Insurance Claim: Need opinions
Discussion
Let me set the scene:
I was waiting behind a car on a busy street yesterday, so he may exit his parking space for me to occupy. After waiting for about 2 minutes, the guy (in a Vectra) starts to pull out. As he does this, I notice another car on the opposite side of the road (406) indicating to fill this space that I had waited ages for. As you do on a busy street, I slowly creep into the space to signal my intentions to the 406. Then this guy in the vectra decides that he wanted to do a u-turn, unknown to him that I had crept into some of the space he just left. As part of the u-turn, he reverses right into me, scuffing my front o/s wing and bumper.
I asked the guy why he was not looking behind him whilst reversing. He claims "I know I should have been looking but you should never have been there. You could clearly see I was about to do a u-turn". Anyway, did not get into an argument but exchanged details. I also spoke with his insurance company over the phone (to ensure he does have a policy as I have been done before with fake details).
There were two (independent) witnesses who both claimed it was his fault. His partners (in his car) obviously fully supports his position
My car needs a new o/s front wing and the bumper re-sprayed. It also needs an alloy re-furbushed and am insisting on a geometry check. Not bad as the bumper had started to show signs of motorway driving (stone chips).
Now questions:
1) Am I at fault, bearing in mind my car was stationery at the point of collision. Perhaps I should have waited longer to see what was happening b4 mvoing into the space but am I at fault?
2) The porker is fully comp and the insurance company have given me a list of approved repairers but to be honest, I am not particularly keen on taking my porsche to a land rover dealer just becuase he is an approved repairer.
So can I insist on who repairs my car?
I have already visited the only 3 places I would take my car and estimate from one is around £2k. Not sure if they are on the insurance approved list though! Might as well claim on insurance if its going to cost that much, particularly as the 3 repairers I approached confirmed that its purely cosmetic and won't appear on any register. Was concerned about it being Cat D
3) I have also been referred to a company who would provide a "like for like courtesy car" whilst the car is being repaired. I get a choice of another Porsche, Maserati or Ferrari. However, this is only applicable if the accident is not my fault as they have to reclaim the hire cost from the 3rd party. So at what stage would this "fault" be decided. I have uninsured loss recovery cover and intend to fight for everything, including my excess.
4) Looking through my policy yesterday, I noted a difference between the confirmation paper you get and the schedule. The schedule shows that my NCD is protected, which it should be (10 years) as I have protected it for the last 6 (second year with this insurer). However, the confirmation shows no protection. Which is binding?
I was waiting behind a car on a busy street yesterday, so he may exit his parking space for me to occupy. After waiting for about 2 minutes, the guy (in a Vectra) starts to pull out. As he does this, I notice another car on the opposite side of the road (406) indicating to fill this space that I had waited ages for. As you do on a busy street, I slowly creep into the space to signal my intentions to the 406. Then this guy in the vectra decides that he wanted to do a u-turn, unknown to him that I had crept into some of the space he just left. As part of the u-turn, he reverses right into me, scuffing my front o/s wing and bumper.
I asked the guy why he was not looking behind him whilst reversing. He claims "I know I should have been looking but you should never have been there. You could clearly see I was about to do a u-turn". Anyway, did not get into an argument but exchanged details. I also spoke with his insurance company over the phone (to ensure he does have a policy as I have been done before with fake details).
There were two (independent) witnesses who both claimed it was his fault. His partners (in his car) obviously fully supports his position
My car needs a new o/s front wing and the bumper re-sprayed. It also needs an alloy re-furbushed and am insisting on a geometry check. Not bad as the bumper had started to show signs of motorway driving (stone chips).
Now questions:
1) Am I at fault, bearing in mind my car was stationery at the point of collision. Perhaps I should have waited longer to see what was happening b4 mvoing into the space but am I at fault?
2) The porker is fully comp and the insurance company have given me a list of approved repairers but to be honest, I am not particularly keen on taking my porsche to a land rover dealer just becuase he is an approved repairer.
So can I insist on who repairs my car?
I have already visited the only 3 places I would take my car and estimate from one is around £2k. Not sure if they are on the insurance approved list though! Might as well claim on insurance if its going to cost that much, particularly as the 3 repairers I approached confirmed that its purely cosmetic and won't appear on any register. Was concerned about it being Cat D
3) I have also been referred to a company who would provide a "like for like courtesy car" whilst the car is being repaired. I get a choice of another Porsche, Maserati or Ferrari. However, this is only applicable if the accident is not my fault as they have to reclaim the hire cost from the 3rd party. So at what stage would this "fault" be decided. I have uninsured loss recovery cover and intend to fight for everything, including my excess.
