RE: Oil burners not worth buying
RE: Oil burners not worth buying
Friday 1st October 2004

Oil burners not worth buying

56,373 miles before a diesel car shows savings


Buying a shopping car? Diesel's only worth it for high milers, says new research. Used car buyers tempted by frugal diesels could have to do up to 56,373 miles before reaping the financial benefit of the fuel savings they believe are on offer, with high fuel tax a significant factor. 

New research by used car magazine, WiseBuyers, explodes the myth that choosing a diesel automatically drives down the cost of motoring compared to a petrol alternative. On average, the cost of buying a used diesel is between 8-12 per cent higher than its petrol equivalent. And service costs for some diesel models are higher, too. As a result owners need to complete thousands of miles before they break even.

WiseBuyer’s data shows that a twelve-month-old Ford Focus 1.8 TDCi LX typically costs £1,150 more on the forecourt than its 1.6 LX petrol alternative. Although the former records an average 53.3 mpg compared to 40.9 mpg for the petrol version, the actual fuel cost saving is only 2.04 pence per mile travelled. So owners would need to complete 56,373 miles before fuel savings recoup the extra cost of buying a diesel.

Even a small city car, the Volkswagen Lupo 1.4 TDi PD Sport, which costs just £350 more than its 1.4 Sport petrol cousin, needs 14,286 miles to be covered before you start benefiting from the more economical diesel engine.

Purchasing a seven-seater Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDi Zetec diesel would demand the owner completing 43,237 miles before matching the £1,950 cheaper 2.3 Zetec petrol equivalent.

Nic Barfield, editor of WiseBuyer’s, says that too few motorists hunting for a used car take into consideration the true cost of buying a diesel. "For someone who only does 10,000 miles a year, a diesel may not be the best option. As the research shows, it could take up to five years of average motoring to start feeling the financial benefit of the fuel savings."

Diesel sales have accelerated over the past five years, from 14.1 per cent market share in 2000 to an estimated 33 per cent in 2004, levels similar to those consistently enjoyed in the rest of Europe.

However, diesel fuel on the Continent is significantly cheaper, meaning that car price differences are eroded very quickly," explains Barfield. "Manufacturers have done a fantastic job in advancing diesel technology and improving its appeal. Unfortunately, a great deal of their good work is undone by the tax policy of the British Government."

Author
Discussion

squirrelz

Original Poster:

1,186 posts

293 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Isn't this slightly flawed? If a used diesel cost more to buy, don't you also get more money back when you sell it?

Ruxpin

324 posts

267 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Also people don't just buy diesels for the fuel economy.

Personally i prefer them to petrols for motorway work and effortless cruising. The economy is just a bonus.

adey

16 posts

257 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Whether you get money back when you sell it depends on how long you keep the vehicle. In general, the longer you keep it, the more it's resale value goes down, so the less you recoup. Ultimately at the end-of-life point, the amount you recoup tends to zero as the mathematicians would say.

Vladd

8,136 posts

287 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
As I've always said:

"DIESELS ARE RUBBISH"

The best bit of news I've read for weeks.

Robbo SPS

195 posts

256 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
One of my cars is a diesel. It pulls my trtailer when required and is awesome. No burning clutches to get the power . Its awesome on the motorway, and pretty good on the open road.


Purchase price wasnt the issue for me. Lower running costs ( FUEL) each month were.

Diesel has its place. 97% of figures are made up anyway.

Graham lunn

49 posts

261 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
This surprises me, I have a clio 1.5 diesel and always get 65 mpg, the engine pulls well and will pull 5th gear real well and crusie well at 80 and is much quiter than my wifes petrol VW, to me - no contest, diesel wins every time

kevinday

13,634 posts

302 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
I am glad I live in a country with sensible fuel taxation (still too high though). Diesel is cheaper than petrol by around 8%, therefore the higher purchase price is recouped much quicker. Hungary also has strange used car prices, probably because many cars suffer from a lack of maintenance.

My car is a Skoda Octavia Combi TDi. The difference between a fully loaded petrol version (1.6i) and the 1.9TDi is around £1,300. At three years old this difference has increased to around £2,500! Diesels need less maintenance I guess. My overall fuel consumption is between 48 and 50 mpg. Much cheaper to own than the petrol version.

Apache

39,731 posts

306 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Doesn't the tax increases for diesel reveal the truth behind our governments 'green' policy?

Or should that be 'greed' policy

Alex

9,978 posts

306 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
It's not just the fuel saving, but the range too. Our diseasel people carrier will go for over 500 miles on a full tank.

I will never choose a diesel performance car though, however powerful they get.

leosayer

7,660 posts

266 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
How is diesel more green than petrol?

annodomini2

6,962 posts

273 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
I have clio 1.5dci and regularly see over 60mpg, if i did the same run in say the 1.4 petrol i'd probably see more like 30mpg! I can get over 500miles to a tank, and a clio doesn;t have a big fuel tank.

Performance is reasonable, but not quick, its cruises really well, and for a diesel is very quiet.

Given i do about 16000 a year getting more than twice as many miles a month from the same volumn of fuel! its bit more than a 12% difference

_dobbo_

14,619 posts

270 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Plus what if you are buying a diesel for performance?

Using there example - the 1.8 focus TDCi will pull the pants down on the Focus 1.6 Zetec... Economy is now a secondary reason for buying a diesel for many people.


cdp

8,017 posts

276 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Bio-diesel is very green. I use it but have to pay MORE (10p/l) than I would for the 20th century fossil based stuff. I buy it because I can and I want to support renewables, but I bet I am in a minority of people who would pay more.

The government claims high fuel taxes are for the environment but my example above ably demonstrates it not to be true.

nobbles

585 posts

282 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
I have just bought a new diesel and chose it over the comparative petrol engine due to the torque and mid range shove. Compare apples to apples with equivalent hp and torque between the two and probably the equivalent petrol will be around the same money to buy new therefore the mpg savings come from the start...

vpinto

51 posts

306 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
My perspective:

I previously owned an Alfa 147 1.6 (120bhp). Then I swapped for a 147 JTD (115bhp version). The difference in cost was around £3300. From 0-60, 0.1 sec slower and less 1 mile/hour top speed.
To fill up the tank on the petrol car I have to spend £40. On the diesel, £32 (around 20% less). But the more interesting part, is that with the petrol, I did around 300 miles with a tank (I have a heavy right foot). But in the diesel, 450 miles with the same driving is more than the usual.
This was money wise. Now, driving pleasure wise, it's a tricky thing.
On the long journeys, the torque is great for effortless driving. Overtaking, in particular (5th over 60 miles/h does it very convincingly). For high speed highway trips, the diesel is more quiet than the stressed 1.6 (around 5.000 rpm the engine makes quite a sound... but after 100 miles, you feel that you could ear something else). Add a 6th gear on newer diesel models, and the difference must be enormous.
On those great B roads, there is no comparison. The 1.6 is lighter, the throttle much more responsive... The sound is great. The fuel consumption appalling... But great fun... In the diesel, you can go almost as fast... but the car behavior isn't that fun, with the heavier engine on the front axel.

So in the end, I think I made a good choice... but I miss the 1.6 for that little pleasure run on my favorite road...

Best regards,
VP

hendry

1,945 posts

304 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
In response to an earlier point, diesel engines have also traditionally lasted longer, so a 100k miler with diesel is only just run in (kind of...). As such, they will typically depreciate less than their sweeter smelling and rattly cousins as they get older.

I appreciate the torwue benefits of diesel (I used to tow with my Cherokee TD and has to check the mirror on hills to make sur ethe trailer was still attached!), but was out with a chum in his 320cd at the weekend who showed it to have a turn of speed, but voiced frustration at the limited rev range and reluctance to pick up/drop revs over a well sorted petrol performance unit. We agreed that kind of stuff feels important when you are trying to make real progress cross-country.

voyds9

8,490 posts

305 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Generally cheaper for company car drivers too (even including extra 3% tax)

thirsty

726 posts

286 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
Oh the joy of having a government that is so afraid that someone may get away with paying a little less tax. So they raise the tax on diesel so that anyone wanting to save a little bit on fuel cost... can't. Having lived in the UK for ten years, I never could figure out why the British tax paying public never got angry about the ever increasing tax burden.

You would think that at some point, governments would learn to live within their budgets just like we have to. I don't know one that does, so in the mean time they keep topping up stealth taxes thinking no one will notice.

When large companies like Sanesburys start basing their lorries in France to avoid the high cost of diesel, you would think that someone would notice? Not a chance.

agent006

12,058 posts

286 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Generally cheaper for company car drivers too (even including extra 3% tax)


especially for euro4 compliant engines.

Alpineandy

1,395 posts

265 months

Friday 1st October 2004
quotequote all
leosayer said:
How is diesel more green than petrol?

MPG