Lloyds programmable engine management & cam change.
Discussion
I have had intermittent poor running issues for some time, running very very rich generally, had a couple of TVR specialists look at it and can't find the problem just suggest changing parts and see if it improves. I have changed lambda sensors, & water temperature sensors, cleaned steeper motor etc. I have bought a simple fault reader for the ECU to test when it is playing up but just reads no faults. My thinking is if I get rid of air flow meter , dizzy and other sensors, possible faulty ECU and fit this programmable unit with crank sensor I will be able to sort it out.
minirace said:
I have had intermittent poor running issues for some time, running very very rich generally, had a couple of TVR specialists look at it and can't find the problem just suggest changing parts and see if it improves. I have changed lambda sensors, & water temperature sensors, cleaned steeper motor etc. I have bought a simple fault reader for the ECU to test when it is playing up but just reads no faults. My thinking is if I get rid of air flow meter , dizzy and other sensors, possible faulty ECU and fit this programmable unit with crank sensor I will be able to sort it out.
Changing the ECU is an expensive option to cure a poor running issue, although I can see where you are coming from as often I contemplate ditching the Lucas for something more simple when it comes to finding those niggling faults. The Steve Heath ECU Mate has however made my life much easier with the Lucas system as I can see exactly what all the various EFI components are doing. The manual is a good read as it explains exactly what each sensor does and how it should perform. No more replacing as many parts as possible in a blind frenzy to fix issues.
http://ecumate.com/docs/Ecumate%20inst.pdf
A couple of parts that are worth replacing if not replaced recently are the dizzy cap and rotor arm. Make sure they are OE Lucas parts as some of the aftermarket products are not very reliable.
If you really want to get the best out of your 14CUX then you can always get it mapped by Mark Adams:
http://matthewpoxon.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/mappi...
minirace said:
Thanks jojackson, just looked at rover gauge link, it looks good, is the lead and connector easy to get & make?
The Lucas connectors are impossible to get hold of now , so I have to make connectors from scratch which is fiddly or you might be lucky and still have the loop back plug in the TVR loom that goes into the TTS connector, and that could be made to work. You need programmable USB serial cable and a couple of resistors as well. There are details on the Rover Gauge site.http://alum.wpi.edu/~colinb/14cux_interface.html
I do have kits available in the PH classified for not a lot under the TVR section if you dont want the bother of making your own.
minirace said:
I am thinking of fitting the Lloyds engine management system to my 94 Chim 430, it has only done 40k but I don't use it much so I think a cam change may be in order before I upgrade, has anyone had experience in this system and cam you recommend a cam spec.
Best regards
Neal
It will be the best thing you will have done to your car. The 430 engine has a Kent 214 cam. If you retain this cam with an aftermarket ecu it will drive like a Range Rover low down but also rev like never before. I have this cam in my 430 and it will now run at 1k rpm if i ask it to with zero shunting. Engine has never run as good. Best regards
Neal
blitzracing said:
I do have kits available in the PH classified for not a lot under the TVR section if you dont want the bother of making your own.
Also works with Vista and worth every penny:http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-p...
carsy said:
minirace said:
I am thinking of fitting the Lloyds engine management system to my 94 Chim 430, it has only done 40k but I don't use it much so I think a cam change may be in order before I upgrade, has anyone had experience in this system and cam you recommend a cam spec.
Best regards
Neal
It will be the best thing you will have done to your car. The 430 engine has a Kent 214 cam. If you retain this cam with an aftermarket ecu it will drive like a Range Rover low down but also rev like never before. I have this cam in my 430 and it will now run at 1k rpm if i ask it to with zero shunting. Engine has never run as good. Best regards
Neal
The Lloyd team are very very good, the Canems system they fit is excellent too.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the 14CUX fuelling system when its working correctly, and these days there are ways to interrogate it for faults.
But you still can't map it, unless your name is Mark Adams.
If you are fine with this then you may wish to stay with the 14CUX, but just remember you're still stuck with the distributor.
And the distributor is the one thing you could really do with replacing, a fully mappable 3D ignition system is light years ahead of a distributor and will deliver improvements you can feel in many areas.
It's not strictly true to say you're stuck with the distributor with Mark Adams, he himself acknowledges a mappable spark will give big benefits.
So he offers the Omex 200 mappable ignition system, he used the AFM to provide the load sensing function which is quite a nice idea until you realise he still needs to map both systems separately.
Given that ignition timing & fuelling both work hand in hand it's highly preferable to have a fully integrated fuel & ignition engine management system you can map using one piece of software.
You get all this with all modern stand alone engine management systems; MegaSquirt, Canems, Emerald, Omex ect ect.
If you stick with the 14CUX, even if you ditch the distributor for mappable ignition like the Omex 200, you still end up in the hands of Mark Adams, and with two systems that aren't mapped using the same software.
One mapper, one engine load sensor, two systems that need to work together, two different pieces of software.
Mark Adams is a clever juggler, but why juggle in the first place?
Fit a modern stand alone engine management system and life becomes a lot simpler, achieving the same & probably better results is therefore a damn sight easier & more flexible.
Ask yourself this:
"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
If it's installed properly & mapped well, you'll never look back.
The Canems system fitted by Lloyd Specialist Developments is just one highly recommended proven path to success, but it's a very very good one too.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 13th May 22:36
ChimpOnGas said:
+1
/snip
The Lloyd team are very very good, the Canems system they fit is excellent too.
The distributor is the one thing you could really do with replacing, a fully mappable 3D ignition system is light years ahead of a distributor and will deliver improvements you can feel in many areas.
^^^^^^ This!!!/snip
The Lloyd team are very very good, the Canems system they fit is excellent too.
The distributor is the one thing you could really do with replacing, a fully mappable 3D ignition system is light years ahead of a distributor and will deliver improvements you can feel in many areas.
A performance engine really needs a mappable spark to get the most out of it.
On the Lloyds front - the chaps down there are real enthusiasts and proper engineers. When I dropped my car off they were working on a Mk2 Jag with a modern supercharged V8 and fitting a Peugeot Dimma with a Mitsi Evo engine!! Total confidence in them and their product.
Pointless me repeating everything Chimpongas said but it's all true and I can personally vouch for the dedication of the Lloyd brothers, the excellence of the Canems ecu and after sales support, the quality of the Lloyds kit (especially the loom) and the dedication that goes into the mapping. Other products are available of course. Yes it's an expensive move but...over-used word coming up...it really has, cough, transformed my car. So smooth, reliable, powerful and predictable. Lloyds are 197 miles away from me and I still use them because they are worth the journey. All in my opinion, obviously.
KateV8 said:
Pointless me repeating everything Chimpongas said but it's all true and I can personally vouch for the dedication of the Lloyd brothers, the excellence of the Canems ecu and after sales support, the quality of the Lloyds kit (especially the loom) and the dedication that goes into the mapping. Other products are available of course. Yes it's an expensive move but...over-used word coming up...it really has, cough, transformed my car. So smooth, reliable, powerful and predictable. Lloyds are 197 miles away from me and I still use them because they are worth the journey. All in my opinion, obviously.
Out of interest, please can you tell me when did you have your Canems system fitted, and how many times have you had to return to deepest Wiltshire to have it adjusted? And what was the reason for the adjustments? I am a similar distance from them, but a lot nearer some of the other suppliers, and there's only so many times I want to go visit the relatives in South Wayels each year.ChimpOnGas said:
Ask yourself this:
"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
Then ask yourself this:"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
"Why is it the majority of owners have not needed to because a well set up Lucas system does very little less for no extra outlay?"
You pays your money .................
Ribol said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Ask yourself this:
"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
Then ask yourself this:"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
"Why is it the majority of owners have not needed to because a well set up Lucas system does very little less for no extra outlay?"
You pays your money .................
QBee said:
Ribol said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Ask yourself this:
"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
Then ask yourself this:"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
"Why is it the majority of owners have not needed to because a well set up Lucas system does very little less for no extra outlay?"
You pays your money .................
QBee said:
Could this have something to do with modifying.....if you keep everything standard, then the Lucas if fine, but if you modify anything under the bonnet, then you need to adjust the ECU, and that is where Lucas system does not cope as well?
It is a fallacy that the Lucas system is crude and difficult to adapt, yes you're stuck with Mark Adams if you want to map the car but there are more cars running the Lucas than other systems. Yes it's an 'old system' lacking some modern features but it's also managing the systems of an old engine that runs without the additional complications. I'd guess the majority of peoples 'issues' are down to failing components, wiring and an ageing installation that wasn't 100% right from the factory when new.
My car has modified induction (72mm bits)carbon trumpets, bigger injectors, tornado chip and a recent cam and it runs like a dream (30mph at 1500rpm in 5th) I'll lay odds there are some modified cars with aftermarket ECUs that don't run as well as mine.
nI guess there are two camps : running well and running well with extra performance. If all you want is running well then stick with what you've got, there's no cheaper ecu than the one you already own. Once you start modifying though the picture does change. It's funny : 15years ago when I was starting out fitting all this new-fangled aftermarket ecu stuff it was commonplace to be shouted down for changing the lucas ecu. Now 15 years later it's largely the norm to change it as part of a programme of upgrades. In fact i'm surprised we still have these threads on ph!
QBee said:
Ribol said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Ask yourself this:
"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
Then ask yourself this:"How many people who have moved to a more modern fully integrated stand alone engine management system, go back to the Lucas system?"
"Why is it the majority of owners have not needed to because a well set up Lucas system does very little less for no extra outlay?"
You pays your money .................
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