Battery or charging problem?
Discussion
Spotted a few drips of liquid under my Chim 450 today in an unusual place. Turned out to be battery acid coming from the battery vent tube inside the nsf wheel arch. Any ideas? Alternator fault overcharging the battery perhaps?
Grateful for any help 'cos this is a new one for me.....
Grateful for any help 'cos this is a new one for me.....
noisynorton said:
Spotted a few drips of liquid under my Chim 450 today in an unusual place. Turned out to be battery acid coming from the battery vent tube inside the nsf wheel arch. Any ideas? Alternator fault overcharging the battery perhaps?
Grateful for any help 'cos this is a new one for me.....
seen that tube ,how does it connect to the battery.Grateful for any help 'cos this is a new one for me.....
OK, I've put this one to bed. Checked the battery voltage with the engine running, pretty steady between 13.5 & 13.8V irrespective of rpm so that looks fine. Checked my Accumate, max voltage 13.9 so again seems OK. Time to pull the battery (Hell's teeth what a pain - if I ever do a full rebuild the electrics sure aren't staying there!) and it's a good job I did. Some acid had blown out of a couple of the filler caps and the ends of the battery case were bulging so a big-time failure was on the way. Sticker on the battery stated "charge by November 2006 if not fitted" so it's at least 7 years old, probably more, so it's lasted pretty well. Interestingly, no starting problems or symptoms apart from the acid spill from the breather. Moral of the story - don't ignore anything unusual.
One of the replies to my original post asked about the battery breather tube, so I've attached a photo which shows how it is attached to the battery. As I understand, all "maintenance free" batteries have vents to allow escape of hydrogen which is a by-product of charging. How much is released I have no idea, but hydrogen is b***** inflammable and the last thing I'd want is a load of explosive gas in a passenger footwell full of relays and other electrical gubbins. I think this could be an important safety issue if the breather tube is not fitted.
The new Bosch battery I fitted has two vent ports and the safety instructions stated at least one of these must be left open. One bung was supplied with the battery and fortunately the breather tube from the old battery fitted the vent ports on the new one. Threading the breather through the hole in the bulkhead was a real sod, but what job on a TVR isn't?
One of the replies to my original post asked about the battery breather tube, so I've attached a photo which shows how it is attached to the battery. As I understand, all "maintenance free" batteries have vents to allow escape of hydrogen which is a by-product of charging. How much is released I have no idea, but hydrogen is b***** inflammable and the last thing I'd want is a load of explosive gas in a passenger footwell full of relays and other electrical gubbins. I think this could be an important safety issue if the breather tube is not fitted.
The new Bosch battery I fitted has two vent ports and the safety instructions stated at least one of these must be left open. One bung was supplied with the battery and fortunately the breather tube from the old battery fitted the vent ports on the new one. Threading the breather through the hole in the bulkhead was a real sod, but what job on a TVR isn't?
noisynorton said:
OK, I've put this one to bed. Checked the battery voltage with the engine running, pretty steady between 13.5 & 13.8V irrespective of rpm so that looks fine. Checked my Accumate, max voltage 13.9 so again seems OK. Time to pull the battery (Hell's teeth what a pain - if I ever do a full rebuild the electrics sure aren't staying there!) and it's a good job I did. Some acid had blown out of a couple of the filler caps and the ends of the battery case were bulging so a big-time failure was on the way. Sticker on the battery stated "charge by November 2006 if not fitted" so it's at least 7 years old, probably more, so it's lasted pretty well. Interestingly, no starting problems or symptoms apart from the acid spill from the breather. Moral of the story - don't ignore anything unusual.
One of the replies to my original post asked about the battery breather tube, so I've attached a photo which shows how it is attached to the battery. As I understand, all "maintenance free" batteries have vents to allow escape of hydrogen which is a by-product of charging. How much is released I have no idea, but hydrogen is b***** inflammable and the last thing I'd want is a load of explosive gas in a passenger footwell full of relays and other electrical gubbins. I think this could be an important safety issue if the breather tube is not fitted.
The new Bosch battery I fitted has two vent ports and the safety instructions stated at least one of these must be left open. One bung was supplied with the battery and fortunately the breather tube from the old battery fitted the vent ports on the new one. Threading the breather through the hole in the bulkhead was a real sod, but what job on a TVR isn't?
My original one was the same... had to replace.One of the replies to my original post asked about the battery breather tube, so I've attached a photo which shows how it is attached to the battery. As I understand, all "maintenance free" batteries have vents to allow escape of hydrogen which is a by-product of charging. How much is released I have no idea, but hydrogen is b***** inflammable and the last thing I'd want is a load of explosive gas in a passenger footwell full of relays and other electrical gubbins. I think this could be an important safety issue if the breather tube is not fitted.
