Where will I be banned

[Xpower Racer]

Hello. I'm new here. Reffered by "Muncher" He said this is the best place to get advice on my wee predicerment...

I@m about to get banned from driving for a miniumum of 1 year (in a Scottish Court) for doing speeds up to 150mph on the motorway. Becuase the speed was so hi they are actually doing me for Dangerous Driving.. I've given up the fight to get a lesser charge and am aranging my life around a long ban now.

Someone told me that there is nothing stopping me taking my driving test in another country then driving perfectly legaly over here. Is this right?

Also. Am I banned from Driving in the UK only or does it apply around the work (Australia, Germany, Africa and Assencion in perticular)

Any light on this matter would be greatly apreciated..

Thanks

[slinky]

Surely you are banned from driving in this country, therefore, no matter what license you attempt to drive on you are contravening the ban...

slinky

[woodytvr]

Right first up expect a load of people giving you grief on here for the high speed - ignore them - too me it's perfectly exceptable in the right circumstances.

Are you sure you'll only get a ban? I thought prison was an option at this speed.

As for the ban, I think if you lose you license you lose it, so you can't drive abroad. I have however heard stories of people having UK and Irish licenses and being legally allowed to drive even when losing one of them.

Good luck and like i said at the start just rise above the comment regarding your speed.

[Xpower Racer]

My friend led me to belive that I just loos my DVLA Licence. And there is nothing stopping me taking another countrys licence and driving here with it.

[Xpower Racer]

Its ok.. When I commited the offence I had just left the army after living in Germany for 3 years. I had been driving that speed routinly and safley for that time and wsa in the middle of training to be a driving instructor when I was caught.

I have no idea why I was doing that sped int he UK other than I got bored and missed traveling a a decent rate like I was used to in Germany.

I can no excuse myself for braking the law and I will not enter into an argument with anyone about weather it is safe to drive that speed on an open motorway. The little sproglet of a police officer that stopped me has about half the training and experience than me but its his job and he carried it out very well and treated me witht he respect that I deserve..

I broke the Law and now have to face the consiquences whatever they may be.

I am looking for a way for this to impact my life as litle as possible.. Hence the question at the begginging of the post.. Any more ideas on it peeps?

Cheers

[mechsympathy]

Xpower Racer said:

My friend led me to belive that I just loos my DVLA Licence. And there is nothing stopping me taking another countrys licence and driving here with it.

That's absolutely correct. Until they catch you...

And do you for having no insurance (cos you have no licence)

(AFAIK, but if it was that easy then a)Everyone would do it, and b)They'd have closed the loophole by now)

[Antwerpman]

You are banned from driving in the UK so theoretically you cannot drive there under any licence no matter what country it is from until the ban expires.

Having said that if you had a foreign address, with car and insurance registered there, and you obtained a driving licence from that country registered to that address, then it is very unlikely that if you were stopped in the UK that the connection between the UK and overseas 'you' would be made. You would still be banned from driving in the UK even on that foreign licence but chances are no one would ever make the connection

[DanL]

From what I remember of BiB's comments in other threads, if you didn't have a UK licence you'd get a 'skeleton' licence for your UK driving points/bans/etc, and be banned from driving on that.

So - whilst your question is the other way around (as you've got a UK licence and are thinking of a foreign one), you'll both loose your UK licence, AND are banned from driving in the UK for x months.

The UK driving ban wouldn't stop you from driving in other countries legally, but the loss of licence WOULD prevent you from doing this (as you won't have a valid driving licence). Getting a foreign licence would probably allow you to drive in other countries, but you'd still be banned in the UK.

Best point out I'm not a lawyer, but this is how it seems to me.

Good luck!

Dan

[swilly]

If you are banned from driving in the UK, i dont think it matters how many licences from other countries you may have.

You are simply banned from driving on UK roads.

But, as has been mentioned, for 150mph the possibility of prison should also be something for you to consider.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Section 103 RTA 88 states:

A person is guilty of an offence if, whilst disqualified from holding or obtaining a licence he obtains a licence or drives a motor vehicle on a road.

This can lead to arrest - 6 months imp and /or 5000 fine. (12 months imp if on indictment in Jockland)

This law applies to England/Scotland/Wales and it matters not what Licence you produce then if caught in UK and you are on the books as a disqualified driver then the axe falls. Police check on name/dob should bring that fact up.

However as far as I am aware the obtaining of a Licence whilst disqualified applies to a UK Licence and not one say from Singapore.

Again if you go the foreign route then you will have nothing to hand over to prove you have passed a test of competency (think its only China that doesn't require this), as your UK licence will have seized (except for short ban under 56 days IIRC). So the only other way to get a foreign licence would be to sit the test of the selected country. From a programme on Rad 4 the other day Canada is harder to pass than UK. Again being unable to produce a UK Licence abroad may bring similar problems.

Used to be a site on the Web www.drive-legal.com where you could buy a "foreign licence" for 700 notes but just checked and note site no longer there. Wonder why?.

DVD



>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Friday 1st October 16:07

[xpower racer]

Thanks for those replies.. All very interesting.

I would like to point out that I'm not trying to flout the law.... I was just wandering if I take a forigen driving test can I drive with that licence over here. It seems not...

I may still go do the Irish driving test so I can drive around Europe on my hols.. I'm determind not to let this ban ruin my life any more than it's going to...

Cheers all

[gone]

xpower racer said:

Thanks for those replies.. All very interesting. I would like to point out that I'm not trying to flout the law.... I was just wandering if I take a forigen driving test can I drive with that licence over here. It seems not...

You cannot drive anywhere in the UK unless you are willing to risk a charge of driving whilst disqualified. If you manage to pass an Irish licence to a Police officer when stopped and they do not check you on PNC, then you will get away with it.
If you are unlucky and they rub a check on your correct details, then you are nicked.

If you supply false ones, you may get away with it but if they smell a rat, you are nicked and you are in the sh1t.

xpower racer said:

I may still go do the Irish driving test so I can drive around Europe on my hols.. I'm determind not to let this ban ruin my life any more than it's going to... Cheers all

You need to reseacrh that this is not going to cause you problems. I know that the EU are looking at standardising driving punishments so that disqual in the UK means disqual everywhere in EU and disqual in EU country means disqual here. I don't think it applies at the moment but is coming soon!!!!

[CanAm]

And don't forget the insurance aspect. You will HAVE to tell your insurers, or any future insurers, of the conviction. They would have to be pretty dense (though some of them are!) to give you any cover under those circumstances, so you'd be done for driving without insurance as well.

[gemini]

woodytvr said:

too me it's perfectly exceptable at grammar! Are you sure you'll only get a ban? I thought prison was an option at this speed. dont want to be the messenger with bad news but take a tooth brush The message has been spelt out clear Sentencing is a strange thing. We all know that a burglary may get you a suspended sentence but driving ! ?

[turbobloke]

It's not been said explicitly before, and maybe you're on the case already, but it looks like you'd be well advised to get legal representation at your hearing. There appear to be some mitigating factors (driving in Germany, your level of training and hopefully a previous good record??) so while these don't excuse anything as far as the law is concerned there could be a lot to gain from skilful mitigation.

I share some PHers sense of sadness bordering on anger that such stiff penalties await you when your driving may well have been safe, and certainly not illegal in places abroad. You can bet that in right-on politically correct anally retentive anti-car Britain it's illegal! Here we get the book and its cover thrown at us for doing something that's safe at a given time and place simply because it might not be safe to do it at some other time in some other place under different circumstances. Totally wrong and counter to the principles of natural justice IMHO.

[WildCat]

gone said:

xpower racer said: Thanks for those replies.. All very interesting. I would like to point out that I'm not trying to flout the law.... I was just wandering if I take a forigen driving test can I drive with that licence over here. It seems not... You cannot drive anywhere in the UK unless you are willing to risk a charge of driving whilst disqualified. If you manage to pass an Irish licence to a Police officer when stopped and they do not check you on PNC, then you will get away with it. If you are unlucky and they rub a check on your correct details, then you are nicked.

The Rally Drivers who got well and truly stung in the 2002 Rally in S Wales ..... McCrae and Schwarz - banned from diving on public roads here - but allowed to drive in meets. Did bot apply to their driving back in Switzerland - where McCrae lives - when he is not driving (dunno how he copes 3mph tolerance over entire ranges from 20 mph to 81 mph und disguised in fancy dress ranging from wheely bin (apt) to Snow White's boobies - Did not bother to look at the where the lens was in a "Laughing Cow" But know where I would have placed it )

Have German, Swiss, US and UK licences myself .... had them a long time. But ban in this country would mean "not allowed to drive here - even on the foreign ones . It would not prevent me from driving abroad on my foreign ones - though if the legislation (as gone mentions) comes in to UK Law via Directive (und I hear this is scheduled for 2005 from newspaper reports in "Le Figaro", "Le Matin - (Swiss - yesterday) and the "Frankfurter Allgemeine" and currently being "gasbagged" over on German petrolhead forum - then you are still up the creek without the paddle (or should I say "up the A/Bahn without the throttle )

gone said:

You need to reseacrh that this is not going to cause you problems. I know that the EU are looking at standardising driving punishments so that disqual in the UK means disqual everywhere in EU and disqual in EU country means disqual here. I don't think it applies at the moment but is coming soon!!!!

Apart from that - you should bear in mind that they have in fact cleared out most of Durham jail to make room for all us naughty drivers. For good measure - to make sure you well and truly learn our lesson - you will be sharing your cell with mice and rats and given diet of dry bread, hard cheese and manky water ....

