Towing Classic Cars - Learn from my mistake
Discussion
Just figured I’d post this so that hopefully you may learn from my mistakes!
A couple of years back I purchased a 1964 Alfa Romeo Giulia 101 Spider. It had been standing for around 5 years. It didn’t run, although could be pushed around quite happily and didn’t appear to have any binding brakes.
I coupled it up to my A-Frame towing dolly (the type that connects to the front axle) so all 4 wheels are on the ground. I’ve towed multiple cars using one of these devices in the past so wasn’t troubled by the prospect. I had around 18 miles to tow it to get me home and I stopped at regular intervals (several miles at a time) to check the securing chains
Around 6 miles from home, going down a county lane the guy behind me was flashing me like mad, so figuring something wasn’t quite right I pulled over. The N/S tyre was on fire.
Basically the caliper was binding slightly so during the journey, as the wheel rotated the brake disc heated up and expanded and then …. wham….the caliper goes up in flames, taking the tyre with it and the rubber brake hoses.
Obviously being a level headed bloke…. I panicked as I only had a litre of water in the back seat and this car was one of only 499 RHD models ever built (of which only around 12 remain….. and it wasn’t insured). . So …. I threw the water over tyre ….. the fire went out … all well and good. A split second….the disc glowed red and set it alight again.
The guy who had stopped me didn’t have any water either…. so we kinda just looked at each other for a while…. then looked at the car who’s tyre was now quite happily ablaze.
Fortunately for me…… very fortunately….. I was opposite a farm’s court yard and literally, 50 feet away was an outside tap, my saving grace. After running backwards and forwards for a while with my litre bottle full of water …… the flames were out and the disc was cooled.
Some years on ….. the work on the Alfa is progressing as a snail’s pace with the discs having been reground and the original caliper being rebuilt by Big Red in Worcester.
My advise: ALWAYS carry a fire extinguisher and expect the unexpected. I have several fire extinguishers in my workshop …. not overly helpful when on the road! I also now have fire extinguishers in all of my cars, running or not and several large bottle of water!
The A-Frame is no more…. I sold that and purchased a towing dolly, so only the rear wheels are on the ground. If I had space for a trailer, I’d get one of those instead.
These cars are drop dead gorgeous and I've wanted one for years, never thinking I would find one. I was lucky. It could have been so much worse.
A couple of years back I purchased a 1964 Alfa Romeo Giulia 101 Spider. It had been standing for around 5 years. It didn’t run, although could be pushed around quite happily and didn’t appear to have any binding brakes.
I coupled it up to my A-Frame towing dolly (the type that connects to the front axle) so all 4 wheels are on the ground. I’ve towed multiple cars using one of these devices in the past so wasn’t troubled by the prospect. I had around 18 miles to tow it to get me home and I stopped at regular intervals (several miles at a time) to check the securing chains
Around 6 miles from home, going down a county lane the guy behind me was flashing me like mad, so figuring something wasn’t quite right I pulled over. The N/S tyre was on fire.
Basically the caliper was binding slightly so during the journey, as the wheel rotated the brake disc heated up and expanded and then …. wham….the caliper goes up in flames, taking the tyre with it and the rubber brake hoses.
Obviously being a level headed bloke…. I panicked as I only had a litre of water in the back seat and this car was one of only 499 RHD models ever built (of which only around 12 remain….. and it wasn’t insured). . So …. I threw the water over tyre ….. the fire went out … all well and good. A split second….the disc glowed red and set it alight again.
The guy who had stopped me didn’t have any water either…. so we kinda just looked at each other for a while…. then looked at the car who’s tyre was now quite happily ablaze.
Fortunately for me…… very fortunately….. I was opposite a farm’s court yard and literally, 50 feet away was an outside tap, my saving grace. After running backwards and forwards for a while with my litre bottle full of water …… the flames were out and the disc was cooled.
Some years on ….. the work on the Alfa is progressing as a snail’s pace with the discs having been reground and the original caliper being rebuilt by Big Red in Worcester.
My advise: ALWAYS carry a fire extinguisher and expect the unexpected. I have several fire extinguishers in my workshop …. not overly helpful when on the road! I also now have fire extinguishers in all of my cars, running or not and several large bottle of water!
The A-Frame is no more…. I sold that and purchased a towing dolly, so only the rear wheels are on the ground. If I had space for a trailer, I’d get one of those instead.
These cars are drop dead gorgeous and I've wanted one for years, never thinking I would find one. I was lucky. It could have been so much worse.
