When deglazing doesn't work
Discussion
Morning all, have tried so many times to deglaze the brakes as per the advice on here, but with no luck. Can anyone offer any advice as the pads look fairly new...
It's heading into Bamford for a new flywheel and clutch next week, but with the weekend here, dropping the hood, and London cruising is not the kind of attention I want to draw to the sound of the breaks.
Help is greatly appreciated!!
It's heading into Bamford for a new flywheel and clutch next week, but with the weekend here, dropping the hood, and London cruising is not the kind of attention I want to draw to the sound of the breaks.
Help is greatly appreciated!!
Just back from a major power wash and first 200 metres were squeak free. But then they started again...
I called local aston approved garages - they don't have a slot for me to come and sand down the brakes till end of next week... Also tried kwik fit to see if they would put copper grease and they refused saying its dangerous. Going to try giving aston service near shepherds bush a ring to see if they can help maybe too.
Appreciating all the input so far.
Symptoms:
All wheels squeak under light breaking.
Medium breaking also produces squealing.
Not from cold or for the first few minutes usually.
O/S rear there is also a sound that increases/decreases with speed - mike at BR explained the likely cause and is on the list for next week.
Driving style: mix of motorway and city on a weekly basis, covering 400-500 miles per week.
I will say that with the hood up, you don't notice it so much, but with the roof down, wow! Sound deadening in the car is actually very effective. Wish the breaks would be the same.
I called local aston approved garages - they don't have a slot for me to come and sand down the brakes till end of next week... Also tried kwik fit to see if they would put copper grease and they refused saying its dangerous. Going to try giving aston service near shepherds bush a ring to see if they can help maybe too.
Appreciating all the input so far.
Symptoms:
All wheels squeak under light breaking.
Medium breaking also produces squealing.
Not from cold or for the first few minutes usually.
O/S rear there is also a sound that increases/decreases with speed - mike at BR explained the likely cause and is on the list for next week.
Driving style: mix of motorway and city on a weekly basis, covering 400-500 miles per week.
I will say that with the hood up, you don't notice it so much, but with the roof down, wow! Sound deadening in the car is actually very effective. Wish the breaks would be the same.
a few different remedies as above:
anti squeal backing pads
different coppa slip stuff
chamfer edges (especially if rear pads or handbrake pad)
re-bed them in (from Pagid website)
Why bedding?
To transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disc faces to achieve maximum performance.
To stabilize compressible materials to avoid a spongy pedal.
To boil off volatile elements in the friction compound in order to have the initial ‘green’ fading during bedding and not during the race.
To align the pad surface with the brake disc surface to have full contact.
If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used too hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both, the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.
Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking.
1.) BASIC BEDDING IN
To initiate some heat in the brake discs and pads.
4 to 6 stops with medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h (90 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
Distance between each brake stop approximately 300 - 400 meters (300 to 400 yards).
The pads should not reach temperatures above 400° Centigrade (550° Fahrenheit).
No dragging!
Blocking of the air ducts might be helpful to reach appropriate temperatures quicker.
2.) IMMEDIATELY AFTER BASIC BEDDING IN AT HIGH SPEED
Simulating race conditions
One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure, without allowing brakes to lock from approximately 180 km/h (110 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
No dragging!
Recovery stops with light brake pressure 3 to 4 times. (Cleaning procedure)
Repeat the high-speed stops including recovery stops 2 to 3 times.
Allow a cool-off distance of approximately 500 m (500 yards) between high-speed stops.
BRAKE DISCS
If possible, pads should be bedded on used but NOT worn out brake discs.
Pagid brake pad material can be used either on solid, grooved or cross-drilled discs.
For disc bedding please refer to the disc manufacturers’ own instruction.
MOUNTING NEW PADS ON USED DISCS
Edges of pad surface should be filed roughly to 45 degrees to ensure that the pad carries fully and evenly and is not touching the edge of the disc.
Do not use discs, which are pre-bedded, or have been used with friction material other than PAGID.
anti squeal backing pads
different coppa slip stuff
chamfer edges (especially if rear pads or handbrake pad)
re-bed them in (from Pagid website)
Why bedding?
To transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disc faces to achieve maximum performance.
To stabilize compressible materials to avoid a spongy pedal.
To boil off volatile elements in the friction compound in order to have the initial ‘green’ fading during bedding and not during the race.
To align the pad surface with the brake disc surface to have full contact.
If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used too hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both, the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.
Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking.