4) Looking through my policy yesterday, I noted a difference between the confirmation paper you get and the schedule. The schedule shows that my NCD is protected, which it should be (10 years) as I have protected it for the last 6 (second year with this insurer). However, the confirmation shows no protection. Which is binding?
1) It sounds like it is his fault as he reversed into you. He should not assume that hazards are exactly where they were a few seconds ago.
The chances are that the insurers will simply do knock for knock tho', ie 'just one of those things, bit of blame all round'. When they do this they will try to take away your NCB if unprotected. They cannot actually do this as your culpability has not been established (it is too costly for insurance co.s to argue the toss about blame, so they don't bother). Therefore, threaten them with the insurance ombudsman if they don't play ball.
2) Don't get too wound up as this is a very minor incident. Also, partners back up their moronic husbands/wives for marital not logical reasons! I was in a g/f's car when a driver of an illegally parked car (double yellows) opened the door without looking, straight into the side of our passing car. They still tried to blame my g/f, and the tosspot's partner backed him up.... needless to say they didn't get anywhere. They were trying to protect their NCB and get a payout as well - naughty but human nature. It's nothing personal if they defend themselves, even if they should be strung up by Judge Derestrictor.
3) It won't be anything like a Cat D, don't fret. It's unlikely to affect resale much either. Lots of cars have a bit of paint refurb. If it's done well, the wing won't be that noticeable. It's like a parking ding for gawdsake!
4) Any half decent repairer can fix your car. In my experience official Porsche centre repair centres can be just as crap as other places. Yours is an easy repair, don't lose sleep. You may be surprised how good the approved place is, but be prepared to complain if they are rubbish.
5) Like for like courtesy car is not worth it in my opinion. It will be another battle to fight. Your car should take no more than a few days to do (logistically that's a week or two), and a Corsa or Fiesta will let you appreciate your Porsche better afterwards. The like for like people are one reason why insurance is so expensive for us all; they are happy to put in an exorbitant bill in to the insurers, far more than their service is really worth. A simple knock (the damage you say could be fixed for well under a grand with trade contacts) will probably cost as much as 5k to the insurers in total if you do this (2k repair, 1.5k car hire, 1k lawyers etc.). Plus you will have to argue that it was not your fault, which will be a bigger argument that protecting your NCB if there's a bill at stake. If you lose (and there is a 30% chance) then you get the big bill. Not worth it IMO.
6) Protected NCB; if you paid for it you've got it. Check to see whether the underwriter has it on the policy, not just your certificate. It may have been left off because of human error - yours or theirs. In that case, you are technically going to lose it unless you appeal to their sense of goodwill. But this is 70/30 against you.
Hope this helps a little,
Domster
The chances are that the insurers will simply do knock for knock tho', ie 'just one of those things, bit of blame all round'. When they do this they will try to take away your NCB if unprotected. They cannot actually do this as your culpability has not been established (it is too costly for insurance co.s to argue the toss about blame, so they don't bother). Therefore, threaten them with the insurance ombudsman if they don't play ball.
2) Don't get too wound up as this is a very minor incident. Also, partners back up their moronic husbands/wives for marital not logical reasons! I was in a g/f's car when a driver of an illegally parked car (double yellows) opened the door without looking, straight into the side of our passing car. They still tried to blame my g/f, and the tosspot's partner backed him up.... needless to say they didn't get anywhere. They were trying to protect their NCB and get a payout as well - naughty but human nature. It's nothing personal if they defend themselves, even if they should be strung up by Judge Derestrictor.
3) It won't be anything like a Cat D, don't fret. It's unlikely to affect resale much either. Lots of cars have a bit of paint refurb. If it's done well, the wing won't be that noticeable. It's like a parking ding for gawdsake!
4) Any half decent repairer can fix your car. In my experience official Porsche centre repair centres can be just as crap as other places. Yours is an easy repair, don't lose sleep. You may be surprised how good the approved place is, but be prepared to complain if they are rubbish.
5) Like for like courtesy car is not worth it in my opinion. It will be another battle to fight. Your car should take no more than a few days to do (logistically that's a week or two), and a Corsa or Fiesta will let you appreciate your Porsche better afterwards. The like for like people are one reason why insurance is so expensive for us all; they are happy to put in an exorbitant bill in to the insurers, far more than their service is really worth. A simple knock (the damage you say could be fixed for well under a grand with trade contacts) will probably cost as much as 5k to the insurers in total if you do this (2k repair, 1.5k car hire, 1k lawyers etc.). Plus you will have to argue that it was not your fault, which will be a bigger argument that protecting your NCB if there's a bill at stake. If you lose (and there is a 30% chance) then you get the big bill. Not worth it IMO.
