You are at 35,000 feet over the Atlantic when suddenly...
Discussion
..the aircraft - let's make it a B747 - loses its nav and comms systems, GPS, inertial navigation or whatever, and has no radio links with the ground or other aircraft.
Would a modern crew have the knowledge and skills to fly safely to a suitable airfield based on dead reckoning, a compass and a clock?
Would a modern crew have the knowledge and skills to fly safely to a suitable airfield based on dead reckoning, a compass and a clock?
A totally unrealistic scenario, in my opinion. It is highly unlikely that every single navaid, radio etc on the aircraft would fail like that.
Even IF it did, if at night and above the clouds, I bet any competent aircrew could easily work out what direction they were flying by looking at the stars. Even in daylight, knowing the time and the position of the sun would be a great help.
Finally, they could always ask if any of the passengers or crew had any sort of hand held sat nav device in their hand luggage.
Even IF it did, if at night and above the clouds, I bet any competent aircrew could easily work out what direction they were flying by looking at the stars. Even in daylight, knowing the time and the position of the sun would be a great help.
Finally, they could always ask if any of the passengers or crew had any sort of hand held sat nav device in their hand luggage.
This one crashed into a mountain during the day in terrain the crew had flown many times, they very easily got disorientated - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_B%C3%A1rbara_Ai... They hadn't done their pre-flight checks and took off with inoperative navigation equipment.
Ayahuasca said:
Eric mate, it's not meant to be a likely scenario - just interesting to know if modern crew still have the old skills... and no, no passenger GPS gadgets allowed either - thanks for mentioning them!
Looking out the window helps.If a modern airliner looses so much "stuff" - it's probably heading in one direction only i.e - down.
ked up old rusty bike Eric. Can't you, just for once, lighten up and go with the chuffing flow without referring to your Brooke Bond Book of the Air and reply with something vaguely different to "Actually I think you'll find......."?Ayahuasca said:
..the aircraft - let's make it a B747 - loses its nav and comms systems, GPS, inertial navigation or whatever, and has no radio links with the ground or other aircraft.
Would a modern crew have the knowledge and skills to fly safely to a suitable airfield based on dead reckoning, a compass and a clock?
More likely to be an airbus ...Would a modern crew have the knowledge and skills to fly safely to a suitable airfield based on dead reckoning, a compass and a clock?
So I am flying along and lose my screens, radios and autopilot. Contrary to popular belief the aircraft will not dive down out of the air.
I take it the engines are still operating.
All airliners have a simple Magnetic Compass, as long as our pilot does not panic the aircraft will stay fairly straight and level.
You have a Standby Horizontal Situation Indicator, this shows you the position of the Aircraft in relation to the ground, you should have about 45 mins of power to it (it has its own battery). A Standby Altimeter and Standby Airspeed Indicator (Both of these are pressure operated, so no external power needed.
So, one pilot flys, the other gets the charts out, looks on the plog at last waypoint and start to figgure out where you are.
Remember you are already on the right course, heading in approx the right way.
So yes you could fly to your destination and if you followed Radio Faliure procedures should be fine.
Just to mention, my day job is a B737
I take it the engines are still operating.
All airliners have a simple Magnetic Compass, as long as our pilot does not panic the aircraft will stay fairly straight and level.
You have a Standby Horizontal Situation Indicator, this shows you the position of the Aircraft in relation to the ground, you should have about 45 mins of power to it (it has its own battery). A Standby Altimeter and Standby Airspeed Indicator (Both of these are pressure operated, so no external power needed.
So, one pilot flys, the other gets the charts out, looks on the plog at last waypoint and start to figgure out where you are.
Remember you are already on the right course, heading in approx the right way.
So yes you could fly to your destination and if you followed Radio Faliure procedures should be fine.
Just to mention, my day job is a B737
Despite the fact that it's an impossible scenario. The answer for me is yes, if going west, keep going until you reach Canada/newfound land and then follow the coast south. If going east, wait 'till you get to Ireland and decide whether you want to go to Dublin or Shannon. Over the North Atlantic is easy really as most traffic is on the parallel NAT tracks. So there are other aircraft all around you heading in the same direction.
In Frederick Forsyths' book 'The Shepherd' the pilot of a Vampire jet finds himself in the exact scenario the OP describes.
According to FF the protocol is to fly staight for 2mins then turn left 120deg, fly for 2mins more, turn left 120deg again, rinse and repeat. Basically fly in triangles so your odd flight path gets noticed by Air Traffic Control who would then send up/divert an aircraft to shepherd you home.
As a former fighter pilot I imagine he knew what he was talking about but I have no idea how relevent it would be in this day and age.
According to FF the protocol is to fly staight for 2mins then turn left 120deg, fly for 2mins more, turn left 120deg again, rinse and repeat. Basically fly in triangles so your odd flight path gets noticed by Air Traffic Control who would then send up/divert an aircraft to shepherd you home.
As a former fighter pilot I imagine he knew what he was talking about but I have no idea how relevent it would be in this day and age.
Tango13 said:
In Frederick Forsyths' book 'The Shepherd' the pilot of a Vampire jet finds himself in the exact scenario the OP describes.
According to FF the protocol is to fly staight for 2mins then turn left 120deg, fly for 2mins more, turn left 120deg again, rinse and repeat. Basically fly in triangles so your odd flight path gets noticed by Air Traffic Control who would then send up/divert an aircraft to shepherd you home.
As a former fighter pilot I imagine he knew what he was talking about but I have no idea how relevent it would be in this day and age.
And the triangle route is what summons up a ghostly Mosquito?According to FF the protocol is to fly staight for 2mins then turn left 120deg, fly for 2mins more, turn left 120deg again, rinse and repeat. Basically fly in triangles so your odd flight path gets noticed by Air Traffic Control who would then send up/divert an aircraft to shepherd you home.
As a former fighter pilot I imagine he knew what he was talking about but I have no idea how relevent it would be in this day and age.
Several years ago, about 1000 miles out over the Ogg-splash at night, we took a Lightning Strike. Everything went down: gyro-compasses, INAS (Inertial Nav), LORAN (long range nav aid), OMEGA (long range nav aid). Radios were no use since UHF and VHF are line of sight, HF was useless owing to the proximity of thunderstorms. Even the E2B Stand-by compass sat uselessly spinning in circles.
Nav put the sun-gun up and we used his astro for heading information.
Nav put the sun-gun up and we used his astro for heading information.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Saturday 27th April 16:33
Tango13 said:
According to FF the protocol is to fly straight for 2mins then turn left 120deg, fly for 2mins more, turn left 120deg again, rinse and repeat.
That is still taught today for 'total radio failure above cloud'. However it does rather predispose having good heading information.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff