Head Gasket

[sundance002]

Have just noticed that the occasional puff of white smoke is coming from exhaust, and also my boost was down a little by 0.2 bar, also the car ran a bit lumpy on idle when fully warmed up. Terry suggested that it was the head gasket leaking pressure and spraying water into the block causing the white smoke, so took it into Bespoke and Skip done a test on the header tank and it showed the water had been slightly contaminated with oil when it changed colour. good little gadget,
anyway turns out as I should of known really, but just never thought about it, the head gasket cannot take this kind of boost, so the positive Is I caught it early and now I know the weak link in the engine.
The question is, what is the best way forward, I was told that in the States they do something thats not a Wells ring, does anyone know what that might be? Terry has suggested using the wells rings along with cutting a groove and and some other things that I have forgotten that completely seal the head and have withstood 3bar of boost, whats people think?

[mgbond]

sundance002 said:

Have just noticed that the occasional puff of white smoke is coming from exhaust, and also my boost was down a little by 0.2 bar, also the car ran a bit lumpy on idle when fully warmed up. Terry suggested that it was the head gasket leaking pressure and spraying water into the block causing the white smoke, so took it into Bespoke and Skip done a test on the header tank and it showed the water had been slightly contaminated with oil when it changed colour. good little gadget,
anyway turns out as I should of known really, but just never thought about it, the head gasket cannot take this kind of boost, so the positive Is I caught it early and now I know the weak link in the engine.
The question is, what is the best way forward, I was told that in the States they do something thats not a Wells ring, does anyone know what that might be? Terry has suggested using the wells rings along with cutting a groove and and some other things that I have forgotten that completely seal the head and have withstood 3bar of boost, whats people think?

What boost are u running and what head bolts do u have. What torque did you use?

[sundance002]

mgbond said:

sundance002 said:

Have just noticed that the occasional puff of white smoke is coming from exhaust, and also my boost was down a little by 0.2 bar, also the car ran a bit lumpy on idle when fully warmed up. Terry suggested that it was the head gasket leaking pressure and spraying water into the block causing the white smoke, so took it into Bespoke and Skip done a test on the header tank and it showed the water had been slightly contaminated with oil when it changed colour. good little gadget,
anyway turns out as I should of known really, but just never thought about it, the head gasket cannot take this kind of boost, so the positive Is I caught it early and now I know the weak link in the engine.
The question is, what is the best way forward, I was told that in the States they do something thats not a Wells ring, does anyone know what that might be? Terry has suggested using the wells rings along with cutting a groove and and some other things that I have forgotten that completely seal the head and have withstood 3bar of boost, whats people think?

What boost are u running and what head bolts do u have. What torque did you use?

Hello Mr Bond, because I run 7 settings it ranges from 0.6 to 1.8 bar, its a Mountune engine so whatever they recommend to use. But it seems that it is not going to be reliable with this set up and will be a constant problem, bearing in mind its engine out job each time. I have now been told that it was never designed to take that boost and would be must upgrade.

[mgbond]

Was just curious what settings they used. Would be interested in what you come up with

[sundance002]

mgbond said:

Was just curious what settings they used. Would be interested in what you come up with

Will find out for you. The States have already a tested method I have heard.
Terry also has a method that works in the GT cars running huge-boost just waiting all the info

[mgbond]

I don't run boost anywhere near your but the 2.5s do have an issue with head gaskets. So always interested in other ideas.

[andygtt]

I ran 1.7 bar on the previous iteration of my engine and in 6k miles of running only full host I didn't have a failure... Few others if the high boost clan have though and I think it's down to how the heads are torqued down.

The upgraded arp bolts are supposed to retorqued after a set amount of miles or you need to do a set sequence as recommended by arp.

Will keep an eye on mine to see if it has a similar issue, although I'm running loads less boost now... Kinda wish I'd done a 1.8bar run now lol :-)

[Hollowpockets]

Admittedly I don't run high boost regularly now but It spikes to 2 bar before dropping to 1.5 and head gaskets have never failed.

Bearings failed before the gaskets did on the last engine which I dished out high boost to regularly.

For the cost why don't you just get a fresh gasket, set of ARP bolts and have it sorted in a day, it might last a lot longer next time, at least get you through summer. Then look at alternatives in the meantime.

[sundance002]

Hollowpockets said:

Admittedly I don't run high boost regularly now but It spikes to 2 bar before dropping to 1.5 and head gaskets have never failed.

Bearings failed before the gaskets did on the last engine which I dished out high boost to regularly.

For the cost why don't you just get a fresh gasket, set of ARP bolts and have it sorted in a day, it might last a lot longer next time, at least get you through summer. Then look at alternatives in the meantime.

ARP bolts already fitted and re torqued the head before this started. After many conversations with various people I have come to the conclusion this may be a re occurring problem as gaskets are not designed to take that pressure, really should be on N/A engines only so Ive been told. so will fit something else.

[Adrian W]

sundance002 said:

ARP bolts already fitted and re torqued the head before this started. After many conversations with various people I have come to the conclusion this may be a re occurring problem as gaskets are not designed to take that pressure, really should be on N/A engines only so Ive been told. so will fit something else.

How can it be a reoccurring problem if yours is the only engine this is happening to?

[andygtt]

Adrian W said:

sundance002 said:

ARP bolts already fitted and re torqued the head before this started. After many conversations with various people I have come to the conclusion this may be a re occurring problem as gaskets are not designed to take that pressure, really should be on N/A engines only so Ive been told. so will fit something else.

How can it be a reoccurring problem if yours is the only engine this is happening to?

because its also happened to 2 other cars running 600+bhp... however as far as i'm aware neither of those cars had the heads re-torqued!

[sundance002]

Adrian W said:

How can it be a reoccurring problem if yours is the only engine this is happening to?

They have had this problem in the states running big boost and designed something that doesn't use a gasket.
Maybe im the first, but then there are not many of us running this type of boost.
Its the first time ive had this problem, hopefully you guys with big power wont, but as we have only just reached over the 600 bracket in the last year Makes that a bit of a silly comment, as we are still finding out where problems may arrise I believe mine wont be the last to suffer, time will tell.

[Adrian W]

The old fashioned way of fixing this is machining a grove into the block, a metal O ring and an annealed copper head gasket, but it is usually done for much higher pressures than this.

[sundance002]

Adrian W said:

The old fashioned way of fixing this is machining a grove into the block, a metal O ring and an annealed copper head gasket, but it is usually done for much higher pressures than this.

Thats what I thought, and Terry suggested, normally you would see this on cars running 3 bar.

The leak is so fine, that it never showed on a pressure test, so until we take it apart, We don't know which cylinder, probably the size of a pin head, It only shows up in the contamination test on the header tank.

[Adrian W]

sundance002 said:

Thats what I thought, and Terry suggested, normally you would see this on cars running 3 bar.

The leak is so fine, that it never showed on a pressure test, so until we take it apart, We don't know which cylinder, probably the size of a pin head, It only shows up in the contamination test on the header tank.

If they did a leak down test, you'd think the % difference would show the weakness, a pinhole can only get worse

[Gadgeroonie]

head gasket failures was very common on cosworth engines but has been fixed with a triple layer metal gasket - i wonder if you could get some made by the same manufacturers

the other thing that works well is to remove the head bolts and fit studs - you then bolt the head down using nuts

is there any difference between a jag/ford/mazda head gasket ?

i think using studs is worth a go

[F.C.]

"piano wired" and copper gasket should sort the problem for good.
Used this in some V hairy bike engines with great success.

[Adrian W]

F.C. said:

"piano wired" and copper gasket should sort the problem for good.
Used this in some V hairy bike engines with great success.

We did it with 1424 Suzuki drag bikes running 13.5:1 and revving to 16k, next weak spot was the titanium valve retainers.

[andygtt]

Gadgeroonie said:

head gasket failures was very common on cosworth engines but has been fixed with a triple layer metal gasket - i wonder if you could get some made by the same manufacturers

the other thing that works well is to remove the head bolts and fit studs - you then bolt the head down using nuts

is there any difference between a jag/ford/mazda head gasket ?

i think using studs is worth a go

Jag head flows the water the wrong way so gaskets can't be used as the holes are in wrong places, we are already using studs as that's what the arp ones are, with the cossie the block flexed so you fitted long studs which fixed it as the issue... Don't think that is the case on ours.

[GTO600]

sundance002 said:

Have just noticed that the occasional puff of white smoke is coming from exhaust, and also my boost was down a little by 0.2 bar, also the car ran a bit lumpy on idle when fully warmed up. Terry suggested that it was the head gasket leaking pressure and spraying water into the block causing the white smoke, so took it into Bespoke and Skip done a test on the header tank and it showed the water had been slightly contaminated with oil when it changed colour. good little gadget,
anyway turns out as I should of known really, but just never thought about it, the head gasket cannot take this kind of boost, so the positive Is I caught it early and now I know the weak link in the engine.
The question is, what is the best way forward, I was told that in the States they do something thats not a Wells ring, does anyone know what that might be? Terry has suggested using the wells rings along with cutting a groove and and some other things that I have forgotten that completely seal the head and have withstood 3bar of boost, whats people think?

Craig, how did you get on with your head gasket issue ?