6) Protected NCB; if you paid for it you've got it. Check to see whether the underwriter has it on the policy, not just your certificate. It may have been left off because of human error - yours or theirs. In that case, you are technically going to lose it unless you appeal to their sense of goodwill. But this is 70/30 against you.
Hope this helps a little,
Domster
1. His fault, he reversed into you.
2. It is your car, you can have it repaired wherever you like.
3. I also would not worry about a flash courtesy car because a) these do bump up all our premiums b) your car will feel so good when you get it back.
4. If the insurance company go by the book it will be the confirmation (but hopefully it is their error)
2. It is your car, you can have it repaired wherever you like.
3. I also would not worry about a flash courtesy car because a) these do bump up all our premiums b) your car will feel so good when you get it back.
4. If the insurance company go by the book it will be the confirmation (but hopefully it is their error)
thx Guys.
Looks like it might not be as bad as I thought. My wife did not even notice the damage. Still £2k must mean a bit.
I have just had a phone call from Elephant (i.e the 3rd party's insurance company), offering to cover the repair fully! Is that an admission of liability? I spoke to the company who were offering to let me have a like-for-like courtesy car last night and they were on the phone to Elephant this morning. I guess their call must have promted Elephant to call me sharpish.
I am not in the business of trying to rip insurance companies off as the increase in premiums affects us all. So I might just take up Elephant on the offer as this keeps my NCB in tact. Anyway, I get to give their courtesy car a good "thrashing" and appreciate my Porsche better when it comes back. Anyone fancy thrashing a Micra or Fiesta?
The way I see it, its in their interest to settle the repair. I have spoken with 2 legal reps who said it would be near imposssible for them to get out of this one. If I get the repair done on my policy, it would cost them about £5k as Dom said.
Looks like it might not be as bad as I thought. My wife did not even notice the damage. Still £2k must mean a bit.
I have just had a phone call from Elephant (i.e the 3rd party's insurance company), offering to cover the repair fully! Is that an admission of liability? I spoke to the company who were offering to let me have a like-for-like courtesy car last night and they were on the phone to Elephant this morning. I guess their call must have promted Elephant to call me sharpish.
I am not in the business of trying to rip insurance companies off as the increase in premiums affects us all. So I might just take up Elephant on the offer as this keeps my NCB in tact. Anyway, I get to give their courtesy car a good "thrashing" and appreciate my Porsche better when it comes back. Anyone fancy thrashing a Micra or Fiesta?
The way I see it, its in their interest to settle the repair. I have spoken with 2 legal reps who said it would be near imposssible for them to get out of this one. If I get the repair done on my policy, it would cost them about £5k as Dom said.
.There is a insurance claims handler that posts on www.stuttgartnines.co.uk under the name of 'gouldc' who has offered free advice with any insurance claims could be worh a look.
t Looks like having an accident is not all bad news! In fact, this was a very good accident to have!
Got the car back 2 weeks later with the job perfectish! One hairline scratch got caught under the laquer! They got me a new bumper and wing, which means all my stone chips are all gone and they even blew over the bonnet, which had 3 annoying nipple-sized stone chips. All this for £100 excess AND
I got a letter 2 days ago saying the 3rd party insurance company have accepted FULL liability. So my £100 is on its way back.
Oh yeah, I also got to float round in a brand new XJ6 for two weeks. Very very nice for traffic, motorway driving and logging patio slabs from B&Q. The jag had as much toys as you can possibly spec! I didn't even know some of these toys existed on cars e.g push button handbrake, side mirrors that tilt down when you select reverse gear(so you don't kerb your wheels), massaging seats, memory steering wheel position (not just memory seat), mirrors and windscreen that tint to blue at night time etc. Anyway, glad to have the Porsche back, though I dare say, I will miss the JAG.
Got the car back 2 weeks later with the job perfectish! One hairline scratch got caught under the laquer! They got me a new bumper and wing, which means all my stone chips are all gone and they even blew over the bonnet, which had 3 annoying nipple-sized stone chips. All this for £100 excess AND
I got a letter 2 days ago saying the 3rd party insurance company have accepted FULL liability. So my £100 is on its way back.
Oh yeah, I also got to float round in a brand new XJ6 for two weeks. Very very nice for traffic, motorway driving and logging patio slabs from B&Q. The jag had as much toys as you can possibly spec! I didn't even know some of these toys existed on cars e.g push button handbrake, side mirrors that tilt down when you select reverse gear(so you don't kerb your wheels), massaging seats, memory steering wheel position (not just memory seat), mirrors and windscreen that tint to blue at night time etc. Anyway, glad to have the Porsche back, though I dare say, I will miss the JAG.
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