150 mph is definite You are looking at nasty ban of ca 1- 2 years possibly - and even nastier ban on your freedom here. Better do as gemini suggests and pack overnight case.....

Und - even in Germany on those deristricteds - if you abuse the privilege - and drive along at too OTT a speed - they will prosecute.

Und another thing - I pay extra on insurance so that I can enjoy a darned good blat over there - most Germans pay it - as if you have crunch above the advisory limit of 130 kph - German insurance companies have little clause in the small print about that..... You pay little more on premium to ensure cover.....

[xpower racer]

I've been to court now and I'm very Happy.....


I've been using a lawyer for the past 3 months and he has done me nothing but cost me £700!!! So 30 seconds before I went in I dropped him. He was telling me that without him I'm facing prison, community service and a 2+ year ban!!


Well I am a very well presented person, I have lots of evidence of high levels of driver training on german Autobahns (From the Army) and the fact that I was driving a MG ZS 180 instead of a Nova made a difference too. I also have 6 years NCB.
The Judge was very impressed with me.. He never said one thing condecending, patronising, nasty or even negative about my driving. In fact he Said "I am sorry but the Law prevents me from giving you any less that 12 months ban. I do hope this wont affect your career to adversly"

It was a scottish court and anything over 115mph is a mandatory "Dangerous Driving" conviction. (and in Scotland that carries a minimum of 12 month ban with a resit of your test at the end) So thats what I got.,... minimum Sentence with a £300 fine..


So two fingers up at my lawyer and he is going to get paid back at £50 a month wich will really upset him... I might even take him to court myself as he lost my driving licence so when asked for it in court I looked like a right idiot... but I told the court he lost it and the Judge smiled.....

Thanks all for your help. If you see my MG (Pic on site/profile) at any race/track days come say hi... No one can stop me driving it on the track :-)

>> Edited by xpower racer on Tuesday 5th October 07:37

[IOLAIRE]

xpower racer said:

I've been to court now and I'm very Happy..... I've been using a lawyer for the past 3 months and he has done me nothing but cost me £700!!! So 30 seconds before I went in I dropped him. He was telling me that without him I'm facing prison, community service and a 2+ year ban!! Well I am a very well presented person, I have lots of evidence of high levels of driver training on german Autobahns (From the Army) and the fact that I was driving a MG ZS 180 instead of a Nova made a difference too. I also have 6 years NCB. The Judge was very impressed with me.. He never said one thing condecending, patronising, nasty or even negative about my driving. In fact he Said "I am sorry but the Law prevents me from giving you any less that 12 months ban. I do hope this wont affect your career to adversly" It was a scottish court and anything over 115mph is a mandatory "Dangerous Driving" conviction. (and in Scotland that carries a minimum of 12 month ban with a resit of your test at the end) So thats what I got.,... minimum Sentence with a £300 fine.. So two fingers up at my lawyer and he is going to get paid back at £50 a month wich will really upset him... I might even take him to court myself as he lost my driving licence so when asked for it in court I looked like a right idiot... but I told the court he lost it and the Judge smiled..... Thanks all for your help. If you see my MG (Pic on site/profile) at any race/track days come say hi... No one can stop me driving it on the track :-) >> Edited by xpower racer on Tuesday 5th October 07:37

I just read your thread and am delighted you took the action that you did.
There appears to be a serious blind spot with a great many lawyers in the concept of mitigation, particularly in traffic cases; it is an extremely powerful medium if it comes in a sincere manner from the accused. The beauty of it is that it is not legislated, as long as you stay with subject matter that is relevant to the crime and your circumstamces at the time, you can conduct a very credible argument for why you find yourself before the court.
By explaining yourself to the court in detail, particularly the relevant facts like your army training and experience, which is doubtless greater and more involved than the traffic cop that stopped you, the fact that you had been driving perfectly safely in Germany for years, and no doubt old habits die hard, and also the capability of your vehicle, all add up to a picture that the judge can use to make a decision on your sentence.
In your case you went before someone with an intelligent, open mind who used wisdom and common sense to judge you rather than political prejudice, it makes all the difference in the world.
My experience in Scottish courts however, when compared to some of the nightmare stories you read about on this site, leads me to believe that you will get a fairer hearing in Scotland, with the odd exception.
I take it that if it is assumed dangerous to exceed 115 MPH, you will be a witness at the trial of the traffic cop who stopped you?
Or am I being facetious?

[xpower racer]

I know what you mean.. He must have loved it.. seeing me blasting past.. Then taking 27 miles to catch up.. .

[IOLAIRE]

xpower racer said:

I know what you mean.. He must have loved it.. seeing me blasting past.. Then taking 27 miles to catch up.. .

Prolonging the thrill of the chase maybe?
I better not imply that or I'll have Street reminding me that all Trafpol are perfect and wouldn't dream of doing a thing like that!