Authorities tampering with speed measuring kit
Discussion
North Wales; Where else?
The Chester Chronicle has a letter from a North Wales driver who has complained to the Highways Authority about a new radar controlled speed warning sign in Flintshire which is lighting up and telling drivers to slow down, even though they are below the 40 mph limit.
Amazingly, the Highways Authority told him they have done this deliberately in order to slow drivers even more due to the activity of heavy lorries in the area.
It occurs to me that if they are willing to fiddle with speed measuring equipment in this way, what is to prevent them doing the same fiddle with Gatsos or laser speed traps?
The Chester Chronicle has a letter from a North Wales driver who has complained to the Highways Authority about a new radar controlled speed warning sign in Flintshire which is lighting up and telling drivers to slow down, even though they are below the 40 mph limit.
Amazingly, the Highways Authority told him they have done this deliberately in order to slow drivers even more due to the activity of heavy lorries in the area.
It occurs to me that if they are willing to fiddle with speed measuring equipment in this way, what is to prevent them doing the same fiddle with Gatsos or laser speed traps?
I take it the "yeah....right...." was missing the disbelievers icon.
Take it from me plenty round here are set to go off at just below the limit. Some even trigger at levels amazingly way below the limit.
Not just a case of crying wolf? Degrading the value of a useful device in my opinion.
Take it from me plenty round here are set to go off at just below the limit. Some even trigger at levels amazingly way below the limit.
Not just a case of crying wolf? Degrading the value of a useful device in my opinion.
It wouldn't surprise me if their calibration is out.
After all how many mugs are going to question the NIP enough to go to court? Even if they do, how do you go about proving that the scamera was incorrectly calibrated at the time?
I presume that most forces/scameraships are honest enough to do it properly, but rest assured if I get an unexpected NIP it'll go all the way. If I see the flash I check the speedo anyway, so if I'm safe by my speedo or I've seen no flash it becomes the eejits job to prove my offence.
After all how many mugs are going to question the NIP enough to go to court? Even if they do, how do you go about proving that the scamera was incorrectly calibrated at the time?
I presume that most forces/scameraships are honest enough to do it properly, but rest assured if I get an unexpected NIP it'll go all the way. If I see the flash I check the speedo anyway, so if I'm safe by my speedo or I've seen no flash it becomes the eejits job to prove my offence.
Streetcop said:
Objection. Relevance?
Save it for court..
Yes but thats where the problem "lies" as it were.
Joe public goes to court, police say its not true, joe public loses because "they said it is so"
Police lie sometimes as they are only human. Friend of mine was a clerk of the court and he used to see the police trying to place some stupid **** on people to get them convicted. In more serious cases the defense sometimes tore them to pieces (leading to one officer getting fired!) but in the case of speeding all it takes is one tw@t from LTi to come down and say "yes it is accurate" and that is that.
At least with GATSO's you could do a self calibration from the photo.
Or at least - so pals tell me .... Streetcop said:
I just can't understand why it's worth it....
I mean...there are enough people speeding and doing so excessively, without 'fitting' people up....
As an opening comment I agree with the above.
However you, SC, totally miss the main point apart from arguing about the accusation of fixing Gatso readouts etc.
These are not devices for enforcement but advisory for safety reasons. Setting them to trigger unnecessarily will result in a degradation of their effect.
The parallel situation would be if a sharp bend warning sign were erected before every bend where the road deviated from the straight more than say 15 degrees. What about the bend signs situated before square 90s?
It's an abuse of a resource. I'm sure the individuals responsible honestly believe they are doing the right thing, but they are quite misguided.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 2nd October 09:52
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 2nd October 09:53
Flat in Fifth said:
I just can't understand why it's worth it....
I mean...there are enough people speeding and doing so excessively, without 'fitting' people up....
As an opening comment I agree with the above.
However you, SC, totally miss the point.
These are not devices for enforcement but advisory for safety reasons. Setting them to trigger unnecessarily will result in a degardation of their effect.
The parallel situation would be if a sharp bend warning sign were erected before every bend where the road deviated from the straight more than say 15 degrees. What about the bend signs situated before square 90s?
It's an abuse of a resource. I'm sure the individuals responsible honestly believe they are doing the right thing, but they are quite misguided.
Hear! Hear!
But on subject of "fitting people up" - I would say that stationing a scam near speed limit change is just that.
A6 - between Morecambe and Carnforth - northbound after passing A5105 turn in direction of the Bay and just before the roundabout leading to M6 Carnforth J35 - A6 has 40mph limit. Moves down to 30mph and less than lampost distance after the 30 mph lollipop, mein Liebchen - Gatso! Obsured by lollipop as you approach - only comes into view after you pass lollipop - lots of rubber on tarmac too.... so shunts are down to Pavlov Dog effect of scam - and everyone in Lancs knows they are set to zero tolerance as well
That - and Steviebabes little shannanigans at Ings and other stitch up sites - is what I would termas "fitting people up!" Liebchen. We want safety - but we want to be absolutely assured that we are being treated fairly - and we ain't!
WildCat said:
But on subject of "fitting people up" - I would say that stationing a scam near speed limit change is just that.
Ahhhh, you'm too quick for me m'dear. My old trigger finger too itchy on the submit reply button and then too long in the editing stage.
Never mind.
I sort of agree with what you say, cynical positoning and use of electronic enforcement, as opposed to the organic kind, has degraded the potential positive effect, if any, of cameras et al to the point where the situation is not recoverable.
I was going to add in my original post that it has been known for some time, esp re Gatsos, that the speed measurement kit gives spurious results for a number of reasons. Yet that hasn't stopped quite ludicrous NoIPs going out which should have been caught by the photograph checking process.
Equally the disgraceful two NoIPs offences timed seconds apart situation, this has existed for some time and still goes on. Stopping these is not rocket science; though considering the state of NASA these days, perhaps we need a new comparison for reference of good science. I digress.
It could be argued that deliberately allowing these potential miscarriages of justice to continue is indeed "fitting people up." I would have great difficulty in arguing against that, and in fact don't wish to.
Not quite the same as true "fitting people up" as in one celebrated case where several people were accused of riotous behaviour. Missiles (lumps of brick) were provided as evidence alleging found in their possession. Later proved that all the lumps were from the same brick, and there was no brick dust in the defendant's clothes. That case was the undoing of a seriously corrupt detective and his team, but one who had fitted up a number of criminal types.
Also not the same as finding somebody genuinely exceeding the limit, and then keeping the reading on the display for later drivers who "fitted the profile" but may or may not have been speeding. Again a true case, found by a diligent gaffer, and resulted in more than just a standing to attention, cap off, thumbs down trouser seams incident.
As said before, if a particular problem requires enforcement it's just not necessary to fudge the edges and treat it as a black/white situation. There are enough utter pee takers around.
It is more a case of people being "fitted up" by gross incompetence and having to meet certain politically imposed targets, e.g. parking clown nonsense. Regardless it is a national disgrace.
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 2nd October 10:31
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