Breaking into Investment Banking
Discussion
I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but I thought I would start a new thread because
a) I didn't want to hijack someone else's thread and
b) the other discussions have been on trading etc.
I'm a C++ developer with 10+ years commercial full-lifecycle development experience, a BSc in Physics and an MSc in Software Engineering.
I'm trying to break into Investment Banking in the City as a developer because that's where most of the C++ roles are these days it seems. The money would be nice as well, of course, but mainly I want to do it because I enjoy C++ and don't want to cross-train to Java and/or C# just yet.
Trouble is that almost all the contracts* on JobServe want prior financial experience, which obviously I haven't got. I did work for NatWest Insurance Services several years ago, but insurance experience isn't close enough to financial experience to be of any interest (no pun intended).
About 6 or more months ago I got through the CV screening process for Barclays Capital despite my lack of prior financial experience and got 81% in their BrainBench test for C++ but the lead then went cold and I ended up taking a contract with a previous client. I wonder if BarCap didn't proceed because I asked the agent if, given it was a day rate, if there was a contractual agreement on the maximum number of hours that constituted a 'day'. I now know that the banks like their pound of flesh (and preferably a couple more as well) for their money so perhaps this enquiry made them think I would be a 9-to-5er.
I've got one lead at the moment for an Investment Bank for whom my technical experience is more important than lack of prior financial experience, and I think this is my best bet for breaking into the market. However, they're dragging their heels a bit and I fear the lead is going cold.
Does anyone have any other suggestions, hints, tips or leads?
Thanks in advance
Jon
(* I should mention that I'm contract. I'm not looking for permanent employment. But I think most of the regulars know that already.
)
a) I didn't want to hijack someone else's thread and
b) the other discussions have been on trading etc.
I'm a C++ developer with 10+ years commercial full-lifecycle development experience, a BSc in Physics and an MSc in Software Engineering.
I'm trying to break into Investment Banking in the City as a developer because that's where most of the C++ roles are these days it seems. The money would be nice as well, of course, but mainly I want to do it because I enjoy C++ and don't want to cross-train to Java and/or C# just yet.
Trouble is that almost all the contracts* on JobServe want prior financial experience, which obviously I haven't got. I did work for NatWest Insurance Services several years ago, but insurance experience isn't close enough to financial experience to be of any interest (no pun intended).
About 6 or more months ago I got through the CV screening process for Barclays Capital despite my lack of prior financial experience and got 81% in their BrainBench test for C++ but the lead then went cold and I ended up taking a contract with a previous client. I wonder if BarCap didn't proceed because I asked the agent if, given it was a day rate, if there was a contractual agreement on the maximum number of hours that constituted a 'day'. I now know that the banks like their pound of flesh (and preferably a couple more as well) for their money so perhaps this enquiry made them think I would be a 9-to-5er.
I've got one lead at the moment for an Investment Bank for whom my technical experience is more important than lack of prior financial experience, and I think this is my best bet for breaking into the market. However, they're dragging their heels a bit and I fear the lead is going cold.
Does anyone have any other suggestions, hints, tips or leads?
Thanks in advance
Jon
(* I should mention that I'm contract. I'm not looking for permanent employment. But I think most of the regulars know that already.
)Keep trying is all I can suggest. Send your CV off to all the agents advertising investment banking jobs that suit your technical experience and you'll get an interview eventually.
I worked for 3 years at a leading financial data provider, whose clients are exclusively investment banks, but it still cut no ice as "investment banking experience".
I eventually got lucky and, out-of-the-blue, an agent phoned me up with a contract for one of the top investment banks. Once you get one on your CV, the world is your lobster!
I worked for 3 years at a leading financial data provider, whose clients are exclusively investment banks, but it still cut no ice as "investment banking experience".
I eventually got lucky and, out-of-the-blue, an agent phoned me up with a contract for one of the top investment banks. Once you get one on your CV, the world is your lobster!
www.efinancialjobs.co.uk seems a good source of all sorts of banking type roles.
I really fancy a BA role at a bank, its bread and butter work for me but with no degree its a firmly shut door as far as I can tell.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Friday 1st October 10:37
I really fancy a BA role at a bank, its bread and butter work for me but with no degree its a firmly shut door as far as I can tell.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Friday 1st October 10:37
Jon, try and make the journey in smaller leaps.
I got into the City after working for a unit trust management company in the 'burbs. The company had offices in the City, was a very well known financial house and so having it on my CV made a huge difference. It have me credibility that I simply didn't have before.
In truth the experience I got there wasn't directly relavent to what I did in the City but the technologies were similar and I started becoming immersed in the financial world and having a greater appreciation of what was going on, the terminology, the simpler financial products etc.
That said, my ex colleagues in town all seem to be coding in Java these days from what they tell me.
I got into the City after working for a unit trust management company in the 'burbs. The company had offices in the City, was a very well known financial house and so having it on my CV made a huge difference. It have me credibility that I simply didn't have before.
In truth the experience I got there wasn't directly relavent to what I did in the City but the technologies were similar and I started becoming immersed in the financial world and having a greater appreciation of what was going on, the terminology, the simpler financial products etc.
That said, my ex colleagues in town all seem to be coding in Java these days from what they tell me.
PetrolTed said:
That said, my ex colleagues in town all seem to be coding in Java these days from what they tell me.
A lot are migrating to C# (from Java as well as C++). C++ experience will stand you in good stead here as a lot of IB managers have this perception that only C++ programmers understand OO, even though C# is all but identical to VB.NET.
Yes, I realise there is a shift to Java and/or C#. It's a pity because C++ is still a superb language.
My reluctance to cross-train is simply because I'm a very experienced C++ developer with a wealth of experience, and I'm loathe to go from being an experienced C++ guy to a learning-the-ropes C# guy, if you see what I mean.
Having said that, I do accept that Microsoft very deliberately designed C# to make it easy for C++ developers to "leverage" their skills.
I thought I'd got my lucky break earlier this year when I got called for interview with a company in Woking who write financial software. They were very keen on my skills and experience, and everything was looking peachy until I failed their written aptitude test because a) I ran out of time and b) couldn't work out the distance that a bloody fly travels between two trains travelling towards each other
Anyway, I'm waffling as usual. Sorry about that.
My reluctance to cross-train is simply because I'm a very experienced C++ developer with a wealth of experience, and I'm loathe to go from being an experienced C++ guy to a learning-the-ropes C# guy, if you see what I mean.
Having said that, I do accept that Microsoft very deliberately designed C# to make it easy for C++ developers to "leverage" their skills.
I thought I'd got my lucky break earlier this year when I got called for interview with a company in Woking who write financial software. They were very keen on my skills and experience, and everything was looking peachy until I failed their written aptitude test because a) I ran out of time and b) couldn't work out the distance that a bloody fly travels between two trains travelling towards each other
Anyway, I'm waffling as usual. Sorry about that.
JonRB said:
Yes, I realise there is a shift to Java and/or C#. It's a pity because C++ is still a superb language.
Specific language to me is always a far lesser skill than experience in what you can do with it. I'd always choose someone who can, and has, delivered results in whatever language was appropriate - if they are good, they can do it in any language.
If you can do C++, you can do C#. Its only syntax.
Oh, and i do have a degree, since its in the thread
>> Edited by Size Nine Elm on Friday 1st October 10:57
Size Nine Elm said:
Yes, I realise there is a shift to Java and/or C#. It's a pity because C++ is still a superb language.
Specific language to me is always a far lesser skill than experience in what you can do with it. I'd always choose someone who can, and has, delivered results in whatever language was appropriate - if they are good, they can do it in any language.
If you can do C++, you can do C#. Its only syntax.
Totally agree. Paul Graham has a lot of interesting opinions about language choice.
Alex said:
Totally agree. Paul Graham has a lot of interesting opinions about language choice.
(interesting t)
Plotloss said:
Is C# quite hot at the moment then?
Next year I should be able to generate C# so thats quite handy if it is...
If you're in a Sun/IBM/Linux world, its Java, if you're in a MS world, its varieties of .NET, with C# being the language of choice.
Maybe not red hot yet, but growing...
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff