griffith or chimaera?? what to look for and where to buy?
Discussion
Hi folks, hoping someone can post some useful links or experiences of these, pros/cons, real performance stats (i heard few make claimed hp?)
i have my heart set on a griff, but if the chim is better all round car i may have to reevaluate.
just looking for general info, what sort of prices am i looking at for good/bad ones, (i see a massive difference in price), insurance costs (am 31, 10+ ncb, no points) and have driven high performance vehicles before.
costs for general repairs/service items, engine weaknesses, suspension problems etc etc??
thanks
i have my heart set on a griff, but if the chim is better all round car i may have to reevaluate.
just looking for general info, what sort of prices am i looking at for good/bad ones, (i see a massive difference in price), insurance costs (am 31, 10+ ncb, no points) and have driven high performance vehicles before.
costs for general repairs/service items, engine weaknesses, suspension problems etc etc??
thanks
much depends on wether you are able to wield a spanner or not
if not, get a dealer or private car with good history and evidence of maintenance and upgrades where appropriate\
If you can wield a spanner, youre options are wider.
i did notice a 11k 500 griff in red on ph atm.....depends on condition as always.......
if not, get a dealer or private car with good history and evidence of maintenance and upgrades where appropriate\
If you can wield a spanner, youre options are wider.
i did notice a 11k 500 griff in red on ph atm.....depends on condition as always.......
Griff and Chim essentially the same car under the cosmetics of interior/exterior.
Griff is rarer, seen as the car that saved TVR and prettier, hence the price premium. Griffs have an annual event too! Chim has a slightly bigger boot but little in it.
All Rover V8's and fairly simple mechanics.
Decide which you prefer and start searching. If you decide on the Griff then the Griff Growl is 5th - 7th of July so get yourself along and see what options suit you best, talk to the owners and get a few beers in.
FFG
Griff is rarer, seen as the car that saved TVR and prettier, hence the price premium. Griffs have an annual event too! Chim has a slightly bigger boot but little in it.
All Rover V8's and fairly simple mechanics.
Decide which you prefer and start searching. If you decide on the Griff then the Griff Growl is 5th - 7th of July so get yourself along and see what options suit you best, talk to the owners and get a few beers in.
FFG
im fairly handy with the spanner, bolt on, bolt off type thing, basic servicing is easy enough id like to think.
not really a welder or restorer thou, that is a bit behond my skills.
when you say there near enough the same car, are we talking exactly same parts (bar the visually obvious), or just in dimensions, driving experience etc.
i did notice the price difference between the two, thou i do prefer looks of the griff.
not really a welder or restorer thou, that is a bit behond my skills.
when you say there near enough the same car, are we talking exactly same parts (bar the visually obvious), or just in dimensions, driving experience etc.
i did notice the price difference between the two, thou i do prefer looks of the griff.
I've had both and there really is nothing much to choose between them except looks and boot size (a little bigger in the Chim and a much more usable shape). Most of the mechanical/electrical parts are identical assuming engine size and age are the same.
This time round I went for a Chim for the simple reason that I got a much nicer example for my budget. If I'd had another £5k to spend at the time then it would've been another Griff.
If you prefer the looks of the Griff and you're happy to pay the premium they command over a similar spec/quality Chim then that's the one to go for.
This time round I went for a Chim for the simple reason that I got a much nicer example for my budget. If I'd had another £5k to spend at the time then it would've been another Griff.
If you prefer the looks of the Griff and you're happy to pay the premium they command over a similar spec/quality Chim then that's the one to go for.
Edited by swanny71 on Wednesday 29th May 13:37
jdmTurbo said:
when you say there near enough the same car, are we talking exactly same parts (bar the visually obvious), or just in dimensions, driving experience etc.
Almost exactly but not everything is the same. Griff prices will almost certainly remain at a premium so if you do sell you should recoup the difference.As Swanny has said if you prefer the Griff you should start narrowing your search to model (500 serp/500 pre serp/450 (there are a couple)/430/400 or maybe an LS conversion? Then look at colour combinations - what colour exterior and interior do you prefer, do you want standard or modded and then start looking at least with an idea. If you are open minded then just scour PH as there are a fair few on the classifieds. Go to a dealer a drive a few as they are now getting on and very few will be as they came out of the factory with all sorts of mods, specifically dampers/springs, brakes and a few engine/electrical upgrades at least.
When you are a bit nearer deciding I suggest you take a Griff owner with you (you will get volunteers) and keep a sensible head. Not easy as you will find out when you drive the first one.
Go along to your local TVRCC meet and come to the Growl.
We had a Chimp some years back and now have 2 Griffs (saw the light) - a 500 and a precat and they are very different beasts to drive.
Judging by your PH name you must have an Alfa - we've just got a 159. Very similar soul to the TVR. Did look at a BMW but it was at best bland in comparison and the Alfa is way better to drive.
FFG
im happy with a few mild upgrades, so thats not a problem.
forgive my ignorance, whats serp?
how reliable are the engines? i mainly hear of electrical woes with tvr's (thou could be a myth).
seems the one to have is the griff 500, thou am sure they're all great. would ideally be looking for the top hp one which i assume is the 500(?) to get my kicks (having come from 400-500hp japanese cars).
forgive my ignorance, whats serp?
how reliable are the engines? i mainly hear of electrical woes with tvr's (thou could be a myth).
seems the one to have is the griff 500, thou am sure they're all great. would ideally be looking for the top hp one which i assume is the 500(?) to get my kicks (having come from 400-500hp japanese cars).
jdmTurbo said:
I have my heart set on a griff, but if the chim is better all round car i may have to reevaluate.
The only real difference is the price.IIRC some of the very early Chims were set up slightly softer than the Griffs when they left the factory but that didn't last long. Besides, most will have or need a new set of dampers by now. So, basically, the Chimaera is a Griff with an even bigger boot. Weight difference is negligible and there are no differences in power or handling for a given setup.
There's no doubt the Griff is the icon of the two, plus it still has a huge boot by sports car standards and an equally usable roof. But, the Chimaera is far more numerous (and hence easier to find a good one) and probably the best part of £3k cheaper like-for-like.
Neither is particularly likely to depreciate. I guess the Griff is marginally more likely to start going up in value, but honestly I'd say go with whatever best suits your budget. You might find it's a lower capacity and/or tired Griff against a smarter or more powerful Chimaera for the same money.
As for general buying tips, condition is everything and doesn't always tally with price or description. Also check out the various engine options (which is a topic in itself) despite what I said above, the smaller engines - particularly the 4.3 - are often thought of as sweeter than the 500s. The 500 is marginally more prone to issues too.
Be warned if you're used to 500+bhp ricers you might find the standard cars a little slow.
Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 29th May 16:00
Serp is the front end of the engine and these will be post 1995 cars, 1992-1995 are pre serp. Serps have a big long ribbed belt snaking around the pulleys about 1.8m long. The pre-serp have a traditional fan belt around teh alternator only.
I would guess a 500 would best suit as these can be more easily modded for more power or maybe an LS conversion if you can find one.
Never been in a 500bhp Jap car so no idea how quick they may be but 300+ in a Griff/Chim feels quick enough as they only weigh a shade over 1000kg, especially with the roof off and the noise.
FFG
I would guess a 500 would best suit as these can be more easily modded for more power or maybe an LS conversion if you can find one.
Never been in a 500bhp Jap car so no idea how quick they may be but 300+ in a Griff/Chim feels quick enough as they only weigh a shade over 1000kg, especially with the roof off and the noise.
FFG
im sure ill be happy with standard power, as you say in a car that weighs 1ton, am sure its plenty in terms of power to weight. anyway, i think ive had my time spending money on upgrades, fancy something a little different, simpler and smaller, as this will be a weekend only car, dry weather mostly and used on the B roads. ive no interest in top speeds, anything quick 0-100mph is fine by me.
i have been also considering the S1 elise (again more of a following than a S2), but i do really feel 120-160hp from one of those really wont keep me involved for long thou is likely to handle a little better?
do people ever track these tvr's much? how on earth do they deal with noise restrictions from most tracks, ha?
i have been also considering the S1 elise (again more of a following than a S2), but i do really feel 120-160hp from one of those really wont keep me involved for long thou is likely to handle a little better?
do people ever track these tvr's much? how on earth do they deal with noise restrictions from most tracks, ha?
by now, most cars will have had some fettling done, and brakes/bearings/bushes/shocks will have been done to a greater or lesser extent, and whilst not THAT expensive in parts, labour can cost a few bob to bring one that has not been maintained up to a decent standard
to put it into context parts costs are around the following (depends on where you buy the bits from of course)
bushes 300
suspension bolts 150
shocks 400 to stupid
discs and pads 200
wheel bearings 200
ball flints 100
replace that lot (say 1300) and it will cover the majority of the wearable driveline parts that cause most issues.
if you can do that yourself, fine, if not, then id say2/3 days labour on top at 300 per day or so.
other elements which get expensive quickly are noisy diff, gearbox ....a diff rebuild is 400, gearbox about the same (depends on whats broke of course).
these are fundamentally simple cars, which are (apart from some mad wiring ) simple to work on.
to put it into context parts costs are around the following (depends on where you buy the bits from of course)
bushes 300
suspension bolts 150
shocks 400 to stupid
discs and pads 200
wheel bearings 200
ball flints 100
replace that lot (say 1300) and it will cover the majority of the wearable driveline parts that cause most issues.
if you can do that yourself, fine, if not, then id say2/3 days labour on top at 300 per day or so.
other elements which get expensive quickly are noisy diff, gearbox ....a diff rebuild is 400, gearbox about the same (depends on whats broke of course).
these are fundamentally simple cars, which are (apart from some mad wiring ) simple to work on.
Nowt much to choose between the two - in the early days the Chimaera was said to be the better handler as its slightly softer set up suited the relatively lightweight car better, but as said if you're still runnnig the original suspension on these you will want to replace it anyway. More to the point is that the roof is easier to get in and out of the Chimaera's boot, and if you plan on high speed antics the Chim's shape with the longer tail is more stable aerodynamically while the Griff would need aftermarket front winglets & a rear diffuser negating the perceived advantage of its 'cleaner' shape. Oh, and if you want one that's not over 20 years old you have only one engine to choose from - the 500. Personally I think it's not the best combination with the car and I view the 4.x variants as much nicer, but there you go. 
For some reason the UK mags in later days have always concentrated on the Griff as the 'icon', being chiefly responsible for the price difference in the market IMO. Over here it's the Chimaera that got the most column inches by far, when it came out it was hailed as the best TVR so far as it addressed some of the criticisms aimed at the Griff (handling/ride, boot space, rear end styling) and was considered the (slightly) more resolved car overall. We never got the Cerbera here and the Speed Six cars didn't arrive until 2003 so the Chimaera remained the marque's highest profile car for a decade...
For some reason the UK mags in later days have always concentrated on the Griff as the 'icon', being chiefly responsible for the price difference in the market IMO. Over here it's the Chimaera that got the most column inches by far, when it came out it was hailed as the best TVR so far as it addressed some of the criticisms aimed at the Griff (handling/ride, boot space, rear end styling) and was considered the (slightly) more resolved car overall. We never got the Cerbera here and the Speed Six cars didn't arrive until 2003 so the Chimaera remained the marque's highest profile car for a decade...
jdmTurbo said:
im sure ill be happy with standard power, as you say in a car that weighs 1ton, am sure its plenty in terms of power to weight. anyway, i think ive had my time spending money on upgrades, fancy something a little different, simpler and smaller, as this will be a weekend only car, dry weather mostly and used on the B roads. ive no interest in top speeds, anything quick 0-100mph is fine by me.
i have been also considering the S1 elise (again more of a following than a S2), but i do really feel 120-160hp from one of those really wont keep me involved for long thou is likely to handle a little better?
do people ever track these tvr's much? how on earth do they deal with noise restrictions from most tracks, ha?
I track mine, and get regularly slaughtered by the 400 bhp 4WD jap stuff. It's the handling that lets most TVRs down in comparison, and hence the ability to leave a corner quickly. So the oriental machinery catches me in the corners nips past me on the straight.i have been also considering the S1 elise (again more of a following than a S2), but i do really feel 120-160hp from one of those really wont keep me involved for long thou is likely to handle a little better?
do people ever track these tvr's much? how on earth do they deal with noise restrictions from most tracks, ha?
If you want a track day car and want to be seriously quick, buy a Caterfield or an Exige, or stay with a Scooby etc.
If you want a great open top road car that will challenge you on the track, and have everyone admiring the car, buy a TVR
jdmTurbo said:
forgive my ignorance, whats serp?
how reliable are the engines? i mainly hear of electrical woes with tvr's (thou could be a myth).
seems the one to have is the griff 500, thou am sure they're all great. would ideally be looking for the top hp one which i assume is the 500(?) to get my kicks (having come from 400-500hp japanese cars).
Serp - serpentine, because of the serpentine route the belt takes around the pulleys (as per FFG).how reliable are the engines? i mainly hear of electrical woes with tvr's (thou could be a myth).
seems the one to have is the griff 500, thou am sure they're all great. would ideally be looking for the top hp one which i assume is the 500(?) to get my kicks (having come from 400-500hp japanese cars).
Mine had electrical problems twice in 2 years, however at this age the condition of the chassis is more important IMHO.
As to similarity, my understanding is that if you undid all the bolts, you could lift the body off one and put it on the other.
Plenty of news on here about TVR meets, events and track days, maybe go along to one and start to get a feel for the cars? Most owners will be more than happy to chat!
TOV!E said:
I would agree with flip flop griff on most things he is saying, apart from the Griff being better looking, clearly the sales figures tell a different story......
Chim was cheaper no? ...plus griff production was halted for a while so there would be a differential in numbers produced, and therefore sold rigga said:
Chim was cheaper no?
Not in the same spec - a Chim 4.3 was the same as or more than a Griff 4.3 the year before, and a Chim 500 was always the same price as a Griff 500 IIRC...As for the 'cheaper' 4.0 etc - if you have £30K for a weekend car £35K won't be much of a stretch, the people who bought theirs new or nearly new invariably say that they drove the different engine versions and felt a 4.0 or 4.5 was more than enough for them.
rigga said:
...plus griff production was halted for a while so there would be a differential in numbers produced, and therefore sold
The telling thing is that all the time that both were sold next to each other, the Chim outsold the Griff 3:1. That's most probably where the price difference comes from - if you ask 10 TVR people about their preference - Chim or Griff - the opinion will be split right down the middle so similar numbers of punters are chasing far fewer cars in case of the Griff. Supply and demand I'd say if you don't have an overwhelming desire to own one over the other, a 450 Chim will probably be the most useable and risk-free purchase - do check the chassis though and assume it will need at least an outrigger replacement now or soon unless proven otherwise... especially the 1997-1999 years are infamous for chassis corrosion.
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 30th May 14:12
900T-R said:
The telling thing is that all the time that both were sold next to each other, the Chim outsold the Griff 3:1. That's most probably where the price difference comes from - if you ask 10 TVR people about their preference - Chim or Griff - the opinion will be split right down the middle so similar numbers of punters are chasing far fewer cars in case of the Griff. Supply and demand
I'd say if you don't have an overwhelming desire to own one over the other, a 450 Chim will probably be the most useable and risk-free purchase - do check the chassis though and assume it will need at least an outrigger replacement now or soon unless proven otherwise... especially the 1997-1999 years are infamous for chassis corrosion.
Griff 500's outsold Chim 500's (same price)I'd say if you don't have an overwhelming desire to own one over the other, a 450 Chim will probably be the most useable and risk-free purchase - do check the chassis though and assume it will need at least an outrigger replacement now or soon unless proven otherwise... especially the 1997-1999 years are infamous for chassis corrosion.
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 30th May 14:12
When Chim production started there were 4.0 and 4.3 chims - and only Griff 500's.. (and were cheaper, and marktedd as more of a soft option / tourer. (not true, but that's marketing)
ie marketing led. New to TVR?. get an entry level 4.0 chim, then the salesmen could get you to trade up for more power , chim 4.3, or later 4.5, and then when you could 'handle it 'griff 500' - slightly tongue in cheek. and of course then on to a Cerbera...
Edited by BJWoods on Thursday 30th May 21:16
BJWoods said:
When Chim production started there were 4.0 and 4.3 chims - and no Griffs
Edited for accuracy. RHD 4.x Griff production was stopped to start Chim production and turn out a few LHD Griffs (4.x with cats); as such, the Chim had the same engine choices as the Griff the year before (or the export Griffs for that matter), while the latter was being prepared to take the forthcoming AJP engine. As we all know, that didn't come to fruition hence the introduction of the 500 in September.My 4.3 Chim, being first registered June 11th, 1993, actually was the biggest and baddest TVR one could get when it was ordered/delivered.
As a tidbit, one of Blackpool's sales staff once (AutoRAI 2005, Amsterdam at the TVR/Morgan stand) told me that the Chim 500 was never planned, it came about due to customers asking for the 5 litre in the Chim body...
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 31st May 07:57
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