1.) BASIC BEDDING IN
To initiate some heat in the brake discs and pads.
4 to 6 stops with medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h (90 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
Distance between each brake stop approximately 300 - 400 meters (300 to 400 yards).
The pads should not reach temperatures above 400° Centigrade (550° Fahrenheit).
No dragging!
Blocking of the air ducts might be helpful to reach appropriate temperatures quicker.
2.) IMMEDIATELY AFTER BASIC BEDDING IN AT HIGH SPEED
Simulating race conditions
One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure, without allowing brakes to lock from approximately 180 km/h (110 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
No dragging!
Recovery stops with light brake pressure 3 to 4 times. (Cleaning procedure)
Repeat the high-speed stops including recovery stops 2 to 3 times.
Allow a cool-off distance of approximately 500 m (500 yards) between high-speed stops.
BRAKE DISCS
If possible, pads should be bedded on used but NOT worn out brake discs.
Pagid brake pad material can be used either on solid, grooved or cross-drilled discs.
For disc bedding please refer to the disc manufacturers’ own instruction.
MOUNTING NEW PADS ON USED DISCS
Edges of pad surface should be filed roughly to 45 degrees to ensure that the pad carries fully and evenly and is not touching the edge of the disc.
Do not use discs, which are pre-bedded, or have been used with friction material other than PAGID.
It can be difficult to bust though glazed pads without taking them out and manually roughing up the surface. Squeal is not normally a consequence of glazing, but poor braking performance is.
Squeal is usually because the combination of brake disc material and pad material gives high frequency vibrations under certain conditions. It can be fixed by changing either material, but it is impractical to change the grade of cast iron in the disc, and almost as impractical to change the pad material. The old solution was to put a shim between pad and piston, which altered something - possibly the centre of pressure - but now a thick technical gloop is spread on the pad backplate to damp down vibrations out of the audible range. Any old gloop will generally not work, so use the specified AM solution. Copaslip will likely become very runny when hot, and risk contaminating the braking surfaces.
Squeal is usually because the combination of brake disc material and pad material gives high frequency vibrations under certain conditions. It can be fixed by changing either material, but it is impractical to change the grade of cast iron in the disc, and almost as impractical to change the pad material. The old solution was to put a shim between pad and piston, which altered something - possibly the centre of pressure - but now a thick technical gloop is spread on the pad backplate to damp down vibrations out of the audible range. Any old gloop will generally not work, so use the specified AM solution. Copaslip will likely become very runny when hot, and risk contaminating the braking surfaces.
mikey k said:
Both mine have done the same
I had a guy from the factory look at the S he said the two things to do are adjust the handbrake with the car on the ground and use the blue polymer based antisqueal rather than the copper stuff
Worked on mine
Had the blue stuff put onto mine too and the squealing stopped.I had a guy from the factory look at the S he said the two things to do are adjust the handbrake with the car on the ground and use the blue polymer based antisqueal rather than the copper stuff
Worked on mine
sukh_m said:
I had this fixed under warranty from works service, 3 weeks later it has re-appeared!
Rather annoying
Well Grange told me that the handbrake pad was a revised part and the blue stuff was the latest recommended anti-squeal compound. Had both fitted together and the squeal went and has not reappeared in 16 months Rather annoying
I have heard :0) the best solution was the high speed one(cough!!)
Best done early in the morning, brake hard from a three figure mph down to zero.
i.e when coming off a motorway.
Someone does it in mine once every so often and it does cure the squeak which they say is down to "girlie braking!!!"
Best done early in the morning, brake hard from a three figure mph down to zero.
i.e when coming off a motorway.
Someone does it in mine once every so often and it does cure the squeak which they say is down to "girlie braking!!!"
tarks63 said:
I have heard :0) the best solution was the high speed one(cough!!)
Best done early in the morning, brake hard from a three figure mph down to zero.
i.e when coming off a motorway.
Someone does it in mine once every so often and it does cure the squeak which they say is down to "girlie braking!!!"
or we all need to MTFU? Best done early in the morning, brake hard from a three figure mph down to zero.
i.e when coming off a motorway.
Someone does it in mine once every so often and it does cure the squeak which they say is down to "girlie braking!!!"
GlynV8 said:
I have found the ATE Plastilube stuff is much better than copper grease, probably as the latter cannot cope with the necessary temperature range. I think Wurth do something similar also .
This is the stuff I have:
link
That's the "blue stuff" (no connection to Jockman) This is the stuff I have:
link
I have a tube in the garage for future use
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