The new Bosch battery I fitted has two vent ports and the safety instructions stated at least one of these must be left open. One bung was supplied with the battery and fortunately the breather tube from the old battery fitted the vent ports on the new one. Threading the breather through the hole in the bulkhead was a real sod, but what job on a TVR isn't?
QBee said:
Well done - better find my multimeter!! God knows how you get the battery out of the box......
Getting the box back in again is even more fun...... Just make sure you mark the position of the box on the floor before you take the blasted thing out! See Steve Heath "bible" for more detail.noisynorton said:
QBee said:
Well done - better find my multimeter!! God knows how you get the battery out of the box......
Getting the box back in again is even more fun...... Just make sure you mark the position of the box on the floor before you take the blasted thing out! See Steve Heath "bible" for more detail.noisynorton said:
As I understand, all "maintenance free" batteries have vents to allow escape of hydrogen which is a by-product of charging. How much is released I have no idea, but hydrogen is b***** inflammable and the last thing I'd want is a load of explosive gas in a passenger footwell full of relays and other electrical gubbins. I think this could be an important safety issue if the breather tube is not fitted.
But Hydrogen is also very light and will literally float away so will not sit in the footwell.Anthony, the TVR battery box is a terrible design. Personally, I recommend ditching the original battery box all together.
I made my own box; however, Daz (aka Siliconekid) suggested using a strap, which is easier still. Here's how I would do it now.
Get yourself some thick plywood from any DIY store, some new M10 bolts (about 40mm), small and large washers, a tube of silicone and a battery strap.
1. Cut three wooden bases all the same size. Ensure the bases are about 30-40mm larger than the battery on each side.
2. One of these bases will be fixed directly to the floor. To find the bolt holes, the best thing to do is place one of the bases into position in the footwell, put the battery on top and then shove a marker through the holes underneath. Also, position the base slightly to one side to allow room for the ECU. Once done, drill holes in the base large enough to accommodate the bolt thread. Position the nylon battery strap underneath the holes you've just drilled and carefully drill holes in the strap large enough to allow you to 'squeeze' the M10 bolt though.
3. Before you fix the first base to the floor, use it to mark the position of the bolt holes on the second base.
4. Now fix the first base (with the smaller holes) to the pax foot well, with the strap underneath. In the footwell, fit a washer and push the bolt through the floor. Underneath, fit a larger washer and fit the nut. Before fitting the nut, use plenty of silicone in the hole to seal from moisture. Tighten the nuts up tight. The cheap mild steel washer underneath will bend into the shape of the floor. You should now have a base with a strap that is pretty secure.
5. Using a spaded drill bit, drill larger holes in the second base. The holes will need to be large enough to accommodate the bolt head and washer that are protruding from the first base. Once done, check for fit before securing. IF, the bolts are flush and do not protrude, you can get away without fitting a third base. If not, mark the bolt holes on the third base in the same way as before.
6. Before you fit the final base to accommodate the battery, place the battery on top and use some of the spare plywood to make a bead around the edge. Screw the bead down. This will stop the battery from sliding about.
7. Simply secure the additional bases using decent wood screws. 6-8 screws will be more than adequate.
8. Slot the battery into the final beaded base and secure the strap over the top. Job done.
A 'basic' job...
I reckon it would take you about and hour with a drill/ driver and a jigsaw. I sprayed mine black before fitting. HTH.
I made my own box; however, Daz (aka Siliconekid) suggested using a strap, which is easier still. Here's how I would do it now.
Get yourself some thick plywood from any DIY store, some new M10 bolts (about 40mm), small and large washers, a tube of silicone and a battery strap.
1. Cut three wooden bases all the same size. Ensure the bases are about 30-40mm larger than the battery on each side.
2. One of these bases will be fixed directly to the floor. To find the bolt holes, the best thing to do is place one of the bases into position in the footwell, put the battery on top and then shove a marker through the holes underneath. Also, position the base slightly to one side to allow room for the ECU. Once done, drill holes in the base large enough to accommodate the bolt thread. Position the nylon battery strap underneath the holes you've just drilled and carefully drill holes in the strap large enough to allow you to 'squeeze' the M10 bolt though.
3. Before you fix the first base to the floor, use it to mark the position of the bolt holes on the second base.
4. Now fix the first base (with the smaller holes) to the pax foot well, with the strap underneath. In the footwell, fit a washer and push the bolt through the floor. Underneath, fit a larger washer and fit the nut. Before fitting the nut, use plenty of silicone in the hole to seal from moisture. Tighten the nuts up tight. The cheap mild steel washer underneath will bend into the shape of the floor. You should now have a base with a strap that is pretty secure.
5. Using a spaded drill bit, drill larger holes in the second base. The holes will need to be large enough to accommodate the bolt head and washer that are protruding from the first base. Once done, check for fit before securing. IF, the bolts are flush and do not protrude, you can get away without fitting a third base. If not, mark the bolt holes on the third base in the same way as before.
6. Before you fit the final base to accommodate the battery, place the battery on top and use some of the spare plywood to make a bead around the edge. Screw the bead down. This will stop the battery from sliding about.
7. Simply secure the additional bases using decent wood screws. 6-8 screws will be more than adequate.
8. Slot the battery into the final beaded base and secure the strap over the top. Job done.
A 'basic' job...
I reckon it would take you about and hour with a drill/ driver and a jigsaw. I sprayed mine black before fitting. HTH.
Edited by chris1972 on Monday 3rd June 11:08
over_the_hill said:
But Hydrogen is also very light and will literally float away so will not sit in the footwell.
...so nothing to worry about then? That's what they said about the Hindenburg. How about when the car is closed up in the garage with a battery charger connected? For the sake of fitting a breather tube I'm not prepared to take the risk, however minimal it might be. noisynorton said:
...so nothing to worry about then? That's what they said about the Hindenburg. How about when the car is closed up in the garage with a battery charger connected? For the sake of fitting a breather tube I'm not prepared to take the risk, however minimal it might be.
On my old old Audi A6, the battery was huge (like a truck battery). It sat in the spare wheel well with no issues and no breathing pipe.chris1972 said:
On my old old Audi A6, the battery was huge (like a truck battery). It sat in the spare wheel well with no issues and no breathing pipe.
Maybe, but it would have had a breather tube fitted when it was built. If there's "no issues" with hydrogen in confined spaces, why did Audi bother? Or Porsche? Or TVR? Or any other car with a battery in an enclosed space? I accept the risk is minimal, but fitting a simple tube is hardly a big deal. However, it's your car, your safety and your choice.
The Hindenburg crossed the Atlantic 39 times "with no issues".....
I'm done with this thread.
noisynorton said:
The Hindenburg crossed the Atlantic 39 times "with no issues".....
I'm done with this thread.
I'm done with this thread.
That's my point. Audi didn't bother with a breather tube and neither did BMW. Both batteries are in the boot. I guess it is because battery technology may have moved on? Oh well each to their own. It isn't exactly changing the direction of the human race of solving global famine which ever way you look at it.My father had one of these in the basement for quite a few years. Detroit Electric
His still had the original glass cased lead/acid batteries though.
I have to admit, while I don't worry about hydrogen in my Chimaera footwell, the constant smell of those batteries charging in my father's basement (I know, hydrogen isn't supposed to have a smell, but something did), is something I will never forget.
He eventually decided to sell it; before it blew the whole family to pieces
His still had the original glass cased lead/acid batteries though.
I have to admit, while I don't worry about hydrogen in my Chimaera footwell, the constant smell of those batteries charging in my father's basement (I know, hydrogen isn't supposed to have a smell, but something did), is something I will never forget.
He eventually decided to sell it; before it blew the whole family to pieces
Eventually found I had a slow puncture, so took the car to my local indie tyre and battery place. Mentioned the battery acid leak while I was there. They thoroughly tested it, pronounced it charged, but defective. Told the guy how to take it out (thanks guys) and he did a good quick job, replacing it with an Exide Excel, not the 704 on Exide's list, but the 705, which is the 704 with the terminals the correct way round. Cost me £7 more than buying it on the Internet and doing the whole thing myself.
New battery turns the started motor over three times faster.
QED.
New battery turns the started motor over three times faster.
QED.
QBee said:
Eventually found I had a slow puncture, so took the car to my local indie tyre and battery place. Mentioned the battery acid leak while I was there. They thoroughly tested it, pronounced it charged, but defective. Told the guy how to take it out (thanks guys) and he did a good quick job, replacing it with an Exide Excel, not the 704 on Exide's list, but the 705, which is the 704 with the terminals the correct way round. Cost me £7 more than buying it on the Internet and doing the whole thing myself.
New battery turns the started motor over three times faster.
QED.
A result!New battery turns the started motor over three times faster.
QED.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff