Friday 3rd May 2013

My favourite 911 Turbo: PH Blog

Who better to ask about 911 Turbos than Chris Harris - just prepare for a surprise at the answer

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The first 911 Turbo I drove was the yellow 3.6 Turbo 965 bought by Autocar at the end of the last century. Sometimes it worked properly, but mostly it didn’t. This behaviour perpetuated up until the point that a previous director of the parent company tore the sump off it, whereupon it was repaired and sold. We all loved it, despite the indiscretions.

3.6-litre 964 was a brutal introduction

But it wasn’t actually very good to drive. In fact it was one of the worst 911s I’ve ever driven, but at the same time its faults made it such a challenge you couldn’t help but enjoy wrestling with the great understeering banana.

I seem to remember driving in convoy with Steve Sutcliffe to Stansted airport – he was in the 965 – heading to Germany for Autocar’s first test in the new 996 Turbo. The 996 blew our minds, and a 360 Modena, and on our return the 965 parped itself on the M11 at about 1am. One of the turbos was glowing so hot it looked like the car had under-floor neons.

The 996 Turbo remains the stand-out version of the force-fed 911 for me. It had a huge impact on what we now expect from usable performance cars, and as a package in many ways it’s a more enjoyable car to drive than the 997 version. The steering is especially superb, the four-wheel drive system always seems to make the car feel rear-wheel drive until some front-drive is absolutely necessary. The GT3 badge has now passed into legend, but it’s worth remembering that back in 2000 the 996 Turbo was a much more impressive car than the first GT3. With the later X50 pack fitted it was, and still is an absolute weapon.

930 huge fun when you're in the mood

The earlier 930 cars are a blast, but just too turbocharged for me. I drove one a few weeks back and on a damp road it was sometimes alarming – but again that is part of the appeal of a Turbo. You don’t just climb aboard and pin the right pedal, you have to plan your throttle applications seconds in advance, and once you find a rhythm with the car and road there is much satisfaction to be had. But sometimes you just step out happy that you didn’t wind up in a ditch.

In many ways the 993 Turbo is the car of the moment – values have been creeping up for a while and it does tick all the boxes for a potential investment. By 996 standards, the 993 was delivered in tiny quantities, it is to some eyes prettier, more compact and of course the engine compartment contains no water. The reason I have never quite understood the price premium of the 993 series cars is that I much prefer the way the 996 drives: the gearshift is better, the handling and performance are far more accessible and the driving position is much more adjustable. Boring, but true.

Civilised and accomplished but is it the best?

I ran a 996 Turbo back in 2006, it was everything I’d hoped it would be. It replaced a 996 GT2 and despite having none of the cool factor and not being as ludicrous in a straight line, it was a much better road car: faster in most circumstances too. I can remember asking myself several times what should replace it, but there was nothing else that could cover all those bases. In some ways there still isn’t.

Chris

[WCZ]

996 turbo is realistically as fast as you'd ever want to go on public roads imo

lovely cars!

[Shurv]

Spot on comments, I think the much maligned 996 will in future years be the 911 to have,Porsche pushed forward in all areas with this car to produce a car that was in every way better than the 993.It combines old school and new generation 911 in one car.Some say the interiors are dated, but that's the appeal, it all feels very analogue next to the more modern feel of the 997 interior.It's all about the drive, not the buttons on the dash.

[youngsyr]

article said:

The reason I have never quite understood the price premium of the 993 series cars is that I much prefer the way the 996 drives: the gearshift is better, the handling and performance are far more accessible and the driving position is much more adjustable. Boring, but true.

You're about to buy a second hand 911 Turbo, but are not sure about which model, how far down the list of requirements are "accessibility of handling, gearshift and driving position"?

[Digga]

I think the 996 in general - Turbo and also GT3 - does mark something of a defining point in 911ism - certainly the first water-coolled and arguably the last completely driver-focussed and electric-gizmo free chassis.

Edited by Dan Trent on Friday 3rd May 12:31

[MrGeoff]

youngsyr said:

article said:

The reason I have never quite understood the price premium of the 993 series cars is that I much prefer the way the 996 drives: the gearshift is better, the handling and performance are far more accessible and the driving position is much more adjustable. Boring, but true.

You're about to buy a second hand 911 Turbo, but are not sure about which model, how far down the list of requirements are "accessibility of handling, gearshift and driving position"?

Surely if you're looking for a drivers car these factors are right up there, they play a huge part in deciding. Or maybe a 911 is just to be admired in a garage and never driven?

[youngsyr]

MrGeoff said:

youngsyr said:

article said:

The reason I have never quite understood the price premium of the 993 series cars is that I much prefer the way the 996 drives: the gearshift is better, the handling and performance are far more accessible and the driving position is much more adjustable. Boring, but true.

You're about to buy a second hand 911 Turbo, but are not sure about which model, how far down the list of requirements are "accessibility of handling, gearshift and driving position"?

Surely if you're looking for a drivers car these factors are right up there, they play a huge part in deciding. Or maybe a 911 is just to be admired in a garage and never driven?

We're talking about 911 Turbos here; they're all drivers cars!!

[franki68]

thankgod,I thought I was alone in preferring the 996 turbo to the later versions.SHame mine spontaneously combusted.
I found it a more enjoyable car than the 997 turbo .

[bencharles]

Not the best looking 911. BUT this adds to the want factor. Somewhat affordable probably a good "investment"

[GTRene]

for looks and classics I like the 930 turbo but not the old school turbo gap.
maybe its better to make that engine/car ready for a supercharger, that way not turbo-lag and the engine is already strong enough I guess.
I asked about something like that some years ago to a Porsche guy, he said it would be possible if you change also the injection system etc?

anyways, then the car would be more driveable I guess?
and also gain some hp when your working on it, win-win

[Steviesam]

franki68 said:

thankgod,I thought I was alone in preferring the 996 turbo to the later versions.SHame mine spontaneously combusted.
I found it a more enjoyable car than the 997 turbo .

What happened to yours?

[youngsyr]

GTRene said:

for looks and classics I like the 930 turbo but not the old school turbo gap.
maybe its better to make that engine/car ready for a supercharger, that way not turbo-lag and the engine is already strong enough I guess.
I asked about something like that some years ago to a Porsche guy, he said it would be possible if you change also the injection system etc?

anyways, then the car would be more driveable I guess?
and also gain some hp when your working on it, win-win

Could be tricky fitting a supercharger in the boot?

Turbos you can just shape the exhaust(s) to fit them into any spare gap, superchargers need direct access to the crank.

[youngsyr]

GTRene said:

for looks and classics I like the 930 turbo but not the old school turbo gap.
maybe its better to make that engine/car ready for a supercharger, that way not turbo-lag and the engine is already strong enough I guess.
I asked about something like that some years ago to a Porsche guy, he said it would be possible if you change also the injection system etc?

anyways, then the car would be more driveable I guess?
and also gain some hp when your working on it, win-win

996 Turbo would be pretty much bottom of my list - it just looks so bland, both inside and out.

993 Turbo S would be top of my list, dated, but in a vintage way:

[lotusgeek]

I've been lucky enough to have driven most of the older cars. No doubt in my mind the 993 is the most desirable from an aesthetic and investment perspective but as Chris mentions it's not as slick to drive.

I'm maybe a little biased as a family member owns a stunning 996 Turbo which I've tracked and driven on long road trips and it has always been superb. Admittedly I find it a little crashy on certain roads and the sports seats are not actually that comfy but otherwise it's great. As for the complaints about the interior on the 996 I find it really depends on the specification. If you've the sat nav, full leather and the full carbon package it looks great and functions well.
One thing I do have no answer for is the dam ugly headlights but the rear end more than makes up for it.

If given the choice I'd take the 993 turbo purely as it was the Turbo I grow up with and it's probably going to be worth 100k plus soon enough but the 996 is a better and more rewarding drive.

[STiG911]

youngsyr said:

GTRene said:

for looks and classics I like the 930 turbo but not the old school turbo gap.
maybe its better to make that engine/car ready for a supercharger, that way not turbo-lag and the engine is already strong enough I guess.
I asked about something like that some years ago to a Porsche guy, he said it would be possible if you change also the injection system etc?

anyways, then the car would be more driveable I guess?
and also gain some hp when your working on it, win-win

Could be tricky fitting a supercharger in the boot?

Turbos you can just shape the exhaust(s) to fit them into any spare gap, superchargers need direct access to the crank.

It is (or at least was a few years back) possible to buy a bolt-on supercharger conversion for 930 and 964 series 911s.
Anyways - I do think that the 996 is the Looker of the 'water' turbo 911s, it just has more presence and looks more of a complete design package than the 997 or even the 991. Just remember to keep the thing more than half-full of fuel, eh Harris?

[big_treacle]

I've only driven the 996 turbo so I can't compare it to any other. But I can agree it is an amazing car to drive. The acceleration on boost is intoxicating!

[youngsyr]

What is it with the model numbering of 911s, IIRC it goes:

911
912
930
964
965
993
996
997

then

991



At a guess there are some model years in there for the last two digits for some, but 991 just comes out of nowhere?

[youngsyr]

big_treacle said:

I've only driven the 996 turbo so I can't compare it to any other. But I can agree it is an amazing car to drive. The acceleration on boost is intoxicating!

That's just hi-powered turbo cars for you though, you don't need a 911 for that.

For me the 911 (and any supercar) has to offer the complete package - looks, power, sports car handling, sound, exclusivity.

The 993 Turbo S has all of those, the 996 Turbo barely has two.

[MikeyBoy2000]

"and on our return the 965 parped itself on the M11 at about 1am. One of the turbos was glowing so hot it looked like the car had under-floor neons."

The 965 only has 1 turbo Mr Harris!!

Mr H does make some valid points about the 964/965 Turbo - They are VERY laggy, I have cured this on mine (to an extent) with some decent exhaust manifolds to get the turbo to spool up a bit quicker - 1970's turbo design doesn't help much either - modren roller bearing items help a lot..

The steering wheel is terrible - replacing with an RS item and fooling the airbag light with a resistor helps the feel of the helm enormously

The understeer / oversteer trait can be improved with a better LSD but this town driving / 3 point turns quite crack and jolty...

All the above, is of course irrelevant - the 964 car from the factory is compromised - fact - it's just soooooooo much better when it's (ahem) enhanced a wee bit! The 964 is still the best Porsche in my eyes for many reasons - it's time shall come!!

Had the pleasure of driving a 996 turbo recently and whilst its a heavy beastie - it is mighty capable - you could mesaure your licence life in minutes if you were stupid...

[PascalBuyens]

youngsyr said:

At a guess there are some model years in there for the last two digits for some, but 991 just comes out of nowhere?

991= 911, design change number 9 aka rear lights replaced with LEDs and hey presto, THE ultimate new Porsche.

[DJRC]

964T S Lwt.

Automotive crack. The kick when 3000rpm hits is hilarious and then the rate it goes from there to 6000rpm is just...well, I dont think you could get tired of that hit.

The stand out, most hilariously awesomely addictive car Ive ever driven. Utterly, utterly life affirming in the way that all situations where you think "Oh st I am so going to die!" are.

Loved it.