The legality of the towing dollies, whether they be A-Frame or wheeled dollies and maximum towing weights is a whole different topic in itself, let alone any concessions on recovering broken down vehicles, so ideally I don’t want this thread to become blurred as we enter that conversation.
Although to answer the former, yes…… you need a whole load of water to put out a tyre fire and cool that glowing disc. I wouldn't recommend it.
Although to answer the former, yes…… you need a whole load of water to put out a tyre fire and cool that glowing disc. I wouldn't recommend it.
devs said:
The A-Frame is no more…. I sold that and purchased a towing dolly, so only the rear wheels are on the ground. If I had space for a trailer, I’d get one of those instead.
Lovely car! 
If you have space to store the car, you have space for a trailer: simply park the car on the trailer.
Of course you might need to implement some form of security to stop the trailer simply being towed away.
Glad to hear you got it out in the end. Lucky escape definitely.
A friend of mine had a car catch fire in his work car park a couple of weeks ago. Once they had put out the fire (the car was destroyed), the fire brigade officer pointed out that any fire you can't put out with a single fire extinguisher you should walk away from. By the time you have located and returned with another extinguisher, the fire will most likely be bigger than the one you just failed to put with the first extinguisher.
A friend of mine had a car catch fire in his work car park a couple of weeks ago. Once they had put out the fire (the car was destroyed), the fire brigade officer pointed out that any fire you can't put out with a single fire extinguisher you should walk away from. By the time you have located and returned with another extinguisher, the fire will most likely be bigger than the one you just failed to put with the first extinguisher.
tapkaJohnD said:
A warning with towing dollies.
The angle of dangle puts all the gear box oil to the back, and some classics rely on splash lubrication of the gears. The oil starved gears are driven by the rear wheels. I've heard of prolonged tows causing gearbox damage.
John
When towing any distance I always put the driven wheels on the dolly.....The angle of dangle puts all the gear box oil to the back, and some classics rely on splash lubrication of the gears. The oil starved gears are driven by the rear wheels. I've heard of prolonged tows causing gearbox damage.
John
Hey Turbo Blue, gorgeous Alfa. They are very pretty cars. Inspired ... so MUST be the road by June ..... (promise to myself) as a rolling road legal resto (whilst I concentrate on my 1954 TR2 project), then I'll pay it the proper care & attention it deserves.
Whilst on the whole catching fire topic .... was reading about this very sad case in Classic Car Weekly the other day ...... £750K worth of Lamborghini catching fire.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lamborghini-miur...
Whilst on the whole catching fire topic .... was reading about this very sad case in Classic Car Weekly the other day ...... £750K worth of Lamborghini catching fire.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lamborghini-miur...
tapkaJohnD said:
A warning with towing dollies.
The angle of dangle puts all the gear box oil to the back, and some classics rely on splash lubrication of the gears. The oil starved gears are driven by the rear wheels. I've heard of prolonged tows causing gearbox damage.
John
Nearly right. Any towed car with driving wheels turning has the gearbox mainshaft spinning round. However the input shaft, (through the clutch) is stationary. The end result is the bearing between the two is starved of oil as it usually relies on the input shaft turning for lubrication. So yes, prolonged towing can cause gearbox damage - (and in fact differential damage as well for similar reasons). The angle of dangle puts all the gear box oil to the back, and some classics rely on splash lubrication of the gears. The oil starved gears are driven by the rear wheels. I've heard of prolonged tows causing gearbox damage.
John
caziques said:
Nearly right. Any towed car with driving wheels turning has the gearbox mainshaft spinning round. However the input shaft, (through the clutch) is stationary. The end result is the bearing between the two is starved of oil as it usually relies on the input shaft turning for lubrication. So yes, prolonged towing can cause gearbox damage - (and in fact differential damage as well for similar reasons).
AND!...some old integral(all in one) front wheel drive gearbox`s are only lubricated when the engine is running.The old Peugeot 104/Talbot Samba has shell bearings in the gear box that are pressure fed with engine oil.If towed these shafts turn but are completely dry of oil because that unit is "laid back" !! Edited by Old Merc on Sunday 28th April 11:10
These things are great to have reminders about from time to time. My old MX-5 started pouring smoke out of a rear wheel one day last year thanks to a binding caliper. Fortunately spotted/smelt in time but not before the paint had burned off the alloy wheel! Similar but less serious a couple of years prior with a failed handbrake cable on my Saab.
