wil be when we reckon up. It can work, but you need to be good friends who are happy to be businesslike about the whole thing without taking offence.
Why not just get a grand of MR2/MX5 each and just have a laugh. I've had more fun in track in my MR2 than things worth 10x its value, including Caterhams and suchlike. A lot of that's due to having the confidence to drive it at ten tenths, you're not going to want to push a £30k car to its limits in the same way.
BIRMA said:
Thanks for the constructive answer, so we should have an agreement in place whereby he who bends mends, end of. We are mature guys who could probably afford to buy one each at £30K but I think its just better to share costs and driving if it can work. I'm guessing open pitlane days are the ones to go for.
I think so yes. If one bends it through error, like me, it creates what you might call an unnecessary expense. That does not mean to say that the every instance of damage while in the 'ownership' of one or other of us is our responsibility. When the gearbox broke while a mate was driving, shared bill; when an upright broke while I was driving, shared bill and so on.One of us has a large unit at his home where we keep the car(s). That's where the box trailer is and so on. He tows it to the circuits and all costs associated get added to the pot. Tow vehicle fuel, track day costs, fuel on the day and when we go to Le Mans Bugatti for a 2 day trip all costs including travel and accomm are added.
Not bar bills though! The system inevitably relies on one guy taking control and inevitably giving up more time and so on. I'm certain that not all costs actually get included but we share those each just on a mates basis.
When at circuit we take it in turns, we go out with each other for rides, friends come along and so do a lot of our respective clients. We could each have our own car, we could blat round all day each in something, but we'd hardly speak to each other, would leave a lot of people hanging around in the pits and we'd end up knack erred at the end of the day. I totally accept that for others our model of the day isn't what they are looking for. It works for us, we play at being a team really. We have done a lot of charity things associated with this as well where rides in the at are sold as auction prizes at functions we are involved in. That is sometimes with us driving and sometimes with A well known driver at the wheel.
All in all CRAB Motorsport is a lot of fun for us all and is more fun than 3 separate cars.
I am sure this is the way to go, we have each had trackday cars or at least cars that we have used for track days and enjoyed the days in the past. The idea of buying one between us does as you have pointed out have advantages for us, when we meet up we always complain we don't keep in contact enough and this idea will change that for the better. As we all run our own companies we can and will make the time to do mid week events plus as you say our clients might like the idea of being scared to death occasionally. I'm going to have a word with them having read through your experience to see if we should press the go button. We have more or less agreed on a Lotus 2-11.
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