ECU's - A can of worms...
Discussion
A replacement ECU is something I have planned for early next year, but it's also something I'm a little confused and interested about, so I'd thought I'd start a new thread. If I feel confused about them, then I'm sure there are others on the forum that are the same and I know there's a shed load of experience on here.
I appreciate the difficulties in mapping 14cux, or not mapping as the case may be and I also understand why people suggest get a mappable ECU. However, what I don't understand is the difference between the various types of after market ECU's such as Megasquirt, Canems, Emerald etc and how difficult these are to wire in.
There's a lot of additional things, such as wideband Lambda sensors, wasted spark ignition coils, EDIS, knock sensors etc. I'm not sure what the differences between the systems are.
As a starting point, what would be the best (pre-made) ECU for a 500 to improve performance and drivability; for getting rid of the AFM/ dizzy. What would I need as a starting point? What system is most suitable and how difficult are they to wire in? The reason I say 'pre-made' is because my soldering isn't great, so wouldn't want to solder the MS board myself.
I've seen some of the stuff on ExtraEFI http://www.extraefi.co.uk/RV8_Kits.html#pnp
and Trigger Wheels http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31..., but still none the wiser really.
Is it worth going for an ignition ECU only as temporary measure, such as these:
Nodis: http://www.nodiz.co.uk
Aldon Amethyst http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/product.asp?strPar...
Meagjolt http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d35...
Would there be any performance gains? What would they be?
I appreciate the difficulties in mapping 14cux, or not mapping as the case may be and I also understand why people suggest get a mappable ECU. However, what I don't understand is the difference between the various types of after market ECU's such as Megasquirt, Canems, Emerald etc and how difficult these are to wire in.
There's a lot of additional things, such as wideband Lambda sensors, wasted spark ignition coils, EDIS, knock sensors etc. I'm not sure what the differences between the systems are.
As a starting point, what would be the best (pre-made) ECU for a 500 to improve performance and drivability; for getting rid of the AFM/ dizzy. What would I need as a starting point? What system is most suitable and how difficult are they to wire in? The reason I say 'pre-made' is because my soldering isn't great, so wouldn't want to solder the MS board myself.
I've seen some of the stuff on ExtraEFI http://www.extraefi.co.uk/RV8_Kits.html#pnp
and Trigger Wheels http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31..., but still none the wiser really.
Is it worth going for an ignition ECU only as temporary measure, such as these:
Nodis: http://www.nodiz.co.uk
Aldon Amethyst http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/product.asp?strPar...
Meagjolt http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d35...
Would there be any performance gains? What would they be?
chris1972 said:
A replacement ECU is something I have planned for early next year, but it's also something I'm a little confused and interested about, so I'd thought I'd start a new thread. If I feel confused about them, then I'm sure there are others on the forum that are the same and I know there's a shed load of experience on here.
I appreciate the difficulties in mapping 14cux, or not mapping as the case may be and I also understand why people suggest get a mappable ECU. However, what I don't understand is the difference between the various types of after market ECU's such as Megasquirt, Canems, Emerald etc and how difficult these are to wire in.
There's a lot of additional things, such as wideband Lambda sensors, wasted spark ignition coils, EDIS, knock sensors etc. I'm not sure what the differences between the systems are.
As a starting point, what would be the best (pre-made) ECU for a 500 to improve performance and drivability; for getting rid of the AFM/ dizzy. What would I need as a starting point? What system is most suitable and how difficult are they to wire in? The reason I say 'pre-made' is because my soldering isn't great, so wouldn't want to solder the MS board myself.
I've seen some of the stuff on ExtraEFI http://www.extraefi.co.uk/RV8_Kits.html#pnp
and Trigger Wheels http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31..., but still none the wiser really.
Is it worth going for an ignition ECU only as temporary measure, such as these:
Nodis: http://www.nodiz.co.uk
Aldon Amethyst http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/product.asp?strPar...
Meagjolt http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d35...
Would there be any performance gains? What would they be?
+1 looking my self for next year same car (500)I appreciate the difficulties in mapping 14cux, or not mapping as the case may be and I also understand why people suggest get a mappable ECU. However, what I don't understand is the difference between the various types of after market ECU's such as Megasquirt, Canems, Emerald etc and how difficult these are to wire in.
There's a lot of additional things, such as wideband Lambda sensors, wasted spark ignition coils, EDIS, knock sensors etc. I'm not sure what the differences between the systems are.
As a starting point, what would be the best (pre-made) ECU for a 500 to improve performance and drivability; for getting rid of the AFM/ dizzy. What would I need as a starting point? What system is most suitable and how difficult are they to wire in? The reason I say 'pre-made' is because my soldering isn't great, so wouldn't want to solder the MS board myself.
I've seen some of the stuff on ExtraEFI http://www.extraefi.co.uk/RV8_Kits.html#pnp
and Trigger Wheels http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31..., but still none the wiser really.
Is it worth going for an ignition ECU only as temporary measure, such as these:
Nodis: http://www.nodiz.co.uk
Aldon Amethyst http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/product.asp?strPar...
Meagjolt http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d35...
Would there be any performance gains? What would they be?
None of them are difficult to wire in... The difficulty is that folks neglect to clear out all the gubbins that were necessary for the complete as delivered LR loom to plug into the TVR... speed sensor, 100's of LR factory options like a/c / starter sensing.... and try to merge the new ecu to the existing marriage of the TVR + LR which only adds to the "witches brew"?
Typically 50 odd circuits can be ripped out, and my own personal favourite of shifting the fan relays to the nosecone & shifting the ecu relays into the fusebox. However stripping out the loom & fully rewiring "less Lucas" is quite a daunting exercise, but for anyone with patience and an eye for detail is not insurmountable just time consuming. As is separating some of the dash from the ecu stuff.
If you could imagine starting from a clean sheet, the ecu wiring really is as simple as the vendors wiring diagrams illustrate.
Typically 50 odd circuits can be ripped out, and my own personal favourite of shifting the fan relays to the nosecone & shifting the ecu relays into the fusebox. However stripping out the loom & fully rewiring "less Lucas" is quite a daunting exercise, but for anyone with patience and an eye for detail is not insurmountable just time consuming. As is separating some of the dash from the ecu stuff.
If you could imagine starting from a clean sheet, the ecu wiring really is as simple as the vendors wiring diagrams illustrate.
You have no data to work with to start with, so you cant even hazzard a guess. First point of call is a rolling road for a basic BHP and fueling test to show up whats wrong if anything. If the 14CUX is fueling OK, and the ignition timiming as should be, you wont see any big power gains. If the car does not shunt and passes emmission test, again you are on a winner as you are. Most people upgrade because of the lack of flexibilty on programming the 14CUX when you upgrade the engine, or have faults they cant fix. Dont for one minute think you can do a cheap ECU upgrade and be done with it- just look at the post about "mappers unite" or pay your proper money and someone else like Lloyd sort it for you if you are not confident. There are so many parameters to set up to get an engine to run well in all conditions, you need to understand the size of the task you are undertaking if its DIY.
Agree with the 2 posts above and especially agree with the Line about "don't expect power gains if running a relatively standard engine".
The standard Lucas system is very good for a standard ish car.
Gains will be made with big valve heads, lairy cams and the like where you can tune the software to your hardware.
The standard Lucas system is very good for a standard ish car.
Gains will be made with big valve heads, lairy cams and the like where you can tune the software to your hardware.
phazed said:
Agree with the 2 posts above and especially agree with the Line about "don't expect power gains if running a relatively standard engine".
The standard Lucas system is very good for a standard ish car.
Gains will be made with big valve heads, lairy cams and the like where you can tune the software to your hardware.
Going for a RR in the next week to see what I have to start with before any thing is doneThe standard Lucas system is very good for a standard ish car.
Gains will be made with big valve heads, lairy cams and the like where you can tune the software to your hardware.
Not sure but I think I may have a cam lobe down hopefully the out come of the RR will point the finger
This is why I have jumped on if cam fubard new cam followers wich one ? I do not whant to be held back on choice due to the ecu plus what ever may turn up in the post
But for now it's running and hopefully for the rest of the year so it is getting nothing until the snow turns up
For now more reading from the gents who have been there and done it
Okay, I understand...
I have a fair amount of shunting, which means I have to drop down a gear. However, there does seem to be an issue with the long term trim as identified by Roverguage and I suspect this is because the car was originally remapped two years ago to accommodate the Bosch red top injectors, but has since had an replacement ECU, which I think just has the standard 5.0L Cat map. The car also has a Kent 218 cam, which may not be included on the standard map. I appreciate that the 218 is not the best for BHP, but good for longevity and all round performance. The last RR was 7k miles ago (three years) and came out at 274BHP (standard lucas injectors).
So I'm assuming the current map doesn't account for the new injectors and won't account for the decat or intake mods and possibly not the cam.
I have no issues sticking with 14CUX, but it doesn't seem to be mappable by anyone other than Mark Adams. This is why I ask. So perhaps a mappable fuel system is what is needed... hence me delving into the world of ECU's.
I have a fair amount of shunting, which means I have to drop down a gear. However, there does seem to be an issue with the long term trim as identified by Roverguage and I suspect this is because the car was originally remapped two years ago to accommodate the Bosch red top injectors, but has since had an replacement ECU, which I think just has the standard 5.0L Cat map. The car also has a Kent 218 cam, which may not be included on the standard map. I appreciate that the 218 is not the best for BHP, but good for longevity and all round performance. The last RR was 7k miles ago (three years) and came out at 274BHP (standard lucas injectors).
So I'm assuming the current map doesn't account for the new injectors and won't account for the decat or intake mods and possibly not the cam.
I have no issues sticking with 14CUX, but it doesn't seem to be mappable by anyone other than Mark Adams. This is why I ask. So perhaps a mappable fuel system is what is needed... hence me delving into the world of ECU's.
phazed said:
274 is sound for a 5.0.
Austec will remap your chip but is the cost worth it.
If you go for an MS package and a new loom, )piece of cake to fit) and get it mapped, the added costs will be worth it in the end.
The last remap at Austec was £500 and that was two years ago after the injectors were replaced with the Bosch ones. That's almost the cost of an aftermarket ECU. I appreciate I don't have extreme mods, but I would like a few more horses, hence my recent induction and cat mods. I've looked at the TorqueFlow and yes it looks good, but very expensive for what amounts to a closed system.Austec will remap your chip but is the cost worth it.
If you go for an MS package and a new loom, )piece of cake to fit) and get it mapped, the added costs will be worth it in the end.
I see Blitz seems to have hit on something with the Amethyst and a trigger wheel to map the fuel. I was going to pop over and see Mark in the second half of June, so I may wait to see what he comes up with!
What sort of costs are looking at to get it mapped with a MS system?
If your fueling is correct on the 14 cux the only gain will be with the mapped spark. This aint going to give you another 50 bhp but it will make the engine run very smoothly unless you have a silly cam. It will also make it rev far more responsively which i suppose it what makes it feel quicker.
Do not underestimate the task of fitting a new ecu with new loom. Its not rocket science but there is a fair bit of work / time involved. I think mrsupercharged was going to do a step by step write up in the very near future. Maybe he is nearly there with his write up.
Do not underestimate the task of fitting a new ecu with new loom. Its not rocket science but there is a fair bit of work / time involved. I think mrsupercharged was going to do a step by step write up in the very near future. Maybe he is nearly there with his write up.
carsy said:
If your fueling is correct on the 14 cux the only gain will be with the mapped spark. This aint going to give you another 50 bhp but it will make the engine run very smoothly unless you have a silly cam. It will also make it rev far more responsively which i suppose it what makes it feel quicker.
Do not underestimate the task of fitting a new ecu with new loom. Its not rocket science but there is a fair bit of work / time involved. I think mrsupercharged was going to do a step by step write up in the very near future. Maybe he is nearly there with his write up.
I don't think my fuelling is totally correct at the moment. It is running the standard 5.0l CAT map according to Roverguage, but has issues with the longterm trim, which is giving me an ECU checksum error. I'm not sure if a 218 cam is standard in map terms either. I will have decatted this pretty shortly, so it will be off again.Do not underestimate the task of fitting a new ecu with new loom. Its not rocket science but there is a fair bit of work / time involved. I think mrsupercharged was going to do a step by step write up in the very near future. Maybe he is nearly there with his write up.
special offer- mobile tuning to your door for 150 quid. Never used them but seems a good price.
http://www.customtuning.co.uk/mobile_ecu_remapping...
no TVR listed but the Rover V8 is, in a few different cars.
http://www.customtuning.co.uk/mobile_ecu_remapping...
no TVR listed but the Rover V8 is, in a few different cars.
blitzracing said:
Unfortuately for you the engines listed are GEMS ECU based, not 14CUX, so you are still stuck.
Then I would use Shaun.http://www.ms2tuning.com/
As recommended by ExtraEFI.
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