Another towing thing - if the car has an LSD it needs special consideration. Had a long chat with the RAC man about my MX-5 as it was a Eunos import with TorSen LSD - but his "book" was very vague. In the end, towed with all 4 wheels on ground and engine running for the PAS (clutch fault that time!).
I've kept extinguishers in my fun cars for years, hope I never have to use them.
Another towing thing - if the car has an LSD it needs special consideration. Had a long chat with the RAC man about my MX-5 as it was a Eunos import with TorSen LSD - but his "book" was very vague. In the end, towed with all 4 wheels on ground and engine running for the PAS (clutch fault that time!).
I've kept extinguishers in my fun cars for years, hope I never have to use them.
Gorgeous Alfa - love that shape.
Back in 1983, I'd finished putting new sills both sides on my MGB and welding up the floors etc - I then took most of the paint back to bare metal, put on some new rear wings and a rear valance. I then sprayed it in red primer, then undercoat, rubebd that down and with no better way to get it 10 miles into Oxford for its respray, decided to ask my mate to tow me with his 2200 Princess.
We attached the rope and off we went. Me in a car with no windscreen, no seat, no lights fitted, so no brake lights etc, just a shell, in undercoat, on wheels. back then, I didn't think anything of it being young and daft. Nor did he. As we hurtled down the A34 into Oxford - dual carriageway - at about 40mph - the string with which I had tied the bonnet down (catch had been removed), broke free and the whole things reared back up towards me, so I had to brake quickly while sitting on the floorplan, while also jumping up to stop the bonnet from completely pointing towards the back of the car, all the while being unable to see my mate in front ...
Bonnet was a bit twisted and buckled where the hinges were - and we retied some more string to hold it down and went a lot slower on the remaining few miles. Luckily the bodyshop guys managed to sort it as if it had never happened. Respray cost for the whole car in those days - £260.
30 years on, would I even THINK about doing it like that - no way. Thing is, my dad towed me back home behind his Cavalier once the spray job had been done ... mad! Dread to think how many offences I was committing. Dont think it was MOT'd, insured or taxed at the time - with no lights etc. Instant ban job nowadays I would think.
Back in 1983, I'd finished putting new sills both sides on my MGB and welding up the floors etc - I then took most of the paint back to bare metal, put on some new rear wings and a rear valance. I then sprayed it in red primer, then undercoat, rubebd that down and with no better way to get it 10 miles into Oxford for its respray, decided to ask my mate to tow me with his 2200 Princess.
We attached the rope and off we went. Me in a car with no windscreen, no seat, no lights fitted, so no brake lights etc, just a shell, in undercoat, on wheels. back then, I didn't think anything of it being young and daft. Nor did he. As we hurtled down the A34 into Oxford - dual carriageway - at about 40mph - the string with which I had tied the bonnet down (catch had been removed), broke free and the whole things reared back up towards me, so I had to brake quickly while sitting on the floorplan, while also jumping up to stop the bonnet from completely pointing towards the back of the car, all the while being unable to see my mate in front ...
Bonnet was a bit twisted and buckled where the hinges were - and we retied some more string to hold it down and went a lot slower on the remaining few miles. Luckily the bodyshop guys managed to sort it as if it had never happened. Respray cost for the whole car in those days - £260.
30 years on, would I even THINK about doing it like that - no way. Thing is, my dad towed me back home behind his Cavalier once the spray job had been done ... mad! Dread to think how many offences I was committing. Dont think it was MOT'd, insured or taxed at the time - with no lights etc. Instant ban job nowadays I would think.
Regulations back then were more relaxed - harking back to days of traction engines - in second car you would have been classed as 'steersman' with no requirement for a driving license, that was held by 'driver/stoker/engineer' - can't remember official title. So to be legal back then all you needed was same as what would be required for a trailer - so add insurance cover for a trailer and a rear number plate and lights/brake lights.
dycecooper said:
What years Monte was that taken? I have done it twice
Top was 1999 and bottom 2000 I think. You'll know how hard these rallies are on the cars as you have done it; the Alfa needed a gearbox rebuild at the end of the first and a short-engine rebuild after the second. it might look fun and it was immense but by the time of the ice ring trial the heater had packed up, the wipers weren't working, there was ice on the inside and outside of the windscreen and it was bitterly cold. We'd even had to fit the snow chains at one point to get off the mountain.I'm looking forward to doing again - the next is in 2014 but I not sure we have the time to devote to